M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Run the above URL/web-link through babelfish.altavista.com

Here's what I got.

BTW: 80M-yen is about $769K US-dollars.

:-) neil
=====

Trade name Corporation trust TRUST
Establishment 1977 April
Capital 80,000,000 Yen
Business contents 1. Development production sale of trust brand
2. Development production sale of the trust brand
3. Development production sale of グレッディブランド
4. Development production sale of grex brand
5. Development production sale of grey serve land
Chief Executive Officer Masashi Mitsuru Hayakawa
Head office/branch office * Head office
〒 289-1605 Chiba prefecture Sanbu Gun Shibayama Cho mark 3155 address 5
TEL 0479-77-3000 (representation) FAX 0479-77-0947
* The Osaka branch office
〒 578-0983 Shimojima city Yoshida the Osaka prefecture Higashi Osaka 7-43 TEL 0729-66-4833
* The Sendai place of business
〒 984-0015 Miyagi prefecture Sendai city Wakabayashi Ku wholesale trade town 5 Chome 2-1 TEL 022-782-8581
* Morioka place of business
〒 020-0816 Iwate prefecture Morioka city will house town 3-28 ME will house building 3F TEL 019-625-6622
* North Kanto place of business
〒 321-0912 Tochigi prefecture Uto Miyaiti Ishii Cho 3373-3 TEL 028-656-5681
* Yokohama place of business
〒 246-0015 Kanagawa prefecture Yokohama city Seya Ku Hongo 3-1-17 ニ Saito building 1F
TEL 045-304-5566
* The Nagoya place of business
〒 465-0055 Aichi prefecture Nagoya city Meito Ku spirit child cell 1-503 TEL 052-705-0010
* The Fukuoka place of business
〒 818-0132 the Fukuoka prefecture Dazaifu city-state amount 1-8-1 TEL 092-928-1156
Principal customer 3 trust groups
In addition 3,000 corporations
Trust
Group * Corporation trust Sapporo
〒 003-0834 the Hokkaido Sapporo city Shiraishi Ku Hokugo 4 provision 8 Chome 1st 3 TEL 011-875-1668
* U.S.A.
GReddy Performance Products and Inc.
9 VANDERBILT IRVINE and CA92718 U.S.A. TEL (949) 588-8300
* Corporation Gee earl
〒 260-0001 Chiba prefecture Chiba city Chuo Ku capital town 1285-6 TEL 043-232-2577

Monkey-FD3S

I think i can come to the conclusion from this thread that....

AMERICA SUCKS

I have never heard such a load of rubbish in all my life.... I can't believe you would ever get pulled for a Racing Beat.

Originally when my car came in from Japan it had an APEXi Super Megaphone which was so quiet you couldn't really hear it. Now i run a Kakimoto Full Mega N1, Unsilenced De-Cat & Greddy downpipe - oh the joy of an early FD [means i don't need a cat in the UK lol]

How do you have these cars making 450+ BHP when you have to run exhausts which are stock in appearance and function, meet CARB regulations, etc. etc.

Sounds like a grim deal. I mean here it rains all the time but i'd rather have that than some overzelous cop trying to ticket me.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

BTW: there is a way to still run a down-pipe, just get your old one and punch-out the element, OR purchase the factory OEM one that doesn't have the element.

:-) neil

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

The Greddy.com sites show the below as VA dealers.

Did you purchase your muffler from one of them, or did your shop get it from one of them ?

Can you have one of these dealers provide you with a written quote for the same muffler (you can show that is being offerred for sale in Virginia) ?

:-) neil


VA
In-Line Perf. Products
7958 B Cameron Brown CT
Springfield, VA 22153
(703) 644-1788

Evolution Autosports
13903 Metrotech Drive
Chantilly, VA 20151
(703) 961-9090
www.evolutionautosports.com/

Vertex Motorsports
1524-F Spring Hill Rd.
McLean, VA 22102
(703) 883-0403
www.vertexmotorsports.com/

Performance Tuning, Inc.
8412 Kao Circle
Manassas, VA 20110
(877) 788-6464
www.ptuning.com

JGY Customs
263 Nicks Creek Road
Atkins, VA 24311
(276) 782-9100
www.JGYcustoms.com

cosmicbang

As we can plainly see, the law does NOT prohibit aftermarket exhausts, and by the rules of law and evidence, a cop would have to prove that your exhaust is NOT "comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment."

