Harassment from California Emissions Pleases Help
10-13-23, 07:03 PM
#1
Harassment from California Emissions Pleases Help
I am an active duty service member and Florida resident who is stationed in California. My car is pretty heavily modified (HKS V mount, Haltech ECU, top feed injectors, custom wiring harness, HKS downpipe, Bonez cat, Racing Beat touring muffler). Yesterday while driving on base I was pulled over at the gate by the town of Oceanside's local police. They were basically setting up checkpoint at the military gate to ticket cars with modified exhaust. Five other vehicles there were getting ticketed.
Now I know California has some crazy exhaust laws, so I put the Racing Beat exhaust on my car to keep it quiet and respectful to their local laws, but my car is by no means loud. Regardless they pull me over, just because the car is modified. They also looked under the hood and said I was not smog compliant (well no ****, its a 28 year old Rx-7). They issue a warning ticket and and tell me I will have to see a California Referee (possibly get it smogged) to continue to drive on base. Thankfully the ticket was written only for modified exhaust and nothing else.
How do you local California residents do it? Do I actually have to comply with this crap? The cops were saying that even though I am a Florida resident and my car is registered in Florida, I must comply with the People's Republic of California's vehicle code. I am afraid if I take the car to a referee, it will be banned from California highways for not being smog compliant. What should I do?
Now I know California has some crazy exhaust laws, so I put the Racing Beat exhaust on my car to keep it quiet and respectful to their local laws, but my car is by no means loud. Regardless they pull me over, just because the car is modified. They also looked under the hood and said I was not smog compliant (well no ****, its a 28 year old Rx-7). They issue a warning ticket and and tell me I will have to see a California Referee (possibly get it smogged) to continue to drive on base. Thankfully the ticket was written only for modified exhaust and nothing else.
How do you local California residents do it? Do I actually have to comply with this crap? The cops were saying that even though I am a Florida resident and my car is registered in Florida, I must comply with the People's Republic of California's vehicle code. I am afraid if I take the car to a referee, it will be banned from California highways for not being smog compliant. What should I do?
10-13-23, 09:03 PM
#2
what state is your car registered and plated in? florida?
the ca dmv website states if its to be titled in california then you're not exempt... kind of implies if its not then you're exempt.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver...in-california/
the ca dmv website states if its to be titled in california then you're not exempt... kind of implies if its not then you're exempt.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver...in-california/
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johnthomas96 (10-16-23)
10-13-23, 09:13 PM
#3
what state is your car registered and plated in? florida?
the ca dmv website states if its to be titled in california then you're not exempt... kind of implies if its not then you're exempt.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver...in-california/
the ca dmv website states if its to be titled in california then you're not exempt... kind of implies if its not then you're exempt.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver...in-california/
10-13-23, 09:27 PM
#4
sounds like nonsense... that would mean to drive through or to california from another state would require you to get smogged for visiting. unlikely. as active duty "we" have some form of exemption in every state to cover the temporary residence of our vehicles TO INCLUDE not having to register it in the state of duty.
i scrubbed the ca dmv website for a straight answer but theres just a lot of nonsense. the closest i can find is an implication that ca smog requirements only apply to ca plated cars. i would say call a smog inspection shop and ask. they would know for sure. i can say for certain i was exempt from the north carolina vehicle inspection process because i am a florida resident with florida plated cars. there was an exemption in place by the state so i didnt have to register my cars theres while on active duty.
i scrubbed the ca dmv website for a straight answer but theres just a lot of nonsense. the closest i can find is an implication that ca smog requirements only apply to ca plated cars. i would say call a smog inspection shop and ask. they would know for sure. i can say for certain i was exempt from the north carolina vehicle inspection process because i am a florida resident with florida plated cars. there was an exemption in place by the state so i didnt have to register my cars theres while on active duty.
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diabolical1 (10-14-23)
10-14-23, 06:41 AM
#5
I agree with FDAUTO, that sounds like a bunch of BS. Lot's of out-of-state cars drive thru CA every day, and lots of them are owned by active duty military who live in CA temporarily - I'd be very surprised if there wasn't an exemption for that. Recommend running this by your unit/base's legal counsel office for advice - I'm sure they have dealt with this issue before, and can advise you on how to precisely tell the state of CA to pound sand legally.
