I realize the Mid Pipe is a significant improvement over even a high flow cat but to what extent?

How bad is not having a MP goint to hold me back?

I'm having installed (engine wise only here) :

Intake, CB, HF Cat, DP, Large SMIC (Pettit Cool Charge 3) , PowerFC , Perf Fuel Pump, 1300cc secondaries, Rising rate Fuel Reg, silicone vocuum hoses, fluidyne rad, power pulley, and its Street ported. STILL STOCK TURBOS.

[I've had my FD for 9 years but these will be my first mods next to a K&N air filter...] I have other mods now finished not included... Reliability, Suspension, Clutch, Flywheel, Gauges.

I want to know how much having the HF Cat instead of the MP is holding me back from my potential. I can live with 10-20 HP and probably a little more. I just don't want the car sounding that obnoxious as I'll be driving it frequently.

Also while I'm asking : is the 2nd oil cooler (mines a Touring) that necessary or recommended strongly? And will larger sequential twins help that much? I'm reluctant to leave the stock sequential setup and don't need >400 RWHP.

Thanks.

 

hi, i am unsure of this, but i don't think having a new sequential system is that easy. i am not sure if they even sell aftermarket sequentials. i have only seen non sequentials.

edit
that is to answer one of your questions. i don't know the answer to the rest.

 

This might help.. http://www.efini.net/hpcomparo.htm Just make sure you have a good computer/fuel

 

thats a big *** diffrence

 

That's Wael El-Dasher's website--very sweet heavily modded cym. I'm familiar with the car and the owner, and I'm pretty sure (not positive) that he was running a single turbo for those dyno charts, which makes them completely invalid for the comparison at hand

I feel I'm pretty qualified to respond on this subject.

midpipe pros: more high (above 4500) rpm power, maybe 20rwhp on stock twins, if that. shooting flames. loud as hell. seemed to me to puller harder on the highway especially.

midpipe cons: much less power below 4k rpms, shooting flames, loud as hell, your back bumper gets incredibly filthy from the fuel, smells kinda nasty, yet appealing at the same time. Most importantly, boost creep, and easier chance of leaning out.

After blowing 2 motors within 2 months (long story--first was inadequate self-tuning and second was a bad ******* tank of gas [thanks exxon]) Dave at KD Rotary (who knows a thing about these crazy Wankels we love so much) was of the very strong opinion that I install a high flow cat. He told me tuning was more difficult with a midpipe, and that it was more difficult to keep residual fuel in the motor with no backpressure. He basically told me that for a street car with stock twins a midpipe wasn't worth the risk.

Now, Dave had advised against a midpipe all along, back to when I bought the car at the beginning of '99. For the first and only time, I disregarded his advice. I was sick of blowing motors so I finally listened to him.

I'm very happy with the high flow (bought from rx7.com btw): nicer exhaust tone, more low end, I don't **** off the neighbors anymore with the noise. No flames, which I kinda miss.

In closing, I'll direct you to my sig to demonstrate that good power can be made with a high flow cat

Hope this helps--

 

GoodfellaFD3S

i think u just made me solved my problem of gettign a high flo or a cat

 

Hmm...I guess you're not that familiar with Wael's car or Wael, for that matter. If you were you'd know that he never had a single on his car and that he is adamantly opposed to them. Plus, look at the dyno plot- telltale sequential signature.

The other issue is the brand and age of the high flow cat. Some flow worse than stock cat, some significantly better.

Gene

 

It was ordered the HF from Pettit. Not sure if its their own brand or someone else they resell. It's already on the car at the shop so I'm not sure. I would think that Pettit would sell a 'good' brand. Anyone know for sure what it is?

 

Try a resonnated midpipe ,better flow than cat less noise than midpipe more power than cat . Garfinkle runs up graded turbos and resonnated midpipe plus more fun stuff.

 

Please don't tell me what and who I'm familiar with. Thanks . I actually posted that right before bed and was a little sleepy, so yes I did indeed miss the obvious sequential turbo nature of the dyno curve. We both agree that most will not gain 40 wheel hp simply from switching from a high flow to a midpipe though, no?

Sorry for the oversight guys, but I stand behind the rest of my above post

 

Don't forget to get your wastegate ported or else you may get boost creep! I just installed my hi-flow cat(n-tech) and I'm boosting past 15! You'll have to do something to control your boost regardless.

 

Thanks for the advice. I have a gReddy Boost Controller.
If I have that, what advantage would there be to porting the wastegate?

