Black97VR4

I got pulled over last night for my exhaust and got a ticket. Not a big deal by itself but I don't want to get ticketed for this all the time. I searched and noticed a thread mentioned something about a GReddy exemption certificate for exhausts. If they have these where could I get one? Their website? Or should I call them?

Any help would be appreciated.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I'd just call them up. They used to have something on their website, but I don't see it now. US site is greddy.com - they should have the number on there, BTW.

Dale

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

from the mods in your sig, you have the sp, isnt that the quieter greddy exhausts? if so, he prob pulled you over for it being aftermarket..also looking at your av, you leave in VA, didnt they pass a law on aftermarket exhausts?

rescueranger

iTrader: (15)

northern va is uber gay when it comes to aftermarket .. ive tried arguing it .. one cop even told me how to beat it .. basically argue that if its legal to be sold in the us then its legal to have .. anyways ive tried arguing it in court and the judge didnt even wanna hear it .. i coulda sworn it was cause i was asian and he just assumed im some ricer .. i know it has nothing to do with sound .. cause ive tried arguing that as well (even though thats most likely reason why cop pulled you over, yeah and harleys are so quiet .. dam pigs) .. do some research in va laws website .. you might find a loop hole .. anyways .. i say just pay the ticket and change your exhaust .. i know its a gay alternative .. but we live in va and cops here are dicks (you are what you eat)

`sl!mXP

if its legal to be sold doesnt always mean its legal to have :P Radar detectors are illegal here in PA but they are sold in major stores like best buy and circuit city.

As for the exhaust - ask them to do that decibel thingie. I read an article on how greddy makes their exhausts and each one is tested and modified until it is under the legal db limit, so the greddy is definetly legal its just a matter of proving it with something that they cant refute try as they may :P

r1dreamer

iTrader: (4)

yes it exists but you have to have a reciept number for the exhuast, i tried it and failed. had to goto court for the exhaust ticket, they told me that i would lose even if i had that sticker, so i just paid the $50 and went on with my day. you wont get pulled over all the time for it, it was just a freek thing. i thought the same but cops dont want to be bothered with stupid things like that, unless they have nothing better to do.

brandon

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

^^exactly

except if you live in the woods where NOTHING happens, cops will only bother you if they have nothingn to do..

when i got warned for my exhaust, no front plate etc etc, he was just pulling out of his spot when he saw me, i guess he just got on duty or something and needed something quick..but thank god he just gave me a warning..

and there are tons of times where i ride side by side with a cop on the road or pull up next to one or vice versa and they look but not care..some cops care and some dont..i guess you have to be lucky..

papsmagu

iTrader: (19)

don't know about your state but in florida you have to have a cop inspect your car once you've changed back to stock exhaust, sign your ticket and pay 50 bucks.

lucky for us we live in the US and there are many, many, many ways around everything!!!

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Black97VR4, I hate to break to to you, but I'm sure that you know by now that Virginia is the pits when it comes to motor vehicle violations. Unlike the majority of states which set a decibel level for you to satisfy, and thus keep your options open in regard to what exhaust you can purchase, that is NOT the case in Virginia. No where in the Code of Virginia have I ever come across a numbered decibel requirement. I understand they're currently trying to pass a bill to set the limit at 95db, but as the law reads NOW, an exhaust is illegal if it is not OEM, no matter HOW quiet it is. Read for yourself:

"§ 46.2-1049. Exhaust system in good working order. No person shall drive and no owner of a motor vehicle shall permit or allow the operation of any vehicle on a highway unless it is equipped with an exhaust system of a type installed as standard factory equipment, or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment, in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise. An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment exhaust system of private passenger motor vehicles or trucks of standard make.
The term "exhaust system," as used in this section, means all the parts of a motor vehicle through which the exhaust passes after leaving the engine block.

Chambered pipes are not an effective muffling device to prevent excessive or unusual noise."

And while we're at it, just for fun:

"§ 46.2-1047. Muffler cutout, etc., illegal. It shall be unlawful to sell or offer for sale any (i) muffler without interior baffle plates or other effective muffling device or (ii) gutted muffler, muffler cutout, or straight exhaust. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate on the highways in the Commonwealth a motor vehicle equipped with a gutted muffler, muffler cutout, or straight exhaust."

So in short, the reason why rescueranger and r1dreamer were screwed either way was because they don't have an OEM (that's read as MAZDA) muffler on there. No Greddy certificate will work in these cases. Those read GREDDY

Now if you REALLY wanna mess w/ them, buy the LARGEST, LOUDEST Mazdaspeed exhaust you can find, and that IS OEM, because Mazdaspeed products were offered on new FDs from the stealership. I sooooo wanna do that just to flaunt it in their face...

