Does 500 rwhp make an FD more enjoyable to drive? (13b only)
So are you saying that the Porsche driver could have clocked the same times if he drove something else? Lets say a toyota camry? Obviously not that would be silly, but we should point out that those lap times are a combination of the driver and the CAR
So is Bob a professional driver? Does he drive for mazda? He isn’t and he doesn’t, therefore the comparison is quite unfair.
The problem lies that we don’t have professional drivers testing modded rx-7s at the ring for a direct comparison. But we can make an indirect comparison from other cars that have been driven at the ring but also have gone against modded FDs. So the GT3 did a 7:40 well the Nissan GTR just did a 7:27.
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2010-pors...7m-40-seconds/
So lets concentrate on the GTR for a second: in this vid Re-amemiya FD went against a GTR and won:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcq1T0ZBD1w
Yeah I know it’s a rather weak comparison but it does provide an interesting result. It’s that a well set up modded FD can certainly keep up.
Oh I disagree completely as it’s actually the best comparison that can be made. In reality, who cares if a professional driver can clock certain times as those times are beyond the reach of most hobbyist anyway. When one is at the track it’s the direct comparison to people with similar skill levels what counts. If it didn’t count then lap times would not be given.
And from all the data that is available to us meaning lap times, videos, peoples own account there is one sure conclusion that can be made. That a well setup FD is a formidable opponent to the GT3.
The problem lies that we don’t have professional drivers testing modded rx-7s at the ring for a direct comparison. But we can make an indirect comparison from other cars that have been driven at the ring but also have gone against modded FDs. So the GT3 did a 7:40 well the Nissan GTR just did a 7:27.
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2010-pors...7m-40-seconds/
So lets concentrate on the GTR for a second: in this vid Re-amemiya FD went against a GTR and won:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcq1T0ZBD1w
Yeah I know it’s a rather weak comparison but it does provide an interesting result. It’s that a well set up modded FD can certainly keep up.
And from all the data that is available to us meaning lap times, videos, peoples own account there is one sure conclusion that can be made. That a well setup FD is a formidable opponent to the GT3.
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
From: NC
The GT3 has a mechanical solidness that the RX7 lacks and it just feels like a car that can run hard for hours without any issues. One note about the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires that come on the GT3, they are a special Porsche fitment (N0 or N1 spec) and supposedly the compound is actually closer to their Pilot Sport 2 as opposed to the balance of the MPSC line. Not a bad compromise track tire but I wouldn't rate them up with the true DOT R tires from Hoosier or Kumho for example.
I'd say that given equal power the RX7 would be faster then a GT3 (assuming similar level types of tires, with the RX7 having upgraded suspension, brakes, etc.). They are both great cars that have few peers, I personally can't think of any other performance cars that I would be interested in owning, just enjoy the RX7 and be comfortable in knowing that it is a performance bargain! Take your pick....
Keith
I'd say that given equal power the RX7 would be faster then a GT3 (assuming similar level types of tires, with the RX7 having upgraded suspension, brakes, etc.). They are both great cars that have few peers, I personally can't think of any other performance cars that I would be interested in owning, just enjoy the RX7 and be comfortable in knowing that it is a performance bargain! Take your pick....
Keith
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
It's a '07 and it was, gulp, just over $90K.... I tend to keep cars for quite a few years and I really liked the color (it's relatively hard to find) so I rationalized this as a reasonable thing to do (temporary insanity actually).
The prices for them are continuing to fall and you can get them in the $70s depending upon mileage and options. The bad news is that consumables (tires, brake pads) and parts (anything that is associated with Porsche) can be rather pricey.
Keith
The prices for them are continuing to fall and you can get them in the $70s depending upon mileage and options. The bad news is that consumables (tires, brake pads) and parts (anything that is associated with Porsche) can be rather pricey.
Keith
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
From: NC
Yes, that's the primary drawback to the P-cars imo: absurd mark-up on parts (and, well, the cars themselves). The FD is an absolute performance bargain by comparison.
Perhaps you should have kept both?
Fritz probably gave you his typical low-ball price for your '94
Perhaps you should have kept both?
Fritz probably gave you his typical low-ball price for your '94
So are you saying that the Porsche driver could have clocked the same times if he drove something else? Lets say a toyota camry? Obviously not that would be silly, but we should point out that those lap times are a combination of the driver and the CAR
So is Bob a professional driver? Does he drive for mazda? He isn’t and he doesn’t, therefore the comparison is quite unfair.
The problem lies that we don’t have professional drivers testing modded rx-7s at the ring for a direct comparison. But we can make an indirect comparison from other cars that have been driven at the ring but also have gone against modded FDs. So the GT3 did a 7:40 well the Nissan GTR just did a 7:27.
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2010-pors...7m-40-seconds/
So lets concentrate on the GTR for a second: in this vid Re-amemiya FD went against a GTR and won:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcq1T0ZBD1w
Yeah I know it’s a rather weak comparison but it does provide an interesting result. It’s that a well set up modded FD can certainly keep up.