The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove the exhaust is not comparable. However in court, often the judge will not hold them to it. Therefore it is critical to be well-prepared and have a good attorney. In preparing a defense, one might ask: What characteristics of the exhaust did the officer observe which make if not comparable? What sort of inspection did he do of the exhaust? Did he open the hood, crawl under the car, or use a mirror to inspect the system?

Then, one could ask the officer how he knows what the OEM characteristics are. Is he a trained Mazda service technician or does he have access to the specifications of a stock exhaust? Is he an automotive engineer? To get technical, have the specifications for a stock or Mazdaspeed exhaust (which is standard factory equipment) handy, along with the specifications for your aftermarket exhaust. Then, you can rebut any dissimilar comparisons and point out similarities between your system and the OEM (number, size, and type of each component, materials, dimensions, pressures, noise level, etc.). As M104-AMG pointed out, be careful what you reveal. You want to establish that your exhaust is more similar than it is different. You could also introduce any statements by the aftermarket manufacturer to the effect that the system is comparable to a stock system. Again, be careful what you introduce.

If you try to fight this type of ticket yourself, there is a good chance you will lose. Judges will allow police and prosecutors to introduce inadmissable evidence, heresay, and interpretations of the law contrary to what is on the books. The average person is not going to know about the burden of proof, admissibility of evidence, cross-examination of witnesses, and when to object.

The problem is not the law, it is the authorities who do not follow the law, and the system which allows it to happen. The system also discourages people from following through with appeals, leading to them simply giving up and paying the fine.

The bottom line is under the existing law, a cop saying an exhaust noise is excessive is sufficient. You can challenge that too, but it would be easier to challenge the ticket based solely on the non-stock allegation. If the law is changed, do not expect it to change the overall pattern of police and prosecutor's behavior. They will continue to write bogus tickets and railroad convictions to enrich the treasury. (We are F@*#ed)

Kento

The bottom line is this: since you aren't in a jury trial, you are basically at the mercy of the judge and court. He can simply railroad you if he feels like it. And when enriching the local government is the main purpose, you can bet he'll feel like it often.

Section8

iTrader: (6)

Damn, I'm glad I don't have to drive my FD through Fairfax very often, even though I still have the stock exhaust.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Oh plz lol. I'm complaining based on principle. My exhaust isn't that loud at idle and while driving normally. It's got a real low drone, that's all. At WOT, OMG, I'd expect for the cop to be waiting for me 2 miles away to pull me over, and I wouldn't complain. I'd pay, and go. But that still doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain about them pulling some BS by profiling cars... You know I've gotten pulled over before just for LOOKING at a cop? That's right...just because I turned and looked at him, and he spent 15 minutes looking for something to justify giving me a ticket for, when he finally saw I didn't have front tags (he never saw the front of my car until after he pulled me over and walked around the car). Yea, I can complain alright...

Neil, I really do appreicate you gathering the info etc, but I'm not sure where you got the idea that I have a Greddy exhaust I run an HKS CF Ti. The only dealer in my area is:

Altered Atmosphere Motorsport
8011 Cessna Ave
Gaithersburg, MD 20879
(301) 519-0788
www.alteredatmosphere.com

George, I totally feel what you're saying. There's a dichotomy between what IS and what it SHOULD be. As I said previously, many times I've proved my case beyond a reasonable doubt, and the officer never established prima fascia evidence for his case, but the judge sees him, and sees me (a kid), and basically gives it to me nice. In fact, I've actually clearly established prima fascia evidence, and the judge replied, "You know what? I believe the Officer (saw what he saw)" and that's that lol. Such bull...

I guess I need to be more aggressive w/ my cross-examination of the Officer. I've actually lessed that some simply because I've found that Officers will very easily lie on the stand, so you can't rely on them answering the question truthfully, as you expect. And I really don't know how to resolve that issue.

You also brought up a GREAT idea. I wanna get the specs on any large single tip loud Mazdaspeed exhausts, and compare them to the specs of some popular aftermarket exhausts. If the specs are in our favor, that would prove to be invaluable because it is a tangible irrefutable document that you'd enter as evidence, and the Judge has no choice but to accept it (or so things should go lol. You should have no prob in Circuit Court w/ such a document tho). Anyone interested in this idea? Trying to get the specs of a few loud large Mazdaspeed exhausts, and then some common aftermarket ones? We can get a spreadsheet going showing the various specs, submit it to the various companies (Mazdaspeed, Greddy, HKS, RB, etc) to certify that the specs are correct (or just print them out off their webite or have it on their stationary etc), and have a document we can keep on-hand to provide to anyone who gets these bogus exhaust tickets in VA??? I think that would ROCK. Any takers?

