a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

Got them off of EBay and got great service, fash shipping, and good followup from the vendor on my inquiries.

I installed new Taylor 10.4 plug wires and platinum plugs last night. Easy install but kind of a pain having to remove intake elbow, throttle body, oil fill tube, spark plugs and also disconnect intercooler piping, intake coolant line, oil filler tube hoses, one electrical connector etc........ I thinks thats it.

The new wires are blue, heavy duty and very nicely built with quality components. They match the length of the stock wires - all had 90 degree plug connectors - at the coil end 2 were straight connectors and 2 were 45 degree connecters. Apparently, if any of the components need to be replaced there are replacement parts for this wire set. They came with a small tube of dielectric silicone and a couple of stickers and a business card.

Today I took the car out for a drive. A note: i had put new standard plugs in about 3000 miles ago so the difference cannot be attributed only to the spark plugs. I noticed a difference! My 7 runs great anyway, but I detected a little more response to my pushing the throttle and perhaps even a little smoother.

Overall I am pleased with these wires - quality, performance, and price. In addition, considering how they are built, they are worth the investment as they will probably last "forever"

Chuck

a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

whoops dual posting - sorry bout that

mitchiemitch1

why plat, plugs?

a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

my understanding is that they can handle more heat using a smaller electrode and ultimately they last longer. in addition, I have heard that they work best in hi-rev engines.

there are plugs made with iridium that can handle even more heat and use an even smaller electrodes and list at about $35 each. why - because iridium is rare having originated from an asteroid that collided with this planet and subsequently killed all the dinosaurs and vegetation - which is now our fossil fuel. hmmmm

chuck

a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

anyone else tried these wires. what was your impression

FD Rey

Pics? I've only used Magnecors 10mm, never heard of your brand before.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

There are Iridium plugs that fit our cars, you can buy them at motorcycle shops. NGK BR9EIX and BR8EIX. Last I checked, they either aren't made in 7 heat range, or the store I went do didn't stock them. Their design isn't a perfect fit, however. You will need a thin-walled socket. A rotary-specific shop sells them, and I don't remember the name. I bought a cheapo socket and ground it myself, it needs to be very thin. These iridium plugs were about the same price as stock platinum plugs. I've intalled them in my car and they seem to wear very well.

The iridium should outlast the platinum, and it makes a better spark also (due to the thinner electrode).

I'm looking into new wires also, any additonal info you can share would be helpful.

-s-

a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

heres a link to the ebay listing for the wires, with pic.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7947399889

chuck

DamonB

What's wrong with stock wires? I buy the stockers over the counter at an import auto parts store for $40 and I think I purchased my last set here on the forum for under $20.

AntiVenom7

DamonB I am sure you know that the thicker the wire the less resistance. Technically, more power should make it to the plug. Anyhow, I am sure the stock spark plug wires are good since I think my car had the originals on @90K+ and were still working decently.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Did you measure the resistance of them? On their website ( http://www.taylorcableproducts.com/oem7.html ) they claim 350 ohm/ foot for the 7mm, 8mm, and 10mm wires, which makes me wonder about the accuracy of that number.

It looks like they also make some other nice products: http://www.taylorvertex.com/hp/

-s-

a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

there is nothing wrong with the stock wires as far as I know. they are probably more than adequate.

my question would be why do racing professionals use "hi performance wires". I would suppose they probably have some pretty hot ignition systems and require a reliable medium to get the spark to the plug and that there are extreme conditions that engines are subjected to while racing.

IMO
electricity traveling thru wire will meet some resistance depending on distance and the conductivity of the wire. what these wires offer is better electron flow with lower resistance, more wire in which to move the charge, better insulation from heat, oil, gas, etc., high quality end connectors, and replaceable components. so in the long run, they probably are just as or more cost effective as your $40 set.

I have a couple of buddies that have worked with nhra professional drag racing crews. I asked about Taylor wires - their comment was - they are one of the best you can buy.

chuck

AntiVenom7

I just bought a set and will put the ohmeter to them when they get here.

i don't have a new set of stockers, but will also measure my old set.

it will be interesting.

DamonB

If it were this simple do why do ignition wires have resistances measured in the dozens or hundreds of ohms? It would be so simple to lower the resistance of the wire to nearly nothing if they wanted to! There's more to spark plug wires (ignition wires) than people understand; the resistance needs to be there for effective noise suppression and that's very important with a computer controlled car.

It is very simple to make a spark plug wire with only a couple Ohms resistance. Why does nobody do that? All the ignition wire manufacturers dumb?

Big, big difference as to the how and why for plug wires on an NHRA dragster running distributors and essentially a non-electronic motor and a "normal" computer controlled daily driven car.

The diameter of spark plug wires has nothing to do with their resistance, it has to do with how thick the jacket is on the outside. People always equate bigger with better and so will pay extra for a wire that is very thick but offers no real improvement in performance other than being fatter.

