Sucessful REW into a FC thread
12-13-07, 07:19 PM
#1
Rotary Freak
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Sucessful REW into a FC thread
I had hope to come on here and brag about my REW swap, as well as do some kind of write up.
Well I got the engine in and after about 50 miles I pushed it to much as I was tuning and lost the rear rotor. I had add fuel throughout the map But I guess it wasn't enough. I also Had the boost controller turned down But not enough
Im a big fan of getting the car professionally tuned even more so now.
I have been from FLA (Rolo LOpez)to Del (Steve Kan)to get it tuned.
Anyway I got in a hurry to feel the power of the 35r turbo and as soon as I hit 4k rpm It broke the tires loose and zoomed to 7450 RPM and 15 PSI boost (data on the Microtech)
Tuning lesson learned the hard way
The engine was a streetported REW from Rotorsports about 4k miles on her, She came from the fuscha RX (rotorsownu7)
I used the 13bt front cover, CAS ,Oil pan and mounts.
I had the center iron Drilled and tapped as well as fab a drivers side mount.
I used the exsisting Microtech and sensors.
I also use a oilpan brace from Banzi Racing and motormounts and trasns mounts.
I used a T2 trans, act clutch, Supra pump KG rails and 4 1600 inj FROM exsisting set-up.
So Im currently debating on the rebuild process.
The old set-up was a13bt and hybred turbo with 305 rwhp. My goal is 400.
I hope to take more pics during the uninstall and rebuild
Johny
Well I got the engine in and after about 50 miles I pushed it to much as I was tuning and lost the rear rotor. I had add fuel throughout the map But I guess it wasn't enough. I also Had the boost controller turned down But not enough
Im a big fan of getting the car professionally tuned even more so now.
I have been from FLA (Rolo LOpez)to Del (Steve Kan)to get it tuned.
Anyway I got in a hurry to feel the power of the 35r turbo and as soon as I hit 4k rpm It broke the tires loose and zoomed to 7450 RPM and 15 PSI boost (data on the Microtech)
Tuning lesson learned the hard way
The engine was a streetported REW from Rotorsports about 4k miles on her, She came from the fuscha RX (rotorsownu7)
I used the 13bt front cover, CAS ,Oil pan and mounts.
I had the center iron Drilled and tapped as well as fab a drivers side mount.
I used the exsisting Microtech and sensors.
I also use a oilpan brace from Banzi Racing and motormounts and trasns mounts.
I used a T2 trans, act clutch, Supra pump KG rails and 4 1600 inj FROM exsisting set-up.
So Im currently debating on the rebuild process.
The old set-up was a13bt and hybred turbo with 305 rwhp. My goal is 400.
I hope to take more pics during the uninstall and rebuild
Johny
RHD??
12-14-07, 12:22 AM
#7
So sorry to hear that man... another cautionary tale. Just another reason for me to be really careful when I tune my ****. You should have run straight wastegate pressure (no boost controller) until you were positive it was dialed in at low boost. That's what I'm doing (plus I will have 110 in the tank at all times). 15psi on 35R is at least high 300s to the wheels.
I don't know anything about a microtech but I know on a power FC you can change the rear injector lag time to richen it up, because the rear rotor always runs hotter and leaner than the front rotter.
I don't know anything about a microtech but I know on a power FC you can change the rear injector lag time to richen it up, because the rear rotor always runs hotter and leaner than the front rotter.
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12-14-07, 06:32 AM
#8
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Here's the car it came from and the car it went into.
It really wasn't a difficult swap since I started out with the microtech.
Ray, definatly do the dyno. Its too much to watch hand controller, wideband , boostcontroller/gage. Oh and also the road.
The problem is there are no dynos up here but VIR is putting one in. Its going to be expensive though.
also Its easy to look back at what I should have done
The water /meth inj never came on. It has a pressure switch That is Kind of unreliable.
My turbosmart boostcontroller has a set point to which I can controll the exact pressure the pump comes on. I had planned to do this but was too ancious to ride
Kevin, The t2 throttle cable works fine. with this swap. I just ran it along the firewall .
