Its Happening!!!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Look what's currently on ebay: Mazda RX-7 in Cars & Trucks | eBay
Automatics
Wide body kits
Lawn ornaments etc....
Nothing worth paying anything for. Years ago you'd see 50 FDs on ebay and 10 would be nice low mileage cars.
Now lets look at autotrader: Mazda RX-7 vehicles for Sale in Charlottesville, VA 22901 - Autotrader
1st: 10 or 20% of the cars are listed by one of our own car flippers allrotor93 which tells you just how few cars are available/listed
2nd: the only real deals are automatics or basket cases
3rd: if you want a nice FD you'll spend 20k plus even if the car has 50k plus miles
Again years ago there would 120 FDs on autotrader and 20 would be good cars that you could buy for 15 to 18k.
Again the supply is down and the prices are up because people want the car and for damn good reason. Is it a rich man's collector like a 911 RS hell no but it's an appreciated collectible car so for once and for all just admit it
The prices are not going down, they are not going sideways they are going up and I expect them to go up 10 or 20% over the next few years. If a car is 20 years old and the price is going up I consider it a collectible.
Automatics
Wide body kits
Lawn ornaments etc....
Nothing worth paying anything for. Years ago you'd see 50 FDs on ebay and 10 would be nice low mileage cars.
Now lets look at autotrader: Mazda RX-7 vehicles for Sale in Charlottesville, VA 22901 - Autotrader
1st: 10 or 20% of the cars are listed by one of our own car flippers allrotor93 which tells you just how few cars are available/listed
2nd: the only real deals are automatics or basket cases
3rd: if you want a nice FD you'll spend 20k plus even if the car has 50k plus miles
Again years ago there would 120 FDs on autotrader and 20 would be good cars that you could buy for 15 to 18k.
Again the supply is down and the prices are up because people want the car and for damn good reason. Is it a rich man's collector like a 911 RS hell no but it's an appreciated collectible car so for once and for all just admit it
The prices are not going down, they are not going sideways they are going up and I expect them to go up 10 or 20% over the next few years. If a car is 20 years old and the price is going up I consider it a collectible.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; Jul 21, 2015 at 05:10 PM.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Great question.
I went to Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds for appraisal/value of a loaded 1995 and I stack the deck with a 35K miles, in Exellent condition and the market value comes at:
$16,316 on KBB
$12,083 on Edmunds
So, to answer your question, I think the later and not that high either, to bring the average car to a significantly higher value status.
A one off good pristine sale, does not influence a whole pack, example:
A Babe Ruth baseball card when he was a rookie, there are only 2 known of and IIRC, I read they are valued at $100K. So, if we reprint them exactly the same, does it means the new cards are worth $100K???
Think here of the untouched FD (Old Babe Ruth Ruth card) vs. the single turbo modified average car (reprints).
I went to Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds for appraisal/value of a loaded 1995 and I stack the deck with a 35K miles, in Exellent condition and the market value comes at:
$16,316 on KBB
$12,083 on Edmunds
So, to answer your question, I think the later and not that high either, to bring the average car to a significantly higher value status.
A one off good pristine sale, does not influence a whole pack, example:
A Babe Ruth baseball card when he was a rookie, there are only 2 known of and IIRC, I read they are valued at $100K. So, if we reprint them exactly the same, does it means the new cards are worth $100K???
Think here of the untouched FD (Old Babe Ruth Ruth card) vs. the single turbo modified average car (reprints).
Anyone have a loaded excellent condition 95 for 16k? If so it will be sold by the end of today if you do nothing other than list it on this forum LOL
Be as it may, that it is appreciating in value (very little IMHO), is has lost more than 50% of it's original value, so from an investment point, it is a losing one.
At best, no one will brake even, even if it is the most pristine example.
Again, I love my car not from the collectible point of view or the appreciating one either.
I am a rotor head and the car is awesome at the track and on the show circuit too.
Did the HPDS track for 7 years and it was fun spanking most BMW, P-cars and others.