Are you sure about that? Was this changed recently? Because AFAIK, radar detectors are 100% legal in PA...I lived there for 3 yeas. In fact, here's a breakdown of the places and situations radar detectors are illegal for the entire US:

- Radar detectors are banned in Virginia
- Radar detectors and radar jammers are illegal in the District of Columbia
- Radar jammers are illegal in Oklahoma, but radar detectors are legal
- In New York, radar detectors are only regulated in commercial vehicles over 18,000lbs.
- In Illinois, radar detectors are only regulated in commercial vehicles

So, in short, there are only two "states" (since DC is not a state) that outlaw radar detectors in all vehicles: VA and DC.

Good luck. Judges in Fairfax County don't rule by law, they rule by desire. That's a FACT when it comes to the lower courts. I can't count how many times I've presented cases in which there was no way BUT to rule in my favor, but because of my age and the car I drive, the judge ruled against me. I appeal, go to the Circuit Court (where the judges are better, but usually strict), use the EXACT SAME DEFENSE, and they find me innocent. In fact, I've heard it from the mouth of the prosecutor that he can't stand the Fairfax County General District Court judges, because they're horrible.

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

If it has to be OEM how does Midas and Mineke do business in Va.? Or don't they? Anything canb be fought for enough $$ You can set the law straight by fighting it and proving that it is not harmfull or annoying( more so than Harleys, and i believe "they" are sold in Va. granted with no exhaust from the oem)

But the amount it will cost is rediculous. Bad judges need to be set straight within the states supreme court via appeals. ( Or circuit as FD Newbie has done)But that gets you back to the whole $$ issue. Pay the fine and hope for the best is my advice if it is not a points ticket.

Crazy judges need to be hung. Of topic but just as exteme, Conneticut is trying to BAN dirt bikes and all ATV's all together. ( as read from cycle news)

WantaV8Swap

"No person shall drive and no owner of a motor vehicle shall permit or allow the operation of any vehicle on a highway unless it is equipped with an exhaust system of a type installed as standard factory equipment, or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment"
open headers anyone? it doesnt say you need the whole exhaust system
but this kinda kills it
"and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise. An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment"
basically the db level is: whatever it was stock
maybe you should get an elecric cutout and shut it whenever you see a cop. yeah theyre illegal too but if its shut when the cops around its harder to catch since he would have no reason to think its there.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Oh they do, but their cans are tiny, no shiny tips, 3/4" piping stuff like that. Stuff like that looks OEM to the cops. You gotta understand so much stuff is discretionary in this state. So it's really all about target enforcement of the aftermarket/import crowd.

Well that's what pisses me off, but it's perfectly legal according to the current laws because it's OEM. Oh and there's no way in hell my exhaust (or the exhausts of the vast majority of FD owners) can be found not harmful/annoying. The RX7Club owners are prob responsible for a large percentage of the ozone damage, not to mention that where there's an RX7, there's an angry neighbor

I don't get back at them at all. I just get off the hook myself. I WISH it made them look bad or had a negative impact on them. Heck, I wish we would file suit against the JUDGES lol. Now THAT would be something to watch.

Prob w/ going to Circuit Court is you face a $142 court fee (IIRC, vs the General District Court fee of $52), so if you're fighting a $90 ticket and lose, you're ROYALLY screwed. (The fines may be off because they're always increasing them...) And you wonder why the courthouse is undergoing a $94.5 million expansion

Too drastic. They should get to spend some time in the slammer, seeing how often they throw people in VA in jail for driving 20 miles over the speed limit...

I drop it into neutral whenever I'm around cops, which sometimes has proved to be a BAD idea, since I have the occassional PFC bouncing idle LOL. Sounds like I'm "instigating racing..." And when I get pulled over, the FIRST thing I do is drop the windows (can't see the tints) and kill the engine (he won't smell the ozone layer deteriorating LOL)

Kento

And so many people get all riled about how bad "Kalifornia" is...

mad_7tist

if it has a C.A.R.B Eo# then it is legal. most parts that are will come with the sticker that you are to place under the hood for inspection id. some states do have noise ordinances they can write tickets for stereo volume also.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Cali IS bad...but Fairfax County is competing The rest of the country really just doesn't give too much lol. Some of 'em don't even have exhaust requirements at ALL...

Toadman

No kidding. Like John McClane in Die Hard says, "welcome to the party pal!", and cars now mandatory 50-state emissions-legal off the showroom floor. A CARB exemption/sticker is requested by the manufacturer as a waiver presented to the Socialist Republik of Kalifornia after extensive $$$ testing by the California Air Resources Board(CARB).

jayk

Not to split hairs, but if DC isn't a state, then there is only one state in which radar detectors are illegal...

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

That's why I put the word in quotations (there are only two "states")

BlueRex

It is when compared to a majority of the rest of the country. But I'd rather breathe clean air then make an extra 5 hp. Not to mention I love watching cops pull over ricers

NewbernD

iTrader: (1)

Am I missing something?