The FC oil pan is good too although I had to drill a couple bolt holes in the rear iron.
Johny
It really wasn't a difficult swap since I started out with the microtech.
Ray, definatly do the dyno. Its too much to watch hand controller, wideband , boostcontroller/gage. Oh and also the road.
The problem is there are no dynos up here but VIR is putting one in. Its going to be expensive though.
also Its easy to look back at what I should have done
The water /meth inj never came on. It has a pressure switch That is Kind of unreliable.
My turbosmart boostcontroller has a set point to which I can controll the exact pressure the pump comes on. I had planned to do this but was too ancious to ride
Kevin, The t2 throttle cable works fine. with this swap. I just ran it along the firewall .
The FC oil pan is good too although I had to drill a couple bolt holes in the rear iron.
Johny
08-09-08, 08:52 AM
#9
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When we last left off In Dec. I had blown the rear rotor.
OK It was infact chipped and ruined the housing.
I opted to only rebuild the rear rotor since the engine only had 8k miles or so.
We got it installed and after 47 times we got her started I idled it for about 20 min.
Here are my issues and questions
1. Water thermo. not reading ( which is why it flooded so many times it was at 0.0 C ( Adding 72% more fuel than normal)
*should be an easy fix
2. Oil line return on turbo * easy
3 Wire a relay to control water/ meth injection. I'm going to let the Turbosmart boost controller turn on the pump, as opposed to the cheesy pressure sensor that is hit or miss. ( had it worked in DEC I wouldn't be writing this)
^^^
The turbosmart boost controller is one of my favorite toys
4. Here is the biggie I'm only running 15 0r less PSI oil pressure IT DOES rise on acceleration but not past 30 I haven't revved past 3k or so
Key points .
I KNOW the oil is diluted
I did use hyperlube ( Oil stabilizer)
I installed a 2nd gen Oil pressure regulator ( I don't know why I read some where that it would raise the pressure)
It is the stock gauge.
Oil pressure was fine in dec and front cover/oil pump was not removed during this rebuild
oil is 10/W 40 rotella
Here is what I'm proposing to do Get a duel filter set up from Racing beat so I may hook up mechanical gage
change oil
possible change regulator
My questions Should I change oil before I do anything else?
Is it OK to idle it or drive the 100 hundred mile before oil change.
Should I be concerned? What oil or additives are best?
Thanks
OK It was infact chipped and ruined the housing.
I opted to only rebuild the rear rotor since the engine only had 8k miles or so.
We got it installed and after 47 times we got her started I idled it for about 20 min.
Here are my issues and questions
1. Water thermo. not reading ( which is why it flooded so many times it was at 0.0 C ( Adding 72% more fuel than normal)
*should be an easy fix
2. Oil line return on turbo * easy
3 Wire a relay to control water/ meth injection. I'm going to let the Turbosmart boost controller turn on the pump, as opposed to the cheesy pressure sensor that is hit or miss. ( had it worked in DEC I wouldn't be writing this)
^^^
The turbosmart boost controller is one of my favorite toys
4. Here is the biggie I'm only running 15 0r less PSI oil pressure IT DOES rise on acceleration but not past 30 I haven't revved past 3k or so
Key points .
I KNOW the oil is diluted
I did use hyperlube ( Oil stabilizer)
I installed a 2nd gen Oil pressure regulator ( I don't know why I read some where that it would raise the pressure)
It is the stock gauge.
Oil pressure was fine in dec and front cover/oil pump was not removed during this rebuild
oil is 10/W 40 rotella
Here is what I'm proposing to do Get a duel filter set up from Racing beat so I may hook up mechanical gage
change oil
possible change regulator
My questions Should I change oil before I do anything else?
Is it OK to idle it or drive the 100 hundred mile before oil change.
Should I be concerned? What oil or additives are best?
Thanks
08-09-08, 10:41 AM
#10
Johny, good to hear your project is making progress again. First, what is your turbo setup? Is this an FD turbo manifold? Oil and water cooler turbo or just oil cooled?