Here's some info most people probably have never seen:
THE TRUTH ABOUT IGNITION WIRE CONDUCTORS

You can put "fat" ignition wires and "low resistance" ignition wires right up there with the public perception that drilled brake rotors are better. These companies are in business to sell product and if you somehow think some feature is superior they will give it to you so that in your mind you bought something better. As always don't believe all the marketing literature you read.

AntiVenom7

Although being wrong makes me feel somewhat dumb, I have to say that link is very informative. I will have to keep this in mind when I next buy spark wires.

DamonB

Don't think of it as dumb. None of us know better until we get true facts so that makes us ignorant, not dumb.

apexkw

http://www.taylorvertex.com/hp/
is taylors website. but i have a question. basically the wires you have are just the 8mm(spiro or solid core)wires with extra insulation to make them a 10mm wire. so to me it doesnt do anything to make your spark better but it might help with engine/radio noise and interference. is there a way to measure this? i am using the taylor spiro 8mm wires now and they work alot better then my old 10mm solid core magnecors did. i am not talking about noise but rather when i installed them my idle smoothed out. which to me means that not all of the spark was getting through my magnecors. i feel that my magnecors were just at the end of there life cycle so that could attribute to the problems i had with them that made me switch to the taylors. but basically i would assume that since you can order the taylor 10mm wire in a spiro wire you would only possibly see a small benefit of better noise supression with the thicker insulation jacket. so any claims about more power would be totally pointless since its the same core inside.

also i ordered my taylor wires from summit racing for about $40. which is alot cheaper than that ebay add for the same core but a different jacket.

now i have heard from a couple people that the taylor wires are just plan horrible for our cars. and they recommend a msd spark plug wire setup. infact my best friend just recently swithed over to a set. now i know that msd makes a great ignition amp. but are their claims that their spark plugs wires just a bunch of fantastic stories also? can anyone show proof that a taylor/msd/magnecor wire is better then the others?

and for my final question what is the average lifespan of a sparkplug wire? should we be replacing our wires every year? i daily drive my fd when its working lol but i still only average about 6-7,000 miles a year in it. so how often should we be replacing wires because i replaced my magnecors at about 15k and my taylors now have about 9k on them.

DamonB

That's a good question and hard to answer because everything degrades slowly over time without our noticing. It's just like when you replace a battery and notice the starter turns faster, or you replace a bushing and notice an improvement greater than what you expected. Unless we're willing to put brand new wires on for a week or two and then take them off and trade them for a different brand new set we can't say for certain if our perceived improvement is honestly due to different wire brands or just new wires.

I put wires on my car every year just because they are cheap. I always notice a slight improvement in idle quality so I assume the wires do age but I was averaging 15,000 miles a year and running the car very hard every other weekend.

As for sheilding the silicone jacket doesn't contribute to that. Most of the shielding comes from the spiral winding of the conductor around a core material. Any current moving through a wire creates a magnetic field which radiates in a perpendicular direction to the current flowing from point A to point B. Clamp on amp meters use this property to measure current flow in a wire without actually touching the conductor; they just measure the strength of the field around the wire. I'm somewhat over my head but my understanding is if we wind the wire into a spiral then effectively the conductor itself is always perpendicular to the direction of the current between points A and B and rather than the field radiating out from the wire it will tend to radiate along the length of the wire itself.

Ohms law states that if we lower the resistance we get more current flow. With increased current flow we get a stronger field around the wire. A stronger field around the wire means greater opportunity for interference. So in fact we would like our ignition cables to have as much resistance as they can and yet still allow enough current for a spark. Since ignition systems operate at hundreds (thousands?) of volts and few amps it's perfectly fine to have a lot of resistance in the wires. Once we have a strong enough current brought to the plug to light the charge in the engine any additional current is wasted and is making your coil worker harder than it needs to. It's like swatting a fly with a Buick. If the ignition system is strong enough to light the fuel then it needs no improvement. This explains why there is no horsepower improvement in plug wires as long as they were adequate to light the fuel in the first place and also why it is easy to kill coils by "improving" the ignition system.

Two or more wires running parallel to each other present the greatest opportunity for interference between eachother because their magnetic fields may easily react. If we take those same two wires and tightly twist them together then effectively the wires are no longer parallel to eachother. At every point along the twisted bundle you would see that the wires are actually perpendicular to eachother and this provides much less chance for interference. These effects only become important at high frequencies and that is why things like phone lines or network cable use twisted wires in their bundles.

dis1

Damon is right. The resistance of a plug wire is just a marketing ploy. It has nothing to do with how good the wire is. At one time I thought differently but then educated myself about plug wires. If you look at the stock 7mm NGKs they have very high resistance but many Rotary shops still use them.