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10-14-23, 09:16 AM
#6
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so first of all, if you have access to a lawyer you should go ask questions. unless its over the sound limit, it seems weird that they could give you a ticket for not meeting CA specs, when its not even registered here
two the registration process is so complicated (they show 12 ways to do it on the website, and i can come up with a few more) that i'm not sure they know how to do it either.
in short the whole thing is a mess, and the recent push to have the DMV lines shorter than a day has made the rest of the process worse.
three; you can probably just pay the fine and not do anything to the car, its a super weird quirk, but its sometimes there.
you have the option to fix the car, and pay something, or pay the full fine and keep driving.
and four, yes we have to comply with this crap. in the good old days, as long as you paid money they would do whatever you needed. but now that they are trying to read and keep track of things, its like Soviet era bureaucracy.
and speaking of that, its best to not show the police the car, they don't have a clue what they are looking at, but can ticket you for all sorts of stuff, so its very dangerous.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/stock-...t-registration
two the registration process is so complicated (they show 12 ways to do it on the website, and i can come up with a few more) that i'm not sure they know how to do it either.
in short the whole thing is a mess, and the recent push to have the DMV lines shorter than a day has made the rest of the process worse.
three; you can probably just pay the fine and not do anything to the car, its a super weird quirk, but its sometimes there.
you have the option to fix the car, and pay something, or pay the full fine and keep driving.
and four, yes we have to comply with this crap. in the good old days, as long as you paid money they would do whatever you needed. but now that they are trying to read and keep track of things, its like Soviet era bureaucracy.
and speaking of that, its best to not show the police the car, they don't have a clue what they are looking at, but can ticket you for all sorts of stuff, so its very dangerous.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/stock-...t-registration
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diabolical1 (10-14-23)
10-14-23, 09:54 AM
#7
This link is very interesting about SMOG requirements for Military personnel vehicles. https://www.smog-tech-training.com/M...%20California.Military-Exemption-Vehicle
Military Personnel Vehicles Federal law requires a Smog Check inspection for vehicles not registered in California but are owned and operated by non-resident military personnel on active duty in California. Meaning if someone is in the military and their vehicle needs a smog inspection the military representative can have their vehicle smog at any smog test only or test and repair shop.
The difference is if a Military personnel vehicle smog inspection is conducted, that passing vehicle must have a passing VIR before a base sticker can be issued.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver...or%20business.Nonresident military personnel and both
Military or civilian members of NATO who are not citizens of the U.S. are permitted to operate a vehicle with valid license plates from either:
This section applies to all vehicles owned by the military person or spouse except any CMV used in any business manner.
Military Personnel Vehicles Federal law requires a Smog Check inspection for vehicles not registered in California but are owned and operated by non-resident military personnel on active duty in California. Meaning if someone is in the military and their vehicle needs a smog inspection the military representative can have their vehicle smog at any smog test only or test and repair shop.
The difference is if a Military personnel vehicle smog inspection is conducted, that passing vehicle must have a passing VIR before a base sticker can be issued.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver...or%20business.Nonresident military personnel and both
Military or civilian members of NATO who are not citizens of the U.S. are permitted to operate a vehicle with valid license plates from either:
- The individual’s home state or country.
- The state or country where the individual was regularly assigned and stationed when the license plates were issued, if the following requirements are met:
- The license plates displayed on the vehicle are valid plates issued by a foreign jurisdiction.
- The vehicle registration and license plates are issued to the military person or spouse of the military person.
- The vehicle registration and license plates are issued by the foreign jurisdiction where the military person was last regularly assigned and stationed for duty by military orders or a jurisdiction claimed by the nonresident military person as the permanent state of residence.
- If the vehicle is a motor vehicle, the owner or driver has insurance.
This section applies to all vehicles owned by the military person or spouse except any CMV used in any business manner.
Last edited by KansasCityREPU; 10-14-23 at 10:07 AM.
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johnthomas96 (10-16-23)
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10-14-23, 05:47 PM
#8
Junior Member
Absolute bullshit, you are required to follow the laws of the state you live in and thats all. What are you supposed to do when traveling through the state? Smog your car for every state you pass through?
most cops dont know the actual laws and you will likely have to fight it in court, which the judge will drop because there are no smog requirements for Florida.