1. You are running your old microtech from the FC engine, correct? Is it a GM coolant temp sensor or the OEM denso one? Did anything change for this sensor from your previous setup? The FD and FC thermosensors have the same resistance scale, GM is going to be different. Does the car warm up properly and are you sure you have no air in the system? Disconnect the thermosensor and stick it in a cup of hot water (still in the harness), that is if you can fit something back there, and see what the display reads on the Microtech. Otherwise bench test the resistance in a pot of boiling water.
2. Oil return line: these are VERY tedious to get right. What is your current setup now? You blocked off one of the oil return ports for the stock turbos right (stock rear turbo return line? Don't remember)?
Then, generally speaking (depending on how turbo is clocked), you want the line to go:
10AN flange on bottom of turbo --> probably a 45 degree swivel 10AN fitting on the hose --> hose just long enough to reach the front cover. If it's too long the oil will back up. cutting it to length is VERY TEDIOUS! --> straight 10AN fitting on the end of the hose --> 10AN flange on the block.
All the oil line stuff is available from ATPturbo.com , except maybe the flange for the block (not sure for an FD).
3. Can't the microtech control the water injection? I know a Haltech can at least. Just find the pin that it's supposed to come from, and use that signal as a ground to trigger the relay based on conditions you set in the computer. I personally would do it that way because you want it to turn on based on the amount of load the engine sees, not the boost controller. Pressure sensors/gauges in cars (mechanical gauge vs MAP sensor vs boost controller etc) never seem to agree exactly, and they are always in different units which makes it confusing.
The FD oil pressure regulator is higher pressure, you got it backwards. Put the FD oil pressure regulator back in. Install a restrictor in your oil feed line (.060" ? double check that) if you don't have one or it will probably smoke.
Are you SURE THE TIMING IN THE MICROTECH AND ON THE PULLEY AGREE? Are you using an aftermarket underdrive pulley? Given the problems you have had before I would like quadruple check this ****. I know it's a little different procedure on an FD front cover because there is only one timing mark. Maybe Aaron Cake has more tips on this timing stuff, I don't know the Microtech. I use an FD Power FC on my car so I know a little bit about the similarities and differences between the FC and FD engine wiring.
With an FD oil pressure regulator and no eccentric shaft thermal pellet your startup oil pressure should be over 60 psi and drop into the 20's (at least on my **** autometer gauge) at idle depending on what your idle speed is set to. During cruise it should be like 60-75psi. I had mine set to 850 with no BAC.
1. You are running your old microtech from the FC engine, correct? Is it a GM coolant temp sensor or the OEM denso one? Did anything change for this sensor from your previous setup? The FD and FC thermosensors have the same resistance scale, GM is going to be different. Does the car warm up properly and are you sure you have no air in the system? Disconnect the thermosensor and stick it in a cup of hot water (still in the harness), that is if you can fit something back there, and see what the display reads on the Microtech. Otherwise bench test the resistance in a pot of boiling water.
2. Oil return line: these are VERY tedious to get right. What is your current setup now? You blocked off one of the oil return ports for the stock turbos right (stock rear turbo return line? Don't remember)?
Then, generally speaking (depending on how turbo is clocked), you want the line to go:
10AN flange on bottom of turbo --> probably a 45 degree swivel 10AN fitting on the hose --> hose just long enough to reach the front cover. If it's too long the oil will back up. cutting it to length is VERY TEDIOUS! --> straight 10AN fitting on the end of the hose --> 10AN flange on the block.
All the oil line stuff is available from ATPturbo.com , except maybe the flange for the block (not sure for an FD).
3. Can't the microtech control the water injection? I know a Haltech can at least. Just find the pin that it's supposed to come from, and use that signal as a ground to trigger the relay based on conditions you set in the computer. I personally would do it that way because you want it to turn on based on the amount of load the engine sees, not the boost controller. Pressure sensors/gauges in cars (mechanical gauge vs MAP sensor vs boost controller etc) never seem to agree exactly, and they are always in different units which makes it confusing.