Now I just finished rebuilding/painting it for the show circuit, let see what it does there.
When it hits a Million, maybe I will sell it. ;-)
The point I tried to make was to answer the post before, as far as the value of the market at which the car is being sold, not listed.
At best, no one will brake even, even if it is the most pristine example.
Again, I love my car not from the collectible point of view or the appreciating one either.
I am a rotor head and the car is awesome at the track and on the show circuit too.
Did the HPDS track for 7 years and it was fun spanking most BMW, P-cars and others.
Now I just finished rebuilding/painting it for the show circuit, let see what it does there.
When it hits a Million, maybe I will sell it. ;-)
The point I tried to make was to answer the post before, as far as the value of the market at which the car is being sold, not listed.
Last edited by RedBaronII; Jul 21, 2015 at 05:27 PM.
Can someone please enter their FD into a well known auction so we can see what it brings? lol
Here is the plan.. we need a forum member with a low mileage r2 and 3 forum members, one of which has about 40k laying around. The bid against each other until one (the guy with the 40k) wins the bidding at $35k (extra 5k for fees and such). BAM we set the new market for the FD. lol
JK I like where we are with the prices now. If it gets too high, regular folks like us can't afford to buy one to enjoy it. Then we will see the demise of this forum because we, regular folks, keep this forum alive. How many multi-millions have time to be on the forum? (im sure there are a few on this forum but you know what im saying)
Here is the plan.. we need a forum member with a low mileage r2 and 3 forum members, one of which has about 40k laying around. The bid against each other until one (the guy with the 40k) wins the bidding at $35k (extra 5k for fees and such). BAM we set the new market for the FD. lol
JK I like where we are with the prices now. If it gets too high, regular folks like us can't afford to buy one to enjoy it. Then we will see the demise of this forum because we, regular folks, keep this forum alive. How many multi-millions have time to be on the forum? (im sure there are a few on this forum but you know what im saying)
All these threads do is try to jack up pricing on the forum. I know of 3 FD's locally for sale for less than $10k, and they would have been for sale at that price for the last 5 or 6 years. The market may be going up slowly, but so aren't new car prices all together. So fed proces are relatively the same. If anything, they are getting worse due to supra, nsx, and other 90's cars pricing increasing at a faster rate.
I'm sure there will be a few high 20's / low 30's unicorns, but that doesn't mean everyone should go start grabbing up cheap FD's and expecting to turn a profit.
I'm sure there will be a few high 20's / low 30's unicorns, but that doesn't mean everyone should go start grabbing up cheap FD's and expecting to turn a profit.
Haha, I understand a lot of people probably don't know my back ground with these cars. For 4 years of my life I made my living solely on buying and selling FDs. While I only buy 3-4 per year these days, I am still well connected with those moving a lot of them. I just sold my personal R2 for over $20k, and am aware of multiple other FDs that have sold in the same range along with a lot of other 93/94 touring/pep cars selling for $18-20k with 75-100k miles. It is definitely happening.
I don't agree with you, here. Supras, in particular, are going for absurd prices. I'd love to have one, but I cannot pay the FF/GT tax on them. If I could, however, get one for a reasonable price from competing importers (which I feel is a certainty) in the near future, I'd definitely go for it. Even if it's RHD. I'm also betting I'm not the only one that feels this way.
if you already had an opinion on the matter, why did you even bother posing the question? Lol
Gmonsen you can thank Mazda for not having the foresight or research invested to build a reliable car even in stock form. I hate to bust their chops but that is what it boils down to. They swung for a grand slam and came up just a little short and the turbo rotary platform just stands out in a negative light because of that. I admire their pioneering efforts, that no other company was brave enough to attempt, they should be commended for that!
That is the root cause of the poor reputation the engine platform has aquired over the years. For that reason it's become a specialty car that only unique owners and automotive fans have tempted to own. I'm not surprised, in America everyone wants flashy and instant gratification, few accept the tug of war task to keep their car on the road, they'll only do it if it's a Ferrari and at least has the flash. Not to say that it's a huge effort to keep these cars reliable once you're an expert, but in comparison to other competition, they require more attention, knowledge and are much more sensitive.