If you were registering the car there thats a different story and you’d be nuts to do that (**** state). They are losing residents and lots of tax dollars for the state because of their garbage liberal policies and rampant crime. They dont want to do **** about all the robberies but they are happy to hassle you for loud exhaust? GTFO of here
most cops dont know the actual laws and you will likely have to fight it in court, which the judge will drop because there are no smog requirements for Florida.
If you were registering the car there thats a different story and you’d be nuts to do that (**** state). They are losing residents and lots of tax dollars for the state because of their garbage liberal policies and rampant crime. They dont want to do **** about all the robberies but they are happy to hassle you for loud exhaust? GTFO of here
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10-14-23, 06:53 PM
#10
California law enforcement can issue a "modified exhaust" (citing excesive noise regulations, not smog) to any vehicle operating in California.
Which is what happened to you.
Recently these tickets require you to go to a CA BAR station to be tested for and signed off.
It used to be a fix-it ticket any officer could sign off.
A real issue is this test relies only on an officers discretion to issue and not the instrumented tests set forth in the code cited for ticketing.
Test your exhaust before you even make changes or go to the BAR station, your set-up could be compliant.
BAR will test your exhaust noise output as written in the cited code - that is all.
That noise output test and visual inspection for permanent construction of muffling devices (no bypass or cut-outs) is the BAR inspection relevant to this citation.
I suppose an external wastegate could be identified as a an exhaust cut- out or bypass and cause you to fail.
Im not sure how one would remedy that besides re-circulating the wastegate or removing wastegate and welding the block-off plate onto the turbo manifold.
Anything bolt-on could be considered a removable bypass according to the writing of the code- despite all exhaust manifolds and piping being bolted together...
Which is what happened to you.
Recently these tickets require you to go to a CA BAR station to be tested for and signed off.
It used to be a fix-it ticket any officer could sign off.
A real issue is this test relies only on an officers discretion to issue and not the instrumented tests set forth in the code cited for ticketing.
Test your exhaust before you even make changes or go to the BAR station, your set-up could be compliant.
BAR will test your exhaust noise output as written in the cited code - that is all.
That noise output test and visual inspection for permanent construction of muffling devices (no bypass or cut-outs) is the BAR inspection relevant to this citation.
I suppose an external wastegate could be identified as a an exhaust cut- out or bypass and cause you to fail.
Im not sure how one would remedy that besides re-circulating the wastegate or removing wastegate and welding the block-off plate onto the turbo manifold.
Anything bolt-on could be considered a removable bypass according to the writing of the code- despite all exhaust manifolds and piping being bolted together...
10-14-23, 11:59 PM
#11
so first of all, if you have access to a lawyer you should go ask questions. unless its over the sound limit, it seems weird that they could give you a ticket for not meeting CA specs, when its not even registered here
two the registration process is so complicated (they show 12 ways to do it on the website, and i can come up with a few more) that i'm not sure they know how to do it either.
in short the whole thing is a mess, and the recent push to have the DMV lines shorter than a day has made the rest of the process worse.
three; you can probably just pay the fine and not do anything to the car, its a super weird quirk, but its sometimes there.
you have the option to fix the car, and pay something, or pay the full fine and keep driving.
and four, yes we have to comply with this crap. in the good old days, as long as you paid money they would do whatever you needed. but now that they are trying to read and keep track of things, its like Soviet era bureaucracy.
and speaking of that, its best to not show the police the car, they don't have a clue what they are looking at, but can ticket you for all sorts of stuff, so its very dangerous.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/stock-...t-registration
two the registration process is so complicated (they show 12 ways to do it on the website, and i can come up with a few more) that i'm not sure they know how to do it either.
in short the whole thing is a mess, and the recent push to have the DMV lines shorter than a day has made the rest of the process worse.
three; you can probably just pay the fine and not do anything to the car, its a super weird quirk, but its sometimes there.
you have the option to fix the car, and pay something, or pay the full fine and keep driving.
and four, yes we have to comply with this crap. in the good old days, as long as you paid money they would do whatever you needed. but now that they are trying to read and keep track of things, its like Soviet era bureaucracy.
and speaking of that, its best to not show the police the car, they don't have a clue what they are looking at, but can ticket you for all sorts of stuff, so its very dangerous.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/stock-...t-registration
California law enforcement can issue a "modified exhaust" (citing excesive noise regulations, not smog) to any vehicle operating in California.
