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Fuel Slosh Issues Part 2. New solution by Holley revealed.

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Old 12-13-14, 01:09 PM
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Fuel Slosh Issues Part 2. New solution by Holley revealed.

So a little while back I posted about the fuel slosh issues I was having:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...tions-1068995/

I installed the Hyperion fuel baffle cover in my 93 and would still be able to starve my Bosch .044 around hard left hand turns with 2/3's of a tank or less with my Kuhmo XS and Tein Flex on the car.

I was looking into other options to resolve the issue. The goal was to not over complicate things or have fuel running to a reservoir with a second pump inside the car. For the time being I have just been dealing with it and keeping the car topped off if I planned any spirited driving.

Then today my friend sent me this: BangShift.com PRI 2014: MUST SEE! Holley's HydraMat Just Changed The Fuel System Game In A Big Way! - BangShift.com

I don't think the product has been officially released for sale, however the technology is rather impressive and might be the simple solution I have been looking for to fuel starvation issues.

What do you guys think?
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Old 12-13-14, 02:31 PM
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Seems great. Just replace the stock small sock with one of their large socks.
Can't wait for its release to the public market.
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Old 12-13-14, 03:11 PM
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it as a fantastic product and i am holding my breath waiting for them to trickle out so we can start integrating them into our various fuel pump module products.

you will definitely be able to put that to work for you towards solving your starvation... but keep in mind this is not going to be as simple as just replacing your filter sock with this product and then suddenly all problems are solved.

the starvation you are experiencing is because the fuel pump is on the left side of the tank, and the fuel sloshes to the opposite side of the tank during a right turn. While this pickup will reduce starvation if any part of it has enough fuel in contact with it... keep that detail in mind. There still has to be ENOUGH fuel remaining in contact with it to prevent pressure drop. It needs enough to meet your engines current demands and when you turn hard left, all that fuel will still slosh to the right leaving very little for this pickup to gather. So while there might be another moments worth of fuel in contact with this pickup... its going to immediately gather that fuel and then it is gone until the car settles and fuel returns.

This product is pure perfection for fuel cells when you can easily unfold one inside the cell that covers the entire square floor.

But your FD fuel tank is much more complex and has a larger floor plan.

This is possibly the best fuel pickup solution to date... but it still needs fuel to pick up. You need to get it in contact with the fuel on the right side of the tank, which is the hard part that this product doesnt solve itself.

The demonstration at PRI showcases its ability to gather all fuel in contact with it... but I believe it is UNintentionally misleading because 100% of the demonstration fuel is returning right back to where it came from. That is not the case with your car, where only the unburned fuel returns.
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Old 12-13-14, 05:00 PM
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The above statement is correct. I played with the unit at the PRI show this week. A swirl pot, like the product AI carry are the answer. We will be carrying these units soon.
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Old 12-13-14, 06:41 PM
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just wanted to correct my previous post but it doesnt allow me to edit.... when i said "and the fuel sloshes to the opposite side of the tank during a right turn" i meant to say "left turn"
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Old 12-13-14, 07:33 PM
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But isn't the point that they will make is large enough so it would reach the right side of the tank?
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Old 12-13-14, 07:51 PM
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Another issue is that since the socks are all AN fitted, it'll be difficult for those of us with Walbro 400 to use it. I'm sure theres a solution but I can't think of anything but welding a fitting onto the base of the pump.
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Old 12-13-14, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedrx7 View Post
But isn't the point that they will make is large enough so it would reach the right side of the tank?
I don't know how a FD tank looks but if it is indeed just a big tub, yeah, I don't see why not considering you can use magnets to hold down the filter and have lines running from it.
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Old 12-14-14, 12:36 PM
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Given the left orientation of the pump, it looks like I will have to run a fitting and a line from the bottom of the pump to the Holley pickup bag, which I can then position in the middle of the tank. In that video however, I did see some bubbles go through the line when that guy was picking the pickup up at 1:20. I don't know if that is something they are still working on or if it's just because of the guy touching it.
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Old 12-14-14, 02:09 PM
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i also noticed the bubbles and a couple of those little guys is all it would take during full throttle to have a couple lean burns.

I doubt they will make one large enough to cover the entire tank. That would be considerably larger than any of the samples they had on display (that i could see in the video, i wasnt there in person). With the existing baffles in there it might be really hard to lay it out. We will also have yet to find out exactly how well they work in practice.

Either way, it is clearly a superior fuel pump pickup than what we are generally accustomed to. I just think expectations have to stay realistic. Its going to be a player in the game, that is for sure.

Rather than expecting to see one large enough to span the entire fuel tank, I would bet they are expecting installers to place more than 1 of these pickups in the tank and T'ing them together. If you had one at each side of the tank feeding to a large single pump, you are going to have the coverage you need.

The question still remains though, exactly how well does it work. What concerns me is that there were any bubbles at all when the guy was playing with it. If enough air becomes introduced you could loose vacuum in the entire pickup, making your efforts entirely worthless. Perhaps there is a quantity of air that is expected per square inch of this "material" that would limit how many square inches you would want in the pickup system before it could introduce too much air... I mean, I am just talking out of my *** at this point but I am only trying to convey that we know very little at this time. Unless this technology is borrowed from something more advanced such as aircraft tanks or something, I have my doubts that the end all solution to liquid fuel pickups in all applications just popped up first at the PRI show.
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Old 12-14-14, 07:44 PM
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The air bubbles I believe, come from the fact that the mat was being moved around at that time.