What I'm trying to say is that I understand why the car is where it's at in its reputation and worth. It's an incredible car, but the turbo rotary design was not perfected. If it had come out as a NA 3 or 4 rotor like your car I bet that the opinions about the car would have been right down the middle (kind of like gen I and IIs), none too harsh but none that worshiped the car either, so it's a tradeoff.
If mazda had come out with a reliable platform and had done more R&D on the turbo rotary, these cars would be selling for more than they did new right now. Imagine with the looks of the FD, the handling and the unique rotary motor, having also reliability that could handle HP upgrades with the best of the competition! The following, prices and collectibility would have been through the roof.
It's the uniqueness of the rotary that had people shy about owning one, and the unreliable reputation that followed sealed the deal that they are unfamilar with it and don't want to or cant afford to deal with such a platform. Bottom line, the reputation is set, Mazda comes out with another rotary and they have their work cut out for them to adjust perception on the platform. If Mercedes came out with a turbo rotary in a new model and it was a reliable and fast car and could be modified easily without a masters degree, I believe it would be well received.
I don't know if anyone else feels the same but this is how I see it, this is the root of what people have really been discussing and disputing over the years.
That is the root cause of the poor reputation the engine platform has aquired over the years. For that reason it's become a specialty car that only unique owners and automotive fans have tempted to own. I'm not surprised, in America everyone wants flashy and instant gratification, few accept the tug of war task to keep their car on the road, they'll only do it if it's a Ferrari and at least has the flash. Not to say that it's a huge effort to keep these cars reliable once you're an expert, but in comparison to other competition, they require more attention, knowledge and are much more sensitive.
What I'm trying to say is that I understand why the car is where it's at in its reputation and worth. It's an incredible car, but the turbo rotary design was not perfected. If it had come out as a NA 3 or 4 rotor like your car I bet that the opinions about the car would have been right down the middle (kind of like gen I and IIs), none too harsh but none that worshiped the car either, so it's a tradeoff.
If mazda had come out with a reliable platform and had done more R&D on the turbo rotary, these cars would be selling for more than they did new right now. Imagine with the looks of the FD, the handling and the unique rotary motor, having also reliability that could handle HP upgrades with the best of the competition! The following, prices and collectibility would have been through the roof.
It's the uniqueness of the rotary that had people shy about owning one, and the unreliable reputation that followed sealed the deal that they are unfamilar with it and don't want to or cant afford to deal with such a platform. Bottom line, the reputation is set, Mazda comes out with another rotary and they have their work cut out for them to adjust perception on the platform. If Mercedes came out with a turbo rotary in a new model and it was a reliable and fast car and could be modified easily without a masters degree, I believe it would be well received.
I don't know if anyone else feels the same but this is how I see it, this is the root of what people have really been discussing and disputing over the years.
Last edited by Snook; Jul 22, 2015 at 11:08 AM.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
All these threads do is try to jack up pricing on the forum. I know of 3 FD's locally for sale for less than $10k, and they would have been for sale at that price for the last 5 or 6 years. The market may be going up slowly, but so aren't new car prices all together. So fed proces are relatively the same. If anything, they are getting worse due to supra, nsx, and other 90's cars pricing increasing at a faster rate.
I'm sure there will be a few high 20's / low 30's unicorns, but that doesn't mean everyone should go start grabbing up cheap FD's and expecting to turn a profit.
I'm sure there will be a few high 20's / low 30's unicorns, but that doesn't mean everyone should go start grabbing up cheap FD's and expecting to turn a profit.
You want to see prices really go up wait until more dealers start picking up low mileage FDs (a dealer in DC has been doing it for years with great success).
