BlueTuner

Ok, so heres whats going on,

Painted my UIM and forgot about the grounds, so grounds weren't grounding,
Car ran, but ran kinda bad
Turned car off, and then wouldn't start, it would crank but no ignition, lights wouldn't work either.
(figured this out because my intake would touch the frame, everything would work)
Fixed the grounds that are UIM to Frame,
Car will start but fans wont turn off until dead battery
If i remove the ground from UIM to frame, i can hear one of the relays for the fans tick
Its one of the bottom ones, im not sure which one because they got moved around,
If i remove the relay, fans off, relay in, fans run till battery dies.
messed with some wires, just tightened and jiggled,
Now if i remove the UIM to Frame, the fans still run, removing relay kills fans
Checked all fuses and relays, Really need some help here. Removing 60amp fuse for fans kills the fans, removing battery negative kills fans as well, removing any of the other 3 relays wont kill the fans only that bottom one.

I believe that its grounding somewhere and its getting power or such. REALLY NEED HELP

only mods are PFC, HKS turbo timer, and radio, thats related to electric.

ttmott

iTrader: (1)

Check to see if your car has the fan recall mod behind the ECU. That would be the little black box and wire harness that patches between two connectors. I believe there is also a ground wire from the little black box attached to the ECU mounting bracket

Disconnect the little box from the two connectors and connect the car's wire harness connectors to them selves. In other words remove the patch.

If the problem no longer persists you fried the fan recall modification.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

First off, read my thread about the stock fan control system.

Either you have a stuck fan relay or the stock fan thermoswitch behind the water pump housing has a bare wire and it's shorting to ground.

Regardless, time to ditch the fan recall crap, that will stop the fans running with the key off. That is all covered in my fan thread.

Dale

BlueTuner

i know its not a relay stuck, i swapped the relays with ones i know that are good, forgot to mention that. i have disconnected that box behind the ecu and the fans still run.

BlueTuner

ok, cant figure it out,
I have disconnected the green plug on the back of the filler, the thermoswitch and fans still are on.

to kill the fans, i have to disconnect the plug from the relays that have a red/yellow, a blue, and a green/black.

Any help would be great.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Your intake manifold grounding isn't the problem. Read what Dale said. As for the igntion and lights, thats another problem alltogether. Nothing to do with the grounding on the uim. We ceramic and powerdercoat them and it is not an issue.

BlueTuner

Ok, everything but the fans are fixed. The fans still stay on. What it looks like is the relay that has the thick red and yellow wire is the relay that is staying on. I have unplugged everything related to fans and the fans still stay on. Only when I disconnect the relay do the fans shut off. And the fans are on high mode. Anymore ideas will help, if I can't figure it out I'm just gonna bring it to a rx7 specialist in my area.

wstrohm

A complete removal of the fan mod requires what I posted in posts #67 and #68 of Dale's thread.

BlueTuner

i dont want to remove the fan mod, i just want my fans to be off when the cars not hot. So by battery isnt dead every 30 mins.

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

Listen to this, especially the last paragraph.....

.....And this will be fixed.

-J

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Haha, Jonathan knows this, we pulled the fan recall crap out of Kenny's car in a Home Depot parking lot .

Dale

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i haven't really seen them this problematic though unless something is obviously not hooked up right.

keep in mind, disconnecting the ECU will trigger the fans to run and stay running via the recall kit which adds a black box relay right behind the ECU. i suspect your second ground to the ECU on the block at the rat's nest isn't attached.

BlueTuner

Fan Recall pulled, FANS STILL ON

NEED HELP

wstrohm

Just checking... you removed both the underhood and in-cabin fan mod cables, as in posts #67 and #68 of the link I posted above?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

could be the RF main harness has fallen off the retaining clips and is dragging on the wheel in the RF wheel well, inspect for frayed wiring/worn through fender liner.

typically this is a LF wheel well issue but it CAN happen on either side with larger wheels and lowered vehicle more easily.

ttmott

iTrader: (1)

OK this isn't rocket science...

Recall mod disconnected and removed, right?
Fans running right? OK, pull the 15 amp Meter fuse; do the fans keep running?

If they keep running then it isn't the relay coils or their grounding circuits from the heater control unit, ECM, or thermo-switch. This would isolate the issue to a bad relay (one of four possibilities).

It they shut off when the fuse is pulled then there is a short to ground at one of four possible control locations which will be easy to diag.

Let us know the outcome.....

BlueTuner

wstrohm, what is removed under the hood, i cant tell by the pictures, under cabin, the black box, blue plug and white plug are removed.

ttmontt, which 15amp fuse, is it in the cabin or under hood, a specific place like "3rd down 2 over under driver side" would help me out a lot.

thanks

BlueTuner

ttmont, i figured it out, I didnt see the "meter" part

BlueTuner

pulled the 15 amp fuse, fans still on, removed the under hood fan mod, the extended harness, FANS OFF

NEW PROBLEM

When the car is on, FANS ARE ON FULL BLAST

Better than me getting out of the car to turn it on, but still gonna be bad for the fans.
this is with the fuse plugged in.

ttmott

iTrader: (1)

Ok - make sure the harnesses are put together without the fan recall mods.
Put the 15 amp METER fuse back in.
Assume here that the fans are running.
Remove the 60 amp COOLING FAN fuse.
The fans should stop - this would verify the primary fan power is wired correctly (for now).
Now let's get the relays straightened out:

There are three fan speeds to keep in mind... and as we go through the following mark each relay (tape and sharpie)

1. Look for the 10 gauge Yellow with White stripe wire going into one of the relays. This is Coolant Fan Relay No. 1. This relay is operated from your Air Conditioner control panel. This relay will operate both fans and by it's self will be a slow speed. With other relays engaged 2and4 and/or 3 the fan speed increases.
   
