I appreciate you posting that link, closest setup for sure! They were also tagged right at the start of the post but shops can't be assed mucking around on the net usually. (understandable given the amount of questions I get, big time waster for sure)
I'm not that keen to cold call them from the otherside of the world with a question knowing they aren't getting my business, so thought i'd try my luck here.

I don't need the EXACT setup, just a big single running in a similar efficiency range and pushing 400-500hp.

If you posted the data that would be FAR more than this post has delivered on yet :P
Appreciate if you could share anything.

Its a matter of can they be bothered digging out the laptop and going through logs to check for one (non customers) question...

 

This reservation is somewhat fair. I'm not going to drop any names but years back I called a few shops to ask questions (that I thought were quick and simple, out of respect for time) and while some were happy to offer a few minutes of help, some others gave pretty upset responses about trying to get information out of them without being a customer.

 

Unless you have an admin person to take the calls, yes its super annoying cause 80% of them will take the info and run and never have your business, just cost you time....
BUT you also don't want to be grumpy and turn away a potential customer. I'm just not going to be that annoying person (just annoy you all on the forums :P)

Please dig out those logs @Montego You have a fast IAT sensor right? You might win the prize of the only single turbo person to post logs from a greddy vmount :P

 

Saw the same question posted to FB earlier, I assumed it was you.

Think you're gonna have to be the one to give us data. Maybe buy a used kit to keep the experimental costs down?

 

Getting a used kit in NZ almost impossible, and not worth buying a used kit from overseas due to postage cost when a new kit landed is $1974 USD all up ($3230 NZD)

Yes i'll likely just report back with actual results, but in the mean time i'd be keen to hear @Montego results

 

@Billj747 what's your intercooler solution for the MotoIQ FD? Maybe we should group-think this and come up the with "ultimate" V mount solution.

Honestly, removing a pop-up light and ducting from there is the best way apart from maybe a hood scoop. That way you run a full size intercooler with a cold air intake. But not many people are willing to change the front of the cars look that drastically.

 

I guess the problem with this whole exercise is just as others had posted... there are a lot of setups out there that can generate different results. The GReddy VMIC setup is a proven winner. I had much lower water temps with the setup and very consistent IAT setups. I tune cars as well, but when something is working as intended without setting off alarms, usually I have no use in logging data I never plan to look at.

Next time I'm out in my RX-7, I can log the IAT with my twins.

The issues in variability in setups, such as the single turbo used, the ducting on the VMIC (modified and sealed better?) the placement of the turbo inlet's filter, ambient temps and altitude of the testing car, fuel type used, ignition timing... there are a host of variables.

If you are looking for the absolute best VMIC, you're probably going to have to do a lot more research and development to see how you can improve a trusted unit.

 

I will be covering the custom dual pass radiator in an upcoming article, but I already have it mounted in the car. I also have ideas for a better (V2) design to further increase surface area, which is already significantly larger than stock.

I am currently working on the packaging of the radiator and turbo which is dictating my intercooler size. I agree that removing the pop up headlight and running the air filter down the right side of the frame rail would be ideal to maximize the intercooler width, I personally don't want to lose the pop up headlights, so I will have to run a narrower core to get ambient air to the turbo.

A big part of the effectiveness and efficiency of intercoolers and radiators is the ducting and creating a pressure differential across the core. Ducts need to be AIR TIGHT (or close to it) to create this pressure differential. This is greatly overlooked by 99% of the V-mounts out there. Proper ducting will greatly improve the cooling of the cores.

 

+1 ive tried two different exhausts, with two different compressors, and intake temps have changed with the different setups. the stock turbo at choke flow and 8psi had higher temps than the bigger turbo at 13.4psi, about 10c too

i also have just decided that the spot in my elbow isn't that great for the air temp sensor,
it only gets flow when the secondary's are open, so i moved it to the stock spot, which is also different.
i'll catch my tail one of these days, i'm so close!

the Cosmo elbow is right in front of the primary


and i used the boss that was there.... which isn't

 

You will get bigger gains from increasing the tube or plate count (as in a taller core) than you would making the core longer. Technically a vertical flow cooler with short tubes or plates but MANY of them would be even better.
Apparently the second half of the length of the tubes only do around 25% of the cooling. So when you are thinking "can i fit in a 50mm wider core" its not really gonna do jack vs say a 50mm TALLER core to get more tubes/plates in there.

P.S I've ordered a Greddy kit, since so far not ONE person has posted single turbo data with this kit.
I ordered from these guys who i've used before, even for OEM mazda parts. https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/?rfsn=6652894.3e5e3c
Just a bit under 2k USD delivered.

Come on ppl it didn't have to be THE EXACT TURBO!, but a similar single turbo like a S300, 8376 or 9180 EFR, G30-900 or G40 all in 16-20psi area 450-550hp, at least to give SOME data. Any data would be better than this post has delivered on so far :P

I just wanted to know "nah it increases temp 20-30C in one pull, totally useless"
OR "pretty good only minor 10-15C increase at most"

That person could have shared their setup when posting.