Yep lots of cool cars out there going up in value: the FD, e30, 911, NSX, surpa, integra, s2k etc........ nice to be appreciated and in good company
For the naysayers who don't think prices are higher and or that this car is not a collector you must be out of touch or in denial. Open your eyes, ears etc....the evidence is right in front of you.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Gmonsen you can thank Mazda for not having the foresight or research invested to build a reliable car even in stock form. That is the root cause of the poor reputation the engine platform has aquired over the years. For that reason it's become a specialty car that only unique owners and automotive fans have tempted to own. I'm not surprised, in America everyone wants flashy and instant gratification, few accept the tug of war task to keep their car on the road, they'll only do it if it's a Ferrari and at least has the flash. Not to say that it's a huge effort to keep these cars reliable, but in comparison to other competition, they require more attention and knowledge and are much more sensitive.
What I'm trying to say is that I understand why the car is where it's at in its reputation and worth. It's an incredible cars, but the turbo rotary design was not perfected. If it had come out as a NA 3 or 4 rotor like your car I bet that the opinions about the car would have been right down the middle (kind of like gen I and IIs), none too harsh but none that worshiped the car either, so it's a tradeoff.
If mazda had come out with a reliable platform and had done more R&D on the turbo rotary, these cars would be selling for more than they did new right now. Imagine with the looks of the FD, the handling and the unique rotary motor, having also reliability that could handle HP upgrades with the best of the competition! The following, prices and collectibility would have been through the roof.
It's the uniqueness of the rotary that had people shy about owning one, and the unreliable reputation that followed sealed the deal that they are unfamilar with it and don't want to or cant afford to deal with such a platform.
I don't know if this makes sense.
What I'm trying to say is that I understand why the car is where it's at in its reputation and worth. It's an incredible cars, but the turbo rotary design was not perfected. If it had come out as a NA 3 or 4 rotor like your car I bet that the opinions about the car would have been right down the middle (kind of like gen I and IIs), none too harsh but none that worshiped the car either, so it's a tradeoff.
If mazda had come out with a reliable platform and had done more R&D on the turbo rotary, these cars would be selling for more than they did new right now. Imagine with the looks of the FD, the handling and the unique rotary motor, having also reliability that could handle HP upgrades with the best of the competition! The following, prices and collectibility would have been through the roof.
It's the uniqueness of the rotary that had people shy about owning one, and the unreliable reputation that followed sealed the deal that they are unfamilar with it and don't want to or cant afford to deal with such a platform.
I don't know if this makes sense.
IF:
The engine was better/reliable and could make 700 HP easily like the supra and not blow up
The interior was better
The sequential turbo system was more reliable
blah blah blah
The car would be worth more no doubt about it
I'm glad it's a the POS it is so I can afford to DD one and not worry about it LOL
They might be more reliable than they were originally, compare a single turbo car with 100rwhp more to an all stock car(much more reliable and simplistic if done right). Most will have reliability mods and none will be on original motor, plus the knowledge about these cars makes life a lot easier than it was in the 90s I bet. Knowing to replace the fpd to avoid fire, that the temp gauge isnt accurate, that you cant slap on mods without checking boost, ast/radiator may crack and one overheat means engine is toast, that the rats nest can be simplified to be managable - pretty huge insights that curb reliability.
Last edited by Snook; Jul 22, 2015 at 11:33 AM.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Matty,
It's not an unreliable sports car out of the gate compared to most turbo charged sports cars. You wouldn't believe the issues high dollar sports cars like the m3, 911s etc... Hell the 997.2 GT3s are still blowing up and coolant hoses are popping off, clutches are disintegrating etc...etc... The latest one was catching on fire, throwing codes blah blah
The 95 VR R2 I just sold with 17k miles is basically bullet proof to 100k miles if you take car of it. I drove the car 5k miles with ZERO problems. After fixing the dozen small issues the silver base car I have has driven it 8k miles with zero issues (other than it still has an AC leak). Go buy a new GT3 and drive it for 10k miles and see how many little issues you have. The silver car gets decent gas mileage and is a complete hoot to drive (probably have the weight down to 2600 or below). I just bought another touring type FD so I'll likely pull the AC out of this silver car to further get the weight down and it will be my light weight FD. I'd much rather own several FDs than one GT3 to run around town in because they are so much more fun to drive. IMO they also look better and I don't feel like a rich ******* driving one.