As for Taylor/MSD/Magnecor and all the others I have consistently seen good comments on Taylor, Accel and NGK. I recently bought MSD wires and they are of great quality however the wires were not of the correct length. I had to tear them apart and basically make a custom set. I honestly expected more from a company like MSD. Very poor.

As for Magnecor I have seen many complaints of them causing problems, particularly the 10mm ones.

FD3SJesse

does HKS, Blitz, or Apex'i make wires for the FD?

iluvmy3rdgen

HKS is a little overrated. But I don't think any of those 3 make wires. I could be mistaken.

apexkw

Dis1

your absolutely correct about the msd wires. It seems like the put the wrong ends on the wires. the trailings are way to long and the leadings just barely fit. they seem very stout but i still like the solid ends on the taylor wires better. they seem to give a better grip on the coil when installing them.

Damon
i see what you are saying about the life of a plug wire totally depends on your driving style and the weather conditions you live in. and i agree with you on the fact that decent wires are cheap enough to replace as you see fit. but i still cant understand what the point of the 10mm taylor wire is. if the thicker jacket has no other purpose besides the ability for a person to say LOOK i have 10mm wires do you??? then whats the point of them since in essence the are only an 8mm wire. i thought perhaps they made the wires different but it seems not. they seem to be basically the same wire with the same ratings.

here is some brief descriptions from taylors website:

SPIRO-PRO 8mm WIRE SETS- Taylor’s best 8mm high performance import ignition wire available for street or track applications that maximizes fire power without radio interference (RFI). Our Spiro-Wound conductor consists of a high conductivity resistor core, wound with a stainless steel wire and covered with a fluorocarbon silicone outer jacket.

‘409’ PRO RACE WIRE SETS- Taylor’s best 10.4mm high performance wire for street and race applications. Choose the Spiro-Wound Core for today’s Hi-Tech Electronics, Stereos, On-Board Computers, and Electronic Ignition Systems. The ‘409’ ignition wires provide continuous heat protection up to 600-degrees Fahrenheit and features 102,000 volts dielectric strength. With three layers of 100% silicone and a tightly wound, heat treated fiberglass braid, the ‘409’ is the most durable and dependable wire today.

and here is the description from summit racing

409 Pro Wire sets start with Taylor's 8mm wires (available in spiral-wound or solid core) with a silicone inner insulator, fiberglass braid, and a 100 percent pure silicone jacket. Then they add a heat-treated fiberglass mesh skin and a third layer of pure silicone to get a full 10.4mm diameter. Taylor even bonds pure silicone boots directly to the wires. The results are wires that have a 100,000+ volt dielectric strength rating that gets more spark to your plugs.

So basically to me it seems that the 10mm wires are just to say look i got fancy pants like mc hammer. and so long as the dont improve the rfi/emi noise then there is no point to switch to the 10mm over the 8mm. lol basically i am trying to convince myself that there is a reason for buying the 10mm taylors over the 8mm but i cant seem to find that point that will push me over and say yes john buy those wires. if the 10mm worked better on the noise problem i would buy them in a heartbeat.

john

DamonB

I believe it's as simple as that and it's no different from selling any other product on the earth. When the customer percieves that some feature is more valuable then he is willing to pay more for it, even if a performance difference doesn't exist. The customer is still happy because in his mind he got his thicker, "better" wires and he can feel good thinking there are people out there who buy poorer wires than he does. He paid more for a product but it makes him feel good about himself and his choices.

I know nothing about what plug wire manufacturers pay for raw materials but I'd bet the largest expense is in the connectors, boots and conductor itself. They can spend a few extra pennies on an extra thick jacket and then charge a premium for it because the customer thinks it's worth it! Heck, why do things come in fancy printed boxes rather than plain brown paper? Because the box adds to the product's perceived value. They could put it in brown paper and save us money but then we'd see it and say "Look at that cheap POS!"

There's nothing wrong with people buying thick plug wires if they want them (or $200 boost gauges, $5000 wheels, a JDM part that costs twice as much etc) it's only when somebody tries to argue a point that's purely style rather than function there becomes an issue. People don't have to apologize for buying and using what they like but some will argue themselves blue trying to rationalize why what they have is better rather than just saying they bought what they wanted and leave it at that. Look at all the people around here who INSIST that any gauge under $100 is complete garbage!

apexkw

lol so true damon so true!

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

With regards to the resistance of the wires, here's what the service manual says: (pg 389 of the one available at www.iluvmyrx7.com )

Engine Performance/ Specifications/ Ignition System:
"HIGH TENSION WIRE resistance should not exceed 4900 ohms per foot. "

If you increase the gap on your plugs (note: gap is not adjustable on stock plugs), then it's possible that ignition wires with a lower resistance might reduce misfiring at high RPM's, assuming the rest of the ignition system is up to the task. How low of a resistance, and at what RPMs? One would need to cross that bridge when they get there.

-s-