 

The greater the temperature difference, the more efficient a core is. A longer core is less efficient because the first part of the core did more of the work, and as it travels through the core it gets closer to ambient. If the end of the core isn't doing any work, that's ok because the air is already cooled down. A wider core does the same thing in less length, and the wider it is the quicker the core drops efficiency over length.

Going wider vs longer usually adds more square area, that's the true gain.

 

Absolutely. Which is why I was going to go for a vertical flow (fin and tube) intercooler with billet end tanks in a configuration that I haven't seen before, which would be a pretty elegant solution with a significantly better CFM and pressure loss. Unfortunately that is going to have to wait and I will be using a horizontal flow (bar and plate) intercooler with fabricated end tanks in the interim.

Agreed. I have the tallest core that fits my current constraints, but its a little wider (longer length wise of the tubes) than I would like, which will make the charge pipes have more bends than I would like.

Garrett's figures:

(width x height x thickness) = "supported" horsepower rating

14 x 12.1 x 3.5 = 550hp
18 x 12.1 x 3 = 750hp
18 x 12.1 x 4.5 = 785hp (increasing the core thickness 1.5" only increased the hp rating by 35hp)
24 x 12.1 x 3 = 900hp (increasing the core width; the length of the tubes; by 4" increased the hp rating by 150hp)
24 x 12.1 x 3.5 = 925hp (increasing the core thickness 0.5" only increased hp rating by 25hp)
24 x 10.5 x 3.5 = 800hp (decreasing the height of the core by 1.6" reduced the hp rating by a significant 125hp)
24 x 12.1 x 4.5 = 950hp (increasing the core thickness another 1" only increased hp rating by 25hp)

As you guys said, height and surface area is key with height playing a bigger role.

 

Sorry man but I think you misunderstood. I said I didn't have any logs:


I completely understand that sentiment. But you know what they say: if you never ask, then the answer is always no.

Personally I wouldn't call them asking for logs either. But I would call them, tell them where you are from (so they know they aren't getting business) and that you're not looking to waste their time, and simply ask them what they think of the greedy vmount on a 450RWHP single turbo FD (since they tuned a built a 500RWHP already). If the answer is 'no, the unit sucks' then there ya go. If the answer is it's 'yeah it will do just fine' then you know you are getting true first hand knowledge.

In any case, I am looking to update my ECU sometime in the near future and will get it tuned on a Dyno. If that happens, I will make sure to update this thread. Although it probably won't help you because by the time I come around you most likely will have already figured out what you needed to to do .

 

Ahh sorry chap, no worries all good.
Correct.

So just remember those ballpark HP numbers are HP based on flow for PISTON engine normal CFM demands vs HP.

This is probably a better comparison of the cooling capacity increase that height gives you from Garret:
510HP 18.0x10.5x3.0
vs
750HP 18.0x12.1x3.0

240HP MORE for just 1.6" taller height.


So really based off Garrets numbers you kinda want either of these really. (any wider you aren't going to fit in a decent fresh air intake)
18 x 12.1 x 3 = 750hp
18 x 12.1 x 4.5 = 785hp

HOWEVER - If I was making a custom vmount I woudn't use a Bar and Plate cooler setup at all. That 4.5" garret core must be a heavy LUMP, and once you heat soak it in stop go traffic (cause it will) then it will be hard to bring down again in a hurry vs a tube and fin.
Will it work well tho? Hell yeh.
Is there a better core more suited for under bonnet vmount temps, yes I think so.
Instead go for a REALLY high quality tube and fin core, talk to https://shop.pwr.com.au/ they can even make you a custom core, the same tech core that F1 is supplied.
Cores in the above fitment from PWR range from $1000 NZD to $1700NZD (for the F1 level stuff) for tube and fin, they can also do bar and plate if you really feel thats best for the application.

If my tiny baby Greddy core doesn't cut it for me, I'll get a PWR core and retro fit it to the greddy setup (with better end tank placement also, the over top design really isn't ideal for cooling across the core either)

 

PWR has a few 500x300 cores that look interesting. Could just fit a duct past it.

 

They will custom make you anything, even curved cores etc.
Get em to make a 400x300x100,or a 450x300x100 tube and fin.

Because of the core tech they run it will likely outperform a run of the mill 500x300 core anyways.

Some info from PWR you might not get explained very well on their site
"We have two common types of extruded tube; standard, and lightweight. Lightweight would offer ~ 8% or so better performance than the Standard option. It is also significantly lighter.
The rolled tube options are significantly more involved to manufacture but this is the same type of core we use in the Intercoolers in Current F1 Cars.
Performance and efficiency on these units is significantly beyond the extruded tube options.Our Bar and Plate cores use the same style of turbulator as the rolled tubes. These turbulators are available in numerous densities, gauges and heights"

So a 450x300x100 extruded lightweight core would be around $1000NZ bare core, the rolled F1 tech core $1700NZD to give everyone an idea of the price you pay. Gotta pay to play though right

 

Great points.