The FD oil pressure regulator is higher pressure, you got it backwards. Put the FD oil pressure regulator back in. Install a restrictor in your oil feed line (.060" ? double check that) if you don't have one or it will probably smoke.
Are you SURE THE TIMING IN THE MICROTECH AND ON THE PULLEY AGREE? Are you using an aftermarket underdrive pulley? Given the problems you have had before I would like quadruple check this ****. I know it's a little different procedure on an FD front cover because there is only one timing mark. Maybe Aaron Cake has more tips on this timing stuff, I don't know the Microtech. I use an FD Power FC on my car so I know a little bit about the similarities and differences between the FC and FD engine wiring.
With an FD oil pressure regulator and no eccentric shaft thermal pellet your startup oil pressure should be over 60 psi and drop into the 20's (at least on my **** autometer gauge) at idle depending on what your idle speed is set to. During cruise it should be like 60-75psi. I had mine set to 850 with no BAC.
08-09-08, 12:20 PM
#12
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To elebrate The sensor is the exact one I was using since IM runng a FC front cover and waterpump set-up . so its either the sensor or wire.
The oil return line is probably the flang gasket. the an line lines up well it has the 45 bend and all.
I think I put the FC regulator to lower oil pressure a bit. The pan was leaking and I wanted to lower pressure to help eliminate this. It has been a while.
And the mircotech only has one AUX ( LT8) so That turns on my cooling fan.
The boost controller will do nicely for inj.
I still have the eccentric pellt ( Stock)
go over the bypass method and Ill put that on my list Its just a washer ? right
As far as timing I did the sparkplug hole trick. Trust me Ill be checking it again before I boost
The oil return line is probably the flang gasket. the an line lines up well it has the 45 bend and all.
I think I put the FC regulator to lower oil pressure a bit. The pan was leaking and I wanted to lower pressure to help eliminate this. It has been a while.
And the mircotech only has one AUX ( LT8) so That turns on my cooling fan.
The boost controller will do nicely for inj.
I still have the eccentric pellt ( Stock)
go over the bypass method and Ill put that on my list Its just a washer ? right
As far as timing I did the sparkplug hole trick. Trust me Ill be checking it again before I boost
08-09-08, 05:26 PM
#13
For the oil return line, get an OEM gasket from Mazda (front cover side is leaking right?), clean the mating surface, and put a thin layer of Permatex Ultra Black RTV on both sides of the gasket. That's what I did for mine and it never leaked. My oil lines never gave me trouble once I got all the stainless lines fabbed correctly, but if you have a kit then it's even easier.
have you read this thread about verifying TDC?
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/unsure-tdc-724942/
have you read this thread about verifying TDC?
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/unsure-tdc-724942/
09-08-08, 06:53 AM
#14
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IT looks the same
I have logged 200 miles on her. I had to rebuild the rear after blowing the apex seal ( MY FAULT) Im using the turbosmart boost controller to controll water/ meth inj.
In the pic you will see I don't have couplers on I/C piping Im not taking a chance on boosting
Johny
In the pic you will see I don't have couplers on I/C piping Im not taking a chance on boosting
Johny
09-09-08, 08:29 PM
#18
Lives on the Forum
Let's see...
You say you know you're running oil full of fuel...
Why don't you do an oil change if you knew this???
Then you claim the FC OPR raises oil pressure...which it doesn't.
Then you run an oil additive...which is a waste of time.
Then you say you wanted to run lower oil pressure cause of oil leaking from the oil pan...which oil pressure has nothing to do with "pressure" in the oil pan.
You're right.
It is a waste of time commenting on your thread...
-Ted
You say you know you're running oil full of fuel...
Why don't you do an oil change if you knew this???
Then you claim the FC OPR raises oil pressure...which it doesn't.
Then you run an oil additive...which is a waste of time.
Then you say you wanted to run lower oil pressure cause of oil leaking from the oil pan...which oil pressure has nothing to do with "pressure" in the oil pan.