I knew guys that tracked there mostly stock FDs for years. They couldn't drive hard when it was hot or over 80 degrees out but otherwise the cars did fine or a lot better than your wifes/moms minivan would do if you took that to a track and held the gas pedal down for 25 minutes.
It's not an unreliable sports car out of the gate compared to most turbo charged sports cars. You wouldn't believe the issues high dollar sports cars like the m3, 911s etc... Hell the 997.2 GT3s are still blowing up and coolant hoses are popping off, clutches are disintegrating etc...etc... The latest one was catching on fire, throwing codes blah blah
The 95 VR R2 I just sold with 17k miles is basically bullet proof to 100k miles if you take car of it. I drove the car 5k miles with ZERO problems. After fixing the dozen small issues the silver base car I have has driven it 8k miles with zero issues (other than it still has an AC leak). Go buy a new GT3 and drive it for 10k miles and see how many little issues you have. The silver car gets decent gas mileage and is a complete hoot to drive (probably have the weight down to 2600 or below). I just bought another touring type FD so I'll likely pull the AC out of this silver car to further get the weight down and it will be my light weight FD. I'd much rather own several FDs than one GT3 to run around town in because they are so much more fun to drive. IMO they also look better and I don't feel like a rich ******* driving one.
I knew guys that tracked there mostly stock FDs for years. They couldn't drive hard when it was hot or over 80 degrees out but otherwise the cars did fine or a lot better than your wifes/moms minivan would do if you took that to a track and held the gas pedal down for 25 minutes.
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,014
Likes: 40
From: CT
i know....i am teasing. my last FD i ripped the hell out of and i have ZERO problems in ten yrs. And by zero i mean none. I changed the oil and beat on it and it loved it.
Having said that i am currently bitter due to my more recent experience which btw i have a fresh set of issues with.
Having said that i am currently bitter due to my more recent experience which btw i have a fresh set of issues with.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
i know....i am teasing. my last FD i ripped the hell out of and i have ZERO problems in ten yrs. And by zero i mean none. I changed the oil and beat on it and it loved it.
Having said that i am currently bitter due to my more recent experience which btw i have a fresh set of issues with.
Having said that i am currently bitter due to my more recent experience which btw i have a fresh set of issues with.
What are the current issues. I know the engine was bad but what's going on now?
Possibly finding out why the engine was bad?
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,014
Likes: 40
From: CT
If I look into the not too distant future of electric cars and low emissions regulations, I see a restriction of engine liter size, and extremely high gas costs, causing most used cars to either be scrapped, or deemed illegal on public roadways; but the RX-7 will be considered 1.3L and thus one of the last great sports cars able to still be driven around without electronic assist / electric conversion! 
Long live the 7!
Long live the 7!
Picking up my 5th FD this weekend, on my b-day so it is set to be a great day.
It was pretty funny coming from a guy who went to great lengths to upgrade the interior and convert the car into more of a GT style car. All to get away from what I believe is its greatest quality, being a true sports car and not offering any apologies for it.
My first reaction is to get annoyed when I see people on forums like this one (and in Facebook groups, where people driving shitbox FCs trying to buy an FD are even worse) arguing that values should remain low because "their buddy's buddy's buddy has a shell for $4k," as if that has any bearing on anything whatsoever.
Ultimately, though, supply and demand will do their thing. It's a limited run sports, it has a following that doesn't seem to be going anywhere (I looked to buy one for many years), and values will eventually rise to the appropriate level.
Ultimately, though, supply and demand will do their thing. It's a limited run sports, it has a following that doesn't seem to be going anywhere (I looked to buy one for many years), and values will eventually rise to the appropriate level.