Kento

As I was saying before...
"Tags"? You mean you're required to have registration tags on the front license plates in VA? Damn, even the "Socialist Republik of Kalifornia" doesn't require that...

Section8

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, it really sucks. What pisses me off even more about it is, there was actually legislation in the VA State Senate to end the requirement for the front tag about a year ago, but it got shelved.

I still don't run a front tag though, I'll just eat the cost of the ticket.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I'm w/ Joey. Pray and go, and if necessary, pay and go

Kento, you know that cars that pass emissions here would STILL fail Cali smog tests? We'd have to run straight alcohol to pass your standards haha. Oh and I've seen the IR/laser emissions targeted enforcement things your 5-oh stage. "Oh there goes a car w/ a lot of exhaust...GET 'EM!" lol. Now THAT'S insane.

Fatman0203

BTW After read this I have the hook up with Analog and Digital Sound Meters, Analog for 55$ and Digital for 75$, you can carry one with you and prove that your car complies with state laws (since the cop probably doesnt have one). Or get the ticket, and then test it, and then prove it in court. Let me know.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

If any NoVa peeps are down for the idea about making that document for legal/comparable exhausts, I think that sound meter would be a great investment. Get one, get a bunch of FDs w/ diff exhausts together, take measurements, and be done w/ it

cosmicbang

I have been having similar ideas... But under the existing law, that would only get you half-way there. You could still be convicted for excessively loud.

One of the problems with the proposed bill in the other thread is people have no baseline from which to evaluate exhaust noise. When contemplating changing the law, it would behoove one to gather baseline measurements. SEMA has suggested that the manufacturers could provide certification that their exhausts are below 95 decibels. (95 decibels is an arbitrary number chosen because the bill is based on a California law which also uses a 95 decibel limit.) If you think about this for a minute, a catch becomes evident: modifying an engine will affect the exhaust noise. Therefore manufacturers would almost certainly include a caveat in their certifications.

Back to your idea, I think the best course is to gather data on various vehicle and exhaust combinations, measured under controlled conditions according to the SAE procedures. This undertaking should be sponsored by a group or organization that has only motorists' interests at stake. (See the other thread.) The resulting data could be used in court, but also in proposing a change to the law.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

I posted the Greddy info because the originator of this post, Black97VR4, has a signature that says he has a Greddy SP cat-back.

:-) neil

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Yea but who cares about Black97VR4 anyways? He won't give me his Knightsports headlights...so forget him

Fatman0203

Let me know what you need and I can get it. Maybe you can use a stock FD exhaust as a base line?

cosmicbang

In order for the measurments to be meaningful, they should be conducted according to some standard protocol. In the other thread, the proposed bill referred to the SAE J1169 standard for measurement of exhaust sound levels. The procedure is not quite as simple as holding your handy sound meter up to the tailpipe, but not too elaborate either. It might make sense to use it, since it might show up next year in a proposed law in Virginia or even other states.

I have a copy of the SAE J1169 standard. It is sold by the SAE for $57, but if the Commonwealth of Va is going to refer to it in the law, then IMHO it should be available for the public to view and refer to. ('nuff said.)

It contains a general comment that says "it is recommended that persons technically trained and experienced in current sound measurement techniques select the test instrumentation and conduct the test." Not exactly sure how much training would be required, but that shouldn't be a roadblock.

Kento

Ramy, I'll be one of the first to laugh at the stuff our state does, but I don't spread misinformation based on rumors and inaccuracies. There is no "targeted enforcement" with "IR/laser"; you don't get a fix-it ticket in the mail because they "detected your car with w/a lot of exhaust" (actually, what is "a lot" of exhaust?). Despite the paranoia spread by those who have "read" about them or have been "told by a friend of a friend" about them, those infrared (um, you can't read elements with a laser) emissions measurements are a program that's been run for years by the state BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) section of CARB to see which particular areas have the most emissions. Yeah, some of the roadside checkpoints take a photo of your license-- but that's to see where you live, so they can determine which areas have problems.

There would be such an uproar if the BAR tried to use it to issue "a lot of exhaust" tickets that it would immediately get legally attacked by ACLU, etc.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Kento, my fault if I read false info. But someone had actually posted this and the pics of it on the forum... Besides, lets not get a East Side vs. West Side thing going, b/c we all know the East Side is def the place to be hehe

Fatman0203

These are the two meters that I mention the digital and analog.
Digital:http://www.extech.com/instrument/pro...50/407730.html

Analog: http://www.extech.com/instrument/pro...50/407706.html

PM me if someone is interested, I can probably get a better discount with a group buy.