You're right.
It is a waste of time commenting on your thread...
-Ted
09-09-08, 08:56 PM
#19
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
wow, helpful as ever. What would the forum do without Ted and his helpful posts. Who could forget such gems and car saving advice as this
NO
-Ted
Stay in HI. If you're not going to help, I don't see the point and you did basically waste your time. You are not needed.
-Brian
To actually help the op - The FC OPR is set at less than the FD. I would go back to the FD OPR seeing as you need to drop the pan to fix the leak. If you think that the pan is under pressure it wouldn't be from the oil system, it would be from the emmisions system. If at all possible the pan should be vented to atmosphere or under a slight vacuum.
NO
-Ted
Stay in HI. If you're not going to help, I don't see the point and you did basically waste your time. You are not needed.
-Brian
To actually help the op - The FC OPR is set at less than the FD. I would go back to the FD OPR seeing as you need to drop the pan to fix the leak. If you think that the pan is under pressure it wouldn't be from the oil system, it would be from the emmisions system. If at all possible the pan should be vented to atmosphere or under a slight vacuum.
09-10-08, 06:51 AM
#20
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Let's see...
You say you know you're running oil full of fuel...
Why don't you do an oil change if you knew this???
Then you claim the FC OPR raises oil pressure...which it doesn't.
Then you run an oil additive...which is a waste of time.
Then you say you wanted to run lower oil pressure cause of oil leaking from the oil pan...which oil pressure has nothing to do with "pressure" in the oil pan.
You're right.
It is a waste of time commenting on your thread...
-Ted
You say you know you're running oil full of fuel...
Why don't you do an oil change if you knew this???
Then you claim the FC OPR raises oil pressure...which it doesn't.
Then you run an oil additive...which is a waste of time.
Then you say you wanted to run lower oil pressure cause of oil leaking from the oil pan...which oil pressure has nothing to do with "pressure" in the oil pan.
You're right.
It is a waste of time commenting on your thread...
-Ted
I guess I should have updated more, or started a new thread.
I installed a R/B oil adaptor so I may put a guage in it But the oil pressure problem was the stock sensor. Im gettingg about 60-70 psi. I have changed the oil and had new oil cooler lines made and I installed them.
And for the record.... I never CLAIMED anything I think I said "I read somewhere" but I was mistaken.
I resealed the pan and used the Banzi oil pan brace I dont think its leaking but I do have a front cover oilseal leaking a little. I have a new one and will be replacing ( yes I know about the bearing inside the front cover)
The oil additive is subjective.
I think you would have liked it better if I had rigged up some angle iron to mount the engine then tried to run the FD ecu then you could have really flamed me
Stay tuned I plan on running a type of pre innercooler to which Im sure you will hate.
I do appreiciate your comments keep them coming
maybe I can help YOU
I know its not your age because I roughly the same. Maybe you need to get laid and it would improve your disposition
Johny
09-10-08, 01:55 PM
#21
Lives on the Forum
I gotta disagree with you when the girl wants to get pregnant.
Hell, no condoms either...
Like with the rest of your comments, you're still way off base...
Try again.
-Ted
09-10-08, 02:17 PM
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Im confused by your lack of dynos in VA, theirs tons of dynos around me, I keep tripping over the damned things. Too bad my car randomly blows hoses off and decides it doesnt want to start or I might get to one. Nice build though, Im sure you cant wait to get all the stupid little problems fixed.
09-10-08, 03:38 PM
#24
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1. plan a nice supper not to heavy, pasta is always good
2. Serve with a nice bottle of Wine.
3. Some light music...... lite Jazz durning dinner The after dinner Barry White.
4. Then when she nice and in the mood............. slowly pick up the phone and
CALL ME BECAUSE MY PECKER STILL WORKS.
hahahaha
seriously
If she doesn't get pregnant thats just GOD sparing us all from another TED
No offence
lets get this back on topic.
I got my PWR innercooler today Im going to have a water to air precooler hoe bout that
Johny