This is so tiresome. Its why I post so little. Apparently, I cannot brake even with an FD. But, I've got great breaks, so, hey, I can brake even. Give me a break...
I hate my car, because its such a stupid investment. Its not as good as a Supra or S2000. But I really love it anyway. I still have it, but its really such a poor piece of junk.
But, hey, I'm really smart. I've looked at all the ads and know that people don't really sell their FD's for $20,000 or more. They just say they do and ebay marks it sold. They really probably sold them for peanuts. Not $20,000, but maybe more like $12-15,000.
Actually, my FD is a shitbox and breaks all the time and then I spend a bunch of money on it and drive it some more. I wish I had a full race Hyundai. Or a Supra. I really like that design. Its like God took the car and pushed the roof down so far it looks like a chopped and channeled 34 Ford! I like the fact I need a periscope to see out of it. Very cool indeed.
I think I'll sell mine and buy a real car. Maybe I'll get another low mile FD when the prices go back down below $10,000 in a few years.
G
I hate my car, because its such a stupid investment. Its not as good as a Supra or S2000. But I really love it anyway. I still have it, but its really such a poor piece of junk.
But, hey, I'm really smart. I've looked at all the ads and know that people don't really sell their FD's for $20,000 or more. They just say they do and ebay marks it sold. They really probably sold them for peanuts. Not $20,000, but maybe more like $12-15,000.
Actually, my FD is a shitbox and breaks all the time and then I spend a bunch of money on it and drive it some more. I wish I had a full race Hyundai. Or a Supra. I really like that design. Its like God took the car and pushed the roof down so far it looks like a chopped and channeled 34 Ford! I like the fact I need a periscope to see out of it. Very cool indeed.
I think I'll sell mine and buy a real car. Maybe I'll get another low mile FD when the prices go back down below $10,000 in a few years.
G
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 83
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From: Medicine Hat, AB, CA
There were a couple posts in this thread about the 25 year rule. Please know it will definitely lower the value of all 90's Japanese sports cars, FD included. Before the jdm version was available in Canada, I had a lock on one (LHD) that was 18k, this was 10 years ago. At the time it was the lowest priced FD on the market. Now, a similar car would be very similarly priced 10 years later. Yes, there is about a $3-5k premium for LHD, but the value of the LHD cars had to come down to compete. Supply and demand, and your supply is going to go up.
I look at the prices of the cars in the US and lose my mind, they are so much higher. I paid 9k for mine, yes RHD, but with 95k (kms!) and very tastefully modded. (HKS FMIC, HKS FconV, Aragosta coils, Rays MS01 V5 competition's, etc) The car is in wicked shape, very well kept. Good luck finding that kind of value in a USDM car.
Where was I going with this...? Oh hey, beer!
I look at the prices of the cars in the US and lose my mind, they are so much higher. I paid 9k for mine, yes RHD, but with 95k (kms!) and very tastefully modded. (HKS FMIC, HKS FconV, Aragosta coils, Rays MS01 V5 competition's, etc) The car is in wicked shape, very well kept. Good luck finding that kind of value in a USDM car.
Where was I going with this...? Oh hey, beer!
Man I told myself when I saw this thread that I wasn't going to contribute.... but I just can't help myself. 
I’m sorry but the latter is not what matters. Unfortunately or fortunately (depends which side of the line you're on) a vehicle appraisal is based on current for sale ads. Which is very UNLIKE a home appraisal where sold prices are public information and therefore used to come up with a monetary value.
As an example:
If you total your vehicle, you are entitled to a ‘fair market price’ cash payout by your insurance. The way fair market price is determined is by collecting CURRENT for sale ads of accurate comparables. Remember the information comes from the 'for sale ads', in other words asking price. So if the law recognizes the fair market price method for determining a car’s value why would it be any different for us? That easy. It’s not
It is actually common knowledge that if you accept blue book price for a vehicle you are getting ripped off. Pretty much the only people who go by KBB is car dealers on trade ins (who will immediately put your car on the lot and add a few grand to what they gave you), and insurance companies attempting to low ball you (that is until you utter the magic words “I am entitled to fair market price of my vehicle”).