 

First of all upgrade your ECU.
No matter if you have hiflo cat or midpipe
you are still in danger to detonate.
As I read over your post again.
you have a PFC so disregard the above..

IMO: dont waste your money on a Resonate
or High flow Cat.

Most with high flow cat/ Resonate midpipe end
up just getting a MIDPIPE.. Don't waste your money.
Regular midpipe will be cheaper to begin with.

if you are concerned with noise.. Your main concern
should be with yoru Catback.. your catback is the
main component regarding noise level.. I have
DP/MP/ HKS Super drager CB.. and Noise level
UNDER 4K isn't much louder than it was with
the Main Cat on.. I prefer more throaty mean sound
anyways..

BUt make no mistake about it.. above 4K your car will
scream. But isn't as loud as you might think inside the
car.. I am not sure how it would sound behind or
outside the car, but who really cares???

I have never used a resonated MIDPIPE, but i did
research before I did my MP, and Most people say
above 4K with a resonated MP, the noise level
is the same or was no significant reduction.
People will speak of " dronning" I wouldn't worry
about it.. Thats what a Radio was invented for.
How often do you go cross country in a FD3S???

Highflow cats. doesn't flow as well as Midpipe.
And down the road, when you TOSS out the Useless/
broken airpump it will end up to your highflow cat failure.

Don't be afraid of a Midpipe, alot of people have misconceptions of a midpipe.. regarding boost creep
and etc. Nothing that a good tune, or porting of wastegate can't fix..

Goodluck

 

Thanks but actually I don't care about the noise THAT I HEAR , its where I live and flames/smells where I park. The management will bitch very loudly. I don't need any more issues with my neighbors ( moving is unacceptable as I own my unit and love it even if the neighbors bitch about my parking and stereo).

Also, I do drive my FD cross country. I've been on several 15 hr + trips and do 4-6 hours (Tampa - Atlanta and Tampa - Miami) all the time but again the noise I hear isn't the issue. Maybe I'll listen to someone's engine who has one and make a decision. I guess I do have a toruing model and I'm short but I've always loved cruising on long trips in my FD. Except for a snow skid accident I've never had an on the road breakdown on a road trip.

 

midpipes are worth it.......wen im at school and they hear the engine above 4000rpms.......they know not to mess with me


i only had mine 2 months now and all i can say is "WOW".......you can definately feel the difference.....i dont think ill ever take it off


probablly on emissions.....then it goes right back on

 

That was out of character for me. Was a late night post too. I apologize

The rest of your post was spot-on.

Gene

 

"This might help.. http://www.efini.net/hpcomparo.htm Just make sure you have a good computer/fuel"

This is not a good mid-pipe run, Wael had bad plug fouling after transition, ignition kicked back in at about 6K. He explained this on the list. note that in single mode both curves were close. and above 6k, much more midpipe power.

Some have had good luck with a borla full open race muffler added to a midpipe.

 

I debated midpipe vs. high flow for months. after pulling a weak dyno run, and consulting with some other forum members, decided the first step was "assuming" my main cat (with 100K) is getting clogged.

So i have gone with the midpipe and a borla xr1, 16", race series resonator. I'm getting it welded in on sat. and will report back on noise levels (cat back is PFS) and after a little wideband tuning, will post a before and after dyno run sheet. i will probably dyno next weekend and post then.

and yeah, i am saving the cat for the yearly emissions.

i figure that if i don;t like the midpipe setup, i should have no problem selling it and getting a high flow.

 

Rich, I believe this run (2000) was with twins..But I agree with your post, midpipes are best with singles... http://www.efini.net/car-info.htm

 

I had a MP on my car and couldn't stand it. I am running a streetport with non-sequential turbos which make it even louder but this car sounded like an outboard motorboat. I couldn't hear myself think. Absolutely no low-end power and no torque. Installed a hi-flo cat and it fixed everything. Much more low-end grunt, much quieter (but still mean enough to make people look ) and no more truck-stop like fuel smell in my car. Anywhere below 6K a hi-flo cat will have around 20 more rwhp over a MP but after 6K then the hi-flo drops off and the MP shoots through the roof. With a MP the car feels like a S2000 until 6K then it rips. It's much more fun to drive with the hi-flo cat.

 

i guess it really depends on yout prefrence...do you want your power in the beginning or more near the end? i also agree with silver93 "i figure that if i don;t like the midpipe setup, i should have no problem selling it and getting a high flow." but after reading through all this i feel that the high flo is better for my needs.