Actually, it doesn't state that it has to be OEM. It says that is has to be of the same TYPE of muffler as used by OEM. This means that the muffling must be done by the same principles as OEM uses (backpressure, large chamber for expansion, maze of chambers to break up exhaust pulses, all of the performance robbing characteristics that we love) It can NOT be performed by chambered pipes (fart cans/GT style exhausts) and it can not be a straight through exhaust (Racing Beat systems are if you didn't know. )

It does state that you can use a non-OEM exhaust, so far as it's "comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment." This means no "universal" mufflers. This means that Midas can sell mufflers if they baffle noise the same way as stock and what they sell was designed to fit that car.

Not saying that the cops aren't being dicks about it.. I don't know how they'd tell that a Racing Beat dual tip wasn't stock, particularly with all of the stainless tips on cars these days.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I actually just answered that on the other thread. Here's my post: https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=22

As for how they tell an RB isn't stock, I have no idea. I think they're really just profiling sports cars, and "guess" lol

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

FDNewbie: I read your post, and I think the only way you meet addres/attack the law's three points, (1) comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment; 2) in good working order, and 3) in constant operation is as follows:

1) show up in court in a suit and tie; well shaven/neat physical appearance; etc;
2) bring evidence (D&B reports; financial data; market penetration data; etc.) showing that the manufacture of your exhaust isn't a fly-by-night operation;
3) bring evidence showing that your exhaust was designed specificially for your vehicle and is not a "universal" muffler;
4) bring evidence (e.g., picture of your exhaust, date of purchase/installation) that your exhaust is in good working order;
5) bring evidence (e.g., picture of exhaust installed with bolts or welds) to show that your exhaust is in constant operation;
6) bring evidence (e.g., a notorized or signed letter from your exhaust shop that states validates as much of tiems 2-5). This is important because you can show "expert testimony" versus the officer's opinion.

While the above won't guarantee you being judged innocent, you can at least say you have taken all reasonable steps necessary a prudent person would do to follow the letter of the law. As such, your fine may be reduced or eliminated.

Most likely, the Counties and State view this as revenue, and are betting your won't "clog" the courts, and will just pay the fine.

You may be able to ask for public-defender as well, and you could appeal.

Good luck,
:-) neil

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Neil,

Thanks for the pointers. A couple of things:

- I'm running a MP, so I'd kinda have to get that taken off, put in a cat, and use a silencer on the exhaust to get it quiet enough)

- What's a D&B report? #2 as a whole, I'm not sure where I couuld find that info.

The rest of the stuff sounds good, and I REALLY like the idea of a notorized or signed letter from the shop validating items 2-5. I know notarized and/or signed papers are good in court, but I'm afraid that they may say since the expert witness is not here to be cross-examined by the prosecutor, they can't use that in court. But ya know what? There's one sure way to find out. And if the guy from the shop is cool, I can have him come in to court with me too

Thanks!
~Ramy

EDIT: Oh and I can't ask for counsel unless I'm gonna pay for him. Legal counsel is only provided if you can't afford one. Otherwise, it's on you, and you're looking at $500 for the CHEAPEST lawyer. Not worth it, esp. since equipped w/ the vehicle codes, 9 times outta 10, I can do just as good a job as he can

NewbernD

iTrader: (1)

Well, since you're running a midpipe I think you lose all rights to complain about VA cops and their exhaust profiling.. I don't care what the exhaust is, it's going to be louder than any reasonable decibel level anyone could apply to a car. I'm not saying they shouldn't equally enforce the law with domestic cars & bikes, just that you lose all grounds of having a legitimate complaint when you pull your cats out.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

A "D&B" report is a "Dunn and Bradstreet" report which may have the company financials etc.

You could also call/contact Greddy in California, talk to either their investment or marketing departments and ask for an informational packet on the company showing their revenue/finanacial data, dealers (great if it showed VA), and history.
You could also run the "Company Profile" for Greddy-Trust through a translator and make a printout:

http://www.trust-power.com/10company/outline.html
GReddy Performance Products, Inc.
9 VANDERBILT IRVINE, CA92718 U.S.A.　TEL (949)588-8300

SEMA may also have this info on Greddy/Trust.

If they muffler shop owner can show, make sure he is also well-dressed and you go over what questions not only you will ask him, but what the prosecutor may ask him.

Your muffler man may say that the Greddy muffler is better than OEM/factory, a more accurate statement would be the Greddy muffler is designed to factory specifications and specifically for your RX7.

By stating "better than factory", the questions that may follow could be: how is it better? and the muffler man might say it flows better than stock, to which the prosecutor may say that it in order flow better then the sound has to flow quicker too (be sure to object to this- because it is NOT true). A better answer might be, it is made of better materials (stainless-steel, titanium, etc.), does the same function as factory/OEM/stock, and is cheaper. Why wouldn't he want to install it?

In short, be careful as to what you want to reveal.

:-) neil

PS: I am NOT a laywer or pretend to be one. Do NOT take this as legal or expert advice.