Snook,
You are not thinking like a collector IMO. A collector does not purchase an automobile because of reliability or practicality. As an example I offer my response from a thread just like this a few months back:
Take for example this 1955 VW bus that just recently broke a record by fetching $235,000:
Yes a VW bus... Now lets stop and think about the practicality of the bus
- Unreliable and very finicky. Rule of thumb in owning an air cooled VW (I should know I own one): Is to always carry tools because that car will leave you stranded. Maybe not today, not tomorrow but it WILL leave you stranded without a warning. If you think about it RX-7's don't even come close to that mindset. Yeah blowing engines are common occurrence with us but dammit that Rx-7 with the blown engine will still drive you home!
- Extremely under-powered. Especially with the buses since they came with the same engine as their much smaller counterparts. A 1955 bus came with 30HP! talk about being under-powered. Got 6 friends and wanna go up a hill? Better be in first gear and have two friends push lol... And it supposed to be freakin' van. Major failure in that department
- Sitting in one literally feels like sitting in tin can.
By all accounts an under-powered finicky piece of crap. However, a piece of crap that many love. As it brings nostalgia of family outings, road trips, vacations, and even memories of being broken down on the side of the road that somehow bring a smile today.
VW Bus sells for a groovy $235,000 - Dec. 5, 2014
With that being said, I never prescribed to the notion of it's a rotary and therefore people will be deterred from it in the future. Collectible cars are not about practicality (or in rotary terms reliability) because they are not purchased for everyday drivers. Rather they are purchased because they bring out passion and nostalgia to those that love them.
It already happened just a few days ago:
93 CYM with 109K was just listed on here for $18K on 07-20-15, 07:26 PM & sold on 07-21-15, 11:59 AM for $16.5K. It took 16.5 HOURS to sell!!!. I'm thinking the seller could have gotten asking price if he would have held out for a full 24 hours
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...ellow-1086873/
.
As an example:
If you total your vehicle, you are entitled to a ‘fair market price’ cash payout by your insurance. The way fair market price is determined is by collecting CURRENT for sale ads of accurate comparables. Remember the information comes from the 'for sale ads', in other words asking price. So if the law recognizes the fair market price method for determining a car’s value why would it be any different for us? That easy. It’s not
Gmonsen you can thank Mazda for not having the foresight or research invested to build a reliable car even in stock form. I hate to bust their chops but that is what it boils down to. They swung for a grand slam and came up just a little short and the turbo rotary platform just stands out in a negative light because of that. I admire their pioneering efforts, that no other company was brave enough to attempt, they should be commended for that!
That is the root cause of the poor reputation the engine platform has aquired over the years. For that reason it's become a specialty car that only unique owners and automotive fans have tempted to own. I'm not surprised, in America everyone wants flashy and instant gratification, few accept the tug of war task to keep their car on the road, they'll only do it if it's a Ferrari and at least has the flash. Not to say that it's a huge effort to keep these cars reliable once you're an expert, but in comparison to other competition, they require more attention, knowledge and are much more sensitive.
What I'm trying to say is that I understand why the car is where it's at in its reputation and worth. It's an incredible car, but the turbo rotary design was not perfected. If it had come out as a NA 3 or 4 rotor like your car I bet that the opinions about the car would have been right down the middle (kind of like gen I and IIs), none too harsh but none that worshiped the car either, so it's a tradeoff.
If mazda had come out with a reliable platform and had done more R&D on the turbo rotary, these cars would be selling for more than they did new right now. Imagine with the looks of the FD, the handling and the unique rotary motor, having also reliability that could handle HP upgrades with the best of the competition! The following, prices and collectibility would have been through the roof.