2. Look for the 10 gauge Red with Yellow stripe wire going into one of the relays. This is Coolant Fan Relay No. 2. This relay is operated by the ECM and only operates fan number 1 and by it's self the fan will operate on slow speed but with other relays (1 and/or 3) also on the fan speed increases. This relay is operated simultaneously with Relay No. 4.
   
3. Look for the 10 gauge White wire going into one of the relays. This is Coolant Fan Relay No. 4. This relay is operated by the ECM and only operates fan number 2 and by it's self the fan will operate on slow speed but with other relays (1 and/or 3) also on the fan speed increases. This relay is operated simultaneously with Relay No. 2
   
4. Look for the 10 gauge Blue with Orange stripe wire going into the last relay. This is Coolant Fan Relay No. 3. This relay operates both fans and just like the others, by it's self will operate the fans on slow speed. This relay is operated by the Water Thermoswitch. Like the other relays fan speed increases as others are energized when this relay is on.

Now that's out of the way:
Reinstall the 60 amp COOLING FAN fuse
Fans are on - right?
Remove the 15 amp METER fuse.
Fans still on - right?

1. Remove Coolant Fan Relay No. 3 from it's socket. Do the fans reduce in speed or turn off? If so that relay is defective. If no Change next step... Don't reinstall relay at this time.
2. Remove Coolant Fan Relay No. 1 from it's socket. Again do the fans reduce in speed or turn off? If so that relay is defective. Don't reinstall relay at this time.
   
3. If the one or both fans are running at this point pull relays 2 and/or 4. At this point there is no way the fans could be running if wired per factory diagram.

At this point let us know what is happening...

wstrohm

Next to the fan relays on the passenger side, you should see a bundle of cables stuck down in a space near the fender liner and connected to the relays. If you disconnect the harness connectors at the relays, you will then see that the harness connectors are part of a separate (fan mod) harness which is connected in series with the original harness. If you disconnect the other ends of the fan mod harness, you can reconnect the original harness to the relays. My pics show the fan mod harness before and after removal. First pic is what you see after unbolting the fan relay bracket and pulling the harness out from its cubbyhole. Second pic shows the fan mod harness disconnected and lying on the airbox. Third pic shows the cleaned-up original harness before reconnecting to the fan relays.

BlueTuner

15 amp fuse out, fans dont run,

ALSO Acedntly riped off the wire from the plug of the thermoswitch, fans still running at same speed.

How to reattach wire????

ttmott

iTrader: (1)

So, disregard the previous trouble shooting....
FYI - The underhood part of the recall mod bypasses the ignition switch for relays 1, 2, and 4 and routes them directly to the battery via fuse. When you removed the underhood part of the recall mod you re-established the relays to the ignition switch. This makes sense when now the fuse is in and fans don't run but when the ign switch is in the run position the fans run.

So, now it looks as if there is nothing wrong with the relays but a problem with the coil grounding legs.

First things first: the broken wire - is it brown with a red stripe? if not it is not the thermoswitch wire but the engine temperature sender wire. Need to get that fixed first.

OK - now METER fuse installed and ignition switch to run; fans running right?

This step checks the main cooling circuits:

1. Engine must be cool for the next step.
2. With a voltage meter measure voltage between socket "TFA" in the Data Link Connector and ground.
3. If the voltage reads 0 or close to 0 there is a problem with Relay 2 and relay 4 coil grounding wiring from the relays back to the ECM Pin 3D or the ECM is bad.
4. If the voltage reads 12 volts or close to that the harness component is OK.
5. If you are reading 12 volts place a jumper wire between the TFA socket and ground - do the fans increase in speed - they should.

Next - the following checks if the AC control is OK.

1. Make sure the AC switch is OFF - also this car is a manual trans right?
2. Pull Coolant Fan Relay No. 1 from it's socket. That relay will have the Yellow with White stripe 10 gauge wire going to it.
3. With a voltage meter measure the voltage between the relay socket that has the Violet with Pink stripe and battery +.
4. If you are reading 12 volts or close to that there is a problem with that part of the wire harness back to the AC On / OFF switch or the switch is defective or wiring back to ECM Pin1E through the AC circuit.
5. If you are reading 0 volts or close to that the harness will probably be OK.

More to follow after this is completed....

BlueTuner

ya lost me at step 2, what is tfa and what ground, im good with mechanical, but on electrical im like a 3 year old.

wstrohm

These are terminals inside the Diagnostic ("Data Link") Connector, which is located on the driver's side of the engine compartment. Inside the lid of the D.C. is a label identifying the terminals. Be sure the "GND" location you pick (there are two) actually has a metal terminal installed.