If you look at the design, it has magnets on the underside to stop movement (and therefore air bubbles) from happening during normal use in the tank.

I hope it is a trimmable mat, so I can trim it to suit the baffled stock FD tank floor. I am definitely going to be getting one of these and fitting it as soon as they become available. It is not the solution to all the issues, but I see it as a backup protection device for the FD- it can only do good things for it, and I will be getting one ASAP.
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Old 12-15-14, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonn View Post
Another issue is that since the socks are all AN fitted, it'll be difficult for those of us with Walbro 400 to use it. I'm sure theres a solution but I can't think of anything but welding a fitting onto the base of the pump.
A little searching yielded this where Holley says they will be available with different fittings!

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Old 12-15-14, 12:09 PM
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Subscribing... should be an interesting product!!!
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Old 12-15-14, 09:58 PM
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Another video.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...t/parts/12-924
click on hi res image
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Old 12-17-14, 09:53 PM
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That video was beautiful. I sent the link to my friends.
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Old 12-18-14, 07:03 AM
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I get a kick out of the EMISSIONS note link when you click on it. I mean, c'mon, why even bother with these types of notes? People are gonna use them in everything.
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Old 12-18-14, 09:15 AM
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The FEDs have been sueing manufactorers recently who are breaking emissions laws.
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Old 12-18-14, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
The FEDs have been sueing manufactorers recently who are breaking emissions laws.
Understood Elliot, just saying that the law and policy is rediculous. I mean, what are the FEDs going to do? Inspect an individual's vehicle and file a lawsuit against you if you're running one of these socks in your gas tank? I personally can't see how the installation of this product would in any way affect a vehicle's emissions profile.

Sorry for the mini off topic rant!
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Old 01-19-15, 01:49 AM
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^Just another example of gov't overreach.

Does anyone know if this is compatible with E85? This is very promising. Thinking of integrating this with the HPP in-tank surge tank. Hmmmm
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Old 01-19-15, 11:55 AM
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One problem is that our tanks are not just big tubs, it has several internal baffles that run from front to back in the tank. We have had to upgrade several customers to the 99 fuel tank, that had broken the welds on the baffles, which allows the metal plate to slam into the fuel pump assembly.

It may be possible to fit a large pad under the baffles and remove the pump basin.

In this picture, you can see a portion of the baffle in the upper left. You can also see the upgraded internal metal lid for the pump.

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Old 01-19-15, 12:28 PM
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This might help.

Internal Surge Tank (IST)
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Old 01-20-15, 02:50 PM
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Subbed for future updates...I hope we get a stock tank solution!
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Old 01-20-15, 05:19 PM
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Since the pick-up material does not suck air, it should be possible to daisy chain these pickups together in different locations with tube (locations separated with baffles or the pump well for instance).

This is going to have more pressure drop than a single big pickup, but it is how crawlers have been doing it with mechanical check valves that function similar to this.

Some racing classes do not allow external OR internal fuel surge tanks, but do allow replacement pumps and filters- so, this is a attractive option that did not exist before.

One problem is that our tanks are not just big tubs, it has several internal baffles that run from front to back in the tank. We have had to upgrade several customers to the 99 fuel tank, that had broken the welds on the baffles, which allows the metal plate to slam into the fuel pump assembly.

My FD had this problem. I found out when the baffles were hitting the positive terminal on the fuel pump and blowing the fuse (spares found in the glovebox) and had knocked the level float off the lever.

Now I am racing with the giant 20 gallon FD tank un-baffled so I have to have a spare 100lbs of fuel on board to prevent starvation...
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Old 01-20-15, 07:08 PM
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Very interesting product.

A word of warning: anything that is located outside of the plastic surge tray is risky. Fuel cells are smooth and nonmetallic inside and do not damage fuel cell foam or absorbent mats like this.

Our fuel tanks often have sharp metal baffles and/or sharp metal edges where the baffle had broken away. The magnets that Holley describes are absolutely essential to keep it from shifting around and getting shredded. (Shredded stuff gets into the fuel filter and quickly plugs it, leaving you to blow your engine right as you notice the plugged filter. I know this and admit it.)
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Old 05-25-16, 08:32 AM
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i installed one of these in my FD and it seems to work great. i did a track day a couple weeks back, ran it down to 1/8th tank with no problems. i used the 3" x 8" part, which fits in the baffled area of a stock fuel tank

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/16-108

im running a walbro 400, and I adapted it using a modified subaru pickup i had laying around, which happened to fit the walbro perfectly

Here is a pic of the oem subaru pickup before modification:


i basically cut off the 90 deg turn and clamped a iirc 5/8" hose to what was left, then connected that to the hydramat fitting. you will have to raise the fuel pump a little for the hydramat to sit on the bottom of the tank. im sure there is a better solution, but this seems to be working for me
Attached Thumbnails
Fuel Slosh Issues Part 2. New solution by Holley revealed.-subaru_pickup.png  

Last edited by gxl90rx7; 05-25-16 at 08:35 AM.
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