PWR is the best heat exchanger company on the planet. They do the majority of F1, NASCAR, Sports Cars (LeMans Prototypes & GT cars) etc... I've been racing cars with their heat exchangers since 2009 and am a big fan.

I was going to talk to them about doing a 500 x 300 x 75 vertical flow fin and tube core (and the billet end tanks), but my car has been down for 2 years and has undergone a lot of changes and I need to get it running ASAP; so I will be going with a traditional horizontal flow bar & plate. Later on, I will do the PWR and see how the such drastic changes from a similarly sized horizontal to vertical flow and bar & plate to fin & tube affect the charge air temps. That should be an informative back-to-back test.

 

Even the basic cores if they are big enough and well made with ducting are prob going to be fine. But yeh if I was custom making something, then PWR would be my first choice, else MAYBE one of those Garret cores after that.

I'll post results of the Greddy setup but its going to be 2 months away at least I think (6 week before it lands to start with)

 

So I know it's not exactly what you are looking for, but at least this will be some data. I've been going back through some old logs trying to chase down a persisting (non-related) issue and I came across a 3rd-4th street pull. At the time, I was only running spring pressure (so ~8psi), but the setup is similar to what you are looking for: EFR 8474, Greddy V-Mount, fast acting AIT, etc, but no W/M for this pull.

Pull started in 3rd gear at ~3500RPM. Full throttle to ~7000RPM, shift to 4th. Full throttle to ~6000RPM. Saw a >2deg C increase in AIT. Water temps were very low (highway driving before the pull) so I don't even think fans were on.

I like your idea of the PWR core in the Greddy kit. That would probably be the route I'd go if I end up finding the limit of the Greddy and want more. It will all come down to what temps I see on track, once everything is ironed out and I'm able to do some real driving.

 

If you’re spending the fab time to make an intercooler and mount it, don’t bother wasting the money on the Greddy kit, just fab the whole thing. It’s some brackets, maybe a new inlet/outlet on the rad, and some flat bits of aluminum for the ducts.

Spending money on the Greddy just to then replace the intercooler is honestly a waste of money

 

About 10 years ago a very 'perfectionist' friend of mine decided that he could build a much better v-mount that any kit that was out there for his perfectly running car. It hasn't run since lol. The dude is quite good with tools but what he found out was that it wasn't as easy as it sounded.

Also the greedy kit can be broken down into different pieces so I would not call it a total waste of money. As it comes with an IC with piping from the turbos to the UIM, Intakes with their piping, a radiator already modified, mounting brackets, shrouds (for a lack of a better word), couplers, and air conditioning lines. I would guess the IC is probably $500-$600 of the total price if the kit

 

Amazing, thanks for sharing, the first person with a similar setup to do so, thats good info. Almost sounds too good to be true! What were the intake temps BEFORE you started the pull out of interest? (was it FREEZING cold out or summer time?)

Your 8474 EFR would be pumping out similar compressor temps vs my S362SX-E at 10psi. To compare mine on stock intercooler at 10 psi started at 34C on the street ending in 51C. so 17C increase with 10psi gate pressure.
Same test but on the dyno and 12psi saw 34C starting ending with 62C=28C increase for 12psi boost! (you can see extra boost and dyno air speed not as good as street)
Dyno 14psi - started 34C ending 67C=33C increase
Dyno 16psi - started 34C ending in 72C=38C increase
Dyno last run spiked to 18psi and ending 16psi - Heat soaked now starting at 38C ending at 78C=40C increase! 385hp with some misfires up top due to spark.

On the street a 16psi pull started 36C ended at 65C=29C increase vs a 38C increase on the dyno (so 9C worse on the dyno)

Summary: so I'm getting 17C increase on the street at 10psi (it would have been about a 20C day) vs you 2C with the greddy. Sounding promising.

 

I've been on the forum for decades, and I'm 100% convinced that the intercooler is the modification that gets the most "build a better mousetrap" syndrome, dating all the way back to people not like the price of the M2 medium or Pettit CoolCharge, and thinking they'll fab something for cheaper/better, and I've rarely seen it actually done.

 

The pull was on an August night last year, so it was defiantly a warm day (high of 85F), but I went back at the weather history and I can see that the temperature at roughly the time of the drive was 75F with 65% humidity. Intake temps were 88F right before the pull, and 95F at shutdown. They were back to 86F in just under a minute of cruising @ 2650 RPM in 5th.

Again, not track data/high boost, but it's something.

 

Made radiators before, but sounds like the OP doesn't want to impose or wait on friends. Kees Weel who is the father of Paul (PWR), used to supply cores (maybe still does?).....and you can definitely do it cheaper - if you have the tools! That should total just a few grand if not at hand, guillotine, brake, holesaw and turned tube with a bit of welding.

Several people here do sell end tanks, cast, sheet metal fabrication and possibly hydroformed if you were that way inclined, and you didn't want to make your own......usually the greatest risk, pinhole leaks, only discovered when the bastard is fully pressurised..

Not sure how the "at" thing works, I'd assume rx72c as mentioned earlier, has tuned his fair share of greddy equipped cars - if he's inclined to share.