It's the uniqueness of the rotary that had people shy about owning one, and the unreliable reputation that followed sealed the deal that they are unfamilar with it and don't want to or cant afford to deal with such a platform. Bottom line, the reputation is set, Mazda comes out with another rotary and they have their work cut out for them to adjust perception on the platform. If Mercedes came out with a turbo rotary in a new model and it was a reliable and fast car and could be modified easily without a masters degree, I believe it would be well received.
I don't know if anyone else feels the same but this is how I see it, this is the root of what people have really been discussing and disputing over the years.
That is the root cause of the poor reputation the engine platform has aquired over the years. For that reason it's become a specialty car that only unique owners and automotive fans have tempted to own. I'm not surprised, in America everyone wants flashy and instant gratification, few accept the tug of war task to keep their car on the road, they'll only do it if it's a Ferrari and at least has the flash. Not to say that it's a huge effort to keep these cars reliable once you're an expert, but in comparison to other competition, they require more attention, knowledge and are much more sensitive.
What I'm trying to say is that I understand why the car is where it's at in its reputation and worth. It's an incredible car, but the turbo rotary design was not perfected. If it had come out as a NA 3 or 4 rotor like your car I bet that the opinions about the car would have been right down the middle (kind of like gen I and IIs), none too harsh but none that worshiped the car either, so it's a tradeoff.
If mazda had come out with a reliable platform and had done more R&D on the turbo rotary, these cars would be selling for more than they did new right now. Imagine with the looks of the FD, the handling and the unique rotary motor, having also reliability that could handle HP upgrades with the best of the competition! The following, prices and collectibility would have been through the roof.
It's the uniqueness of the rotary that had people shy about owning one, and the unreliable reputation that followed sealed the deal that they are unfamilar with it and don't want to or cant afford to deal with such a platform. Bottom line, the reputation is set, Mazda comes out with another rotary and they have their work cut out for them to adjust perception on the platform. If Mercedes came out with a turbo rotary in a new model and it was a reliable and fast car and could be modified easily without a masters degree, I believe it would be well received.
I don't know if anyone else feels the same but this is how I see it, this is the root of what people have really been discussing and disputing over the years.
You are not thinking like a collector IMO. A collector does not purchase an automobile because of reliability or practicality. As an example I offer my response from a thread just like this a few months back:
Originally Posted by Montego
Take for example this 1955 VW bus that just recently broke a record by fetching $235,000:
Yes a VW bus... Now lets stop and think about the practicality of the bus
- Unreliable and very finicky. Rule of thumb in owning an air cooled VW (I should know I own one): Is to always carry tools because that car will leave you stranded. Maybe not today, not tomorrow but it WILL leave you stranded without a warning. If you think about it RX-7's don't even come close to that mindset. Yeah blowing engines are common occurrence with us but dammit that Rx-7 with the blown engine will still drive you home!
- Extremely under-powered. Especially with the buses since they came with the same engine as their much smaller counterparts. A 1955 bus came with 30HP! talk about being under-powered. Got 6 friends and wanna go up a hill? Better be in first gear and have two friends push lol... And it supposed to be freakin' van. Major failure in that department
- Sitting in one literally feels like sitting in tin can.
By all accounts an under-powered finicky piece of crap. However, a piece of crap that many love. As it brings nostalgia of family outings, road trips, vacations, and even memories of being broken down on the side of the road that somehow bring a smile today.
VW Bus sells for a groovy $235,000 - Dec. 5, 2014
With that being said, I never prescribed to the notion of it's a rotary and therefore people will be deterred from it in the future. Collectible cars are not about practicality (or in rotary terms reliability) because they are not purchased for everyday drivers. Rather they are purchased because they bring out passion and nostalgia to those that love them.
93 CYM with 109K was just listed on here for $18K on 07-20-15, 07:26 PM & sold on 07-21-15, 11:59 AM for $16.5K. It took 16.5 HOURS to sell!!!. I'm thinking the seller could have gotten asking price if he would have held out for a full 24 hours
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...ellow-1086873/
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Last edited by Montego; Jul 22, 2015 at 03:53 PM.