Oh I disagree completely as it’s actually the best comparison that can be made. In reality, who cares if a professional driver can clock certain times as those times are beyond the reach of most hobbyist anyway. When one is at the track it’s the direct comparison to people with similar skill levels what counts. If it didn’t count then lap times would not be given.
And from all the data that is available to us meaning lap times, videos, peoples own account there is one sure conclusion that can be made. That a well setup FD is a formidable opponent to the GT3.
So is Bob a professional driver? Does he drive for mazda? He isn’t and he doesn’t, therefore the comparison is quite unfair.
The problem lies that we don’t have professional drivers testing modded rx-7s at the ring for a direct comparison. But we can make an indirect comparison from other cars that have been driven at the ring but also have gone against modded FDs. So the GT3 did a 7:40 well the Nissan GTR just did a 7:27.
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2010-pors...7m-40-seconds/
So lets concentrate on the GTR for a second: in this vid Re-amemiya FD went against a GTR and won:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcq1T0ZBD1w
Yeah I know it’s a rather weak comparison but it does provide an interesting result. It’s that a well set up modded FD can certainly keep up.
Oh I disagree completely as it’s actually the best comparison that can be made. In reality, who cares if a professional driver can clock certain times as those times are beyond the reach of most hobbyist anyway. When one is at the track it’s the direct comparison to people with similar skill levels what counts. If it didn’t count then lap times would not be given.
And from all the data that is available to us meaning lap times, videos, peoples own account there is one sure conclusion that can be made. That a well setup FD is a formidable opponent to the GT3.
However, I'll give the GT-R is better then my FD at corner 5b @ Mosport. My diff does something weird there and I think my rear right tire is lifting due to the off-camber nature and re-paved sections of that corner and possibly the fact that my setup is so stiff. This is the only corner I need to work on at Mosport as I still haven't figured out how to go around that corner at the limit yet. The rest of the corners is just get more ***** to brake deeper (mainly corner 8). Next year, I'm going to give my car some more camber (with the aid of a tire pyrometer) as its still stock + 1 degree and possibly lower it a bit if my wider fenders allow for more tire clearance and attempt for 1.2x lap time. I'll have to tell people no passengers for a day if I'm gonna make this work lol.
thewird
To hell with all this nonsense. The Rx7 can never loose. LOL!
OK! Ok! Back to reality. Now I know comparing a 18yr old designed 3rd gen Rx7 to a modern day track weapon like a GT3 isn't fair, however a substantially modified Rx7 can and will still give a GT3 a run for it's money for fare less of it. Below is an extreme street built example. I know someone you still remember the Petter Farrell built 20b Fd in 2001 Super tuner challenge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zULiodQ6lD0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMYu5guc4WU
I still have the magazine article of this test. Here's the internet version for those that do not:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
In this test , they used a pricing format to kind of give an example of how much the vehicle would cost if it was purchased new and fully modded to the performance levels seen in the test.
The 20b powered Fd came in at $83,588. That's the cars new car price, engine swap, full suspension, wheels tires everything. Now I know that sounds like a lot but you are getting a lot for your money. Consider this, the Lingenfelter twin turbo Vette came in at $116,227. $43,995 of that is on the engine mods alone???? Are you serious????? The Fd's base price was $36,588 and had $47,000 in TOTAL mods. $35,000 was on the engine package...a complete total engine swap moved 5 1/2" backwards, Ecu, Turbo, IC, custom drive shaft & subframe, racing clutch, exhaust. The final $12,000 went on suspension, wheels & tires, body parts, brakes. Meanwhile the Lingenfelter wanted $43,995 just to rebuild the stock block of the engine that already came with the car, two turbos, IC, and exhaust?????? WTF???? Someone help me out here! Why does it cost that much just to modify the engine that's already in the car while adding turbos? At least with the 20b swap your paying for a completely different drivetrain and the custom fabrication to go with it.
Now I know the Fd wasn't the most reliable vehicle in this test (all the failures were minor and could have easily been prevented) but, no one can argue the performance you get from a well build Fd is nothing short of something phenomenal for the money.
Oh yea, the Fd absolutely murdered that Vette on the road course section of this test. It was 7 seconds faster. It was also running the STOCK transmission, axle and shafts. LOL!
OK! Ok! Back to reality. Now I know comparing a 18yr old designed 3rd gen Rx7 to a modern day track weapon like a GT3 isn't fair, however a substantially modified Rx7 can and will still give a GT3 a run for it's money for fare less of it. Below is an extreme street built example. I know someone you still remember the Petter Farrell built 20b Fd in 2001 Super tuner challenge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zULiodQ6lD0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMYu5guc4WU
I still have the magazine article of this test. Here's the internet version for those that do not:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
In this test , they used a pricing format to kind of give an example of how much the vehicle would cost if it was purchased new and fully modded to the performance levels seen in the test.