Which is what happened to you.
Recently these tickets require you to go to a CA BAR station to be tested for and signed off.
It used to be a fix-it ticket any officer could sign off.
A real issue is this test relies only on an officers discretion to issue and not the instrumented tests set forth in the code cited for ticketing.
Test your exhaust before you even make changes or go to the BAR station, your set-up could be compliant.
BAR will test your exhaust noise output as written in the cited code - that is all.
That noise output test and visual inspection for permanent construction of muffling devices (no bypass or cut-outs) is the BAR inspection relevant to this citation.
I suppose an external wastegate could be identified as a an exhaust cut- out or bypass and cause you to fail.
Im not sure how one would remedy that besides re-circulating the wastegate or removing wastegate and welding the block-off plate onto the turbo manifold.
Anything bolt-on could be considered a removable bypass according to the writing of the code- despite all exhaust manifolds and piping being bolted together...
Which is what happened to you.
Recently these tickets require you to go to a CA BAR station to be tested for and signed off.
It used to be a fix-it ticket any officer could sign off.
A real issue is this test relies only on an officers discretion to issue and not the instrumented tests set forth in the code cited for ticketing.
Test your exhaust before you even make changes or go to the BAR station, your set-up could be compliant.
BAR will test your exhaust noise output as written in the cited code - that is all.
That noise output test and visual inspection for permanent construction of muffling devices (no bypass or cut-outs) is the BAR inspection relevant to this citation.
I suppose an external wastegate could be identified as a an exhaust cut- out or bypass and cause you to fail.
Im not sure how one would remedy that besides re-circulating the wastegate or removing wastegate and welding the block-off plate onto the turbo manifold.
Anything bolt-on could be considered a removable bypass according to the writing of the code- despite all exhaust manifolds and piping being bolted together...
The way I understand the situation now, is that I got a warning ticket. If I want to drive on base I would have to make those changes. If I drive in town, the cops can pull me over and harass me, but they really cannot do anything because I am registered out of state. For now I am just not going to drive the FD on base for a while, until things calm down. There are so many stupid loud cars on base that never get pulled by MP, that I am not worried about it.
10-15-23, 10:09 AM
#12
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You accurately described what is going on here. The car has stock twins, a Bonez cat, and Racing Beat exhaust so it is pretty quiet. I still have the stock cat, and with that on I am positive it would pass the noise laws, just not the smog laws.
The way I understand the situation now, is that I got a warning ticket. If I want to drive on base I would have to make those changes. If I drive in town, the cops can pull me over and harass me, but they really cannot do anything because I am registered out of state. For now I am just not going to drive the FD on base for a while, until things calm down. There are so many stupid loud cars on base that never get pulled by MP, that I am not worried about it.
The way I understand the situation now, is that I got a warning ticket. If I want to drive on base I would have to make those changes. If I drive in town, the cops can pull me over and harass me, but they really cannot do anything because I am registered out of state. For now I am just not going to drive the FD on base for a while, until things calm down. There are so many stupid loud cars on base that never get pulled by MP, that I am not worried about it.
you just need to keep in mind that the CA bureaucracy will treat you like you're trying to swindle them, but then they don't really understand how their own system works either. so things can go bad in a big hurry, it is best to have all the documentation, but let them ask for the ones they want. in the good old days they just wanted the money, but now they need to fill out the computer form too, and that is a minefield.
10-15-23, 05:20 PM
#13
I kept my car and drivers licenses with the state of Illinois and like you swapped my exhaust for the dual tip racing beat, I was never required to smog at least back in 2013. Police do not have to right to search or open anything that's not already visible of the car without a warrant unless a crime has been committed. Whenever I was pulled over or asked my answer was always the car came with that from factory, They were more interested in my out of state licenses than the car. It might be possible to register as antique auto.
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10-16-23, 10:58 AM
#16
Lawyer will probably cost more than the fine, assuming this will end up being a one-off. Just call it bad luck. The fact that the cops are targeting base personnel tells me that people on the base are aware of what's going on and are supporting it or looking the other way. Don't expect much sympathy.
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