The 20b powered Fd came in at $83,588. That's the cars new car price, engine swap, full suspension, wheels tires everything. Now I know that sounds like a lot but you are getting a lot for your money. Consider this, the Lingenfelter twin turbo Vette came in at $116,227. $43,995 of that is on the engine mods alone???? Are you serious????? The Fd's base price was $36,588 and had $47,000 in TOTAL mods. $35,000 was on the engine package...a complete total engine swap moved 5 1/2" backwards, Ecu, Turbo, IC, custom drive shaft & subframe, racing clutch, exhaust. The final $12,000 went on suspension, wheels & tires, body parts, brakes. Meanwhile the Lingenfelter wanted $43,995 just to rebuild the stock block of the engine that already came with the car, two turbos, IC, and exhaust?????? WTF???? Someone help me out here! Why does it cost that much just to modify the engine that's already in the car while adding turbos? At least with the 20b swap your paying for a completely different drivetrain and the custom fabrication to go with it.
Now I know the Fd wasn't the most reliable vehicle in this test (all the failures were minor and could have easily been prevented) but, no one can argue the performance you get from a well build Fd is nothing short of something phenomenal for the money.
Oh yea, the Fd absolutely murdered that Vette on the road course section of this test. It was 7 seconds faster. It was also running the STOCK transmission, axle and shafts. LOL!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Hi Keith,
Red is still the king of the garage and will remain so for quite a while. I'm either going to buy a full out race FD or continue to TT my current car in the near term.
I'm glad you never tracked old Red or you probably wouldn't of sold it. I've owned over 120 FDs and this is a very VERY special car. For all those who commented about the perfect all around FD that's what this car is. It includes lots high quality bolts on with a good Steve Kahn tune making about 300 rwhp AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, SEQUENTIAL TWINS. You push the go peddle and it goes with no hesitation in any gear any time. Runs as well as Peter Hahns car with less power but a little more initial giddyup.
Keith I love your comment regarding the FD and GT3 match up as that's exactly how I feel. Here it is again "I'd say that given equal power the RX7 would be faster then a GT3 (assuming similar level types of tires, with the RX7 having upgraded suspension, brakes, etc.). They are both great cars that have few peers, I personally can't think of any other performance cars that I would be interested in owning, just enjoy the RX7 and be comfortable in knowing that it is a performance bargain! Take your pick...."
Red is still the king of the garage and will remain so for quite a while. I'm either going to buy a full out race FD or continue to TT my current car in the near term.
I'm glad you never tracked old Red or you probably wouldn't of sold it. I've owned over 120 FDs and this is a very VERY special car. For all those who commented about the perfect all around FD that's what this car is. It includes lots high quality bolts on with a good Steve Kahn tune making about 300 rwhp AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, SEQUENTIAL TWINS. You push the go peddle and it goes with no hesitation in any gear any time. Runs as well as Peter Hahns car with less power but a little more initial giddyup.
Keith I love your comment regarding the FD and GT3 match up as that's exactly how I feel. Here it is again "I'd say that given equal power the RX7 would be faster then a GT3 (assuming similar level types of tires, with the RX7 having upgraded suspension, brakes, etc.). They are both great cars that have few peers, I personally can't think of any other performance cars that I would be interested in owning, just enjoy the RX7 and be comfortable in knowing that it is a performance bargain! Take your pick...."
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 255
Likes: 1
From: England
It's surely self evident that an equal power FD would be faster than a GT3; it doesn't have the engine in the wrong place 
. All the decades of Porsche fiddling and all the electronic aids will never overcome that massive pendulum wagging around outside the wheelbase 
Mind you, a 911 did just win the British GT championship against F430s, Ascaris, Vipers, Ford GTs et al. Hmmmm, maybe it was driver skill hahaha
. All the decades of Porsche fiddling and all the electronic aids will never overcome that massive pendulum wagging around outside the wheelbase Mind you, a 911 did just win the British GT championship against F430s, Ascaris, Vipers, Ford GTs et al. Hmmmm, maybe it was driver skill hahaha
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
I actually have a good comparison against the GT-R. Since they're release, there is always 1-2+ GT-R's at Mosport every time I go and a occasionally on the other local tracks as well. I always wonder why I could pass them so easily and pull away from them coming out of corners (especially at Mosport). I always assumed it was because of the driver and didn't really care for it much. However, I got my parents to buy the new GT-R (they wanted an automatic sports car) a few months after its release. A year after owning it, I finally convinced them to let me take it to Mosport. After a few laps of learning the car and testing its limits, I realized why I could pass them so easily. While the GT-R is definitely an amazing car with phenomenal grip and stability around corners, it just doesn't seem to have the same pull as my FD does coming out of corners (probably the weight difference). While in the FD I feel the car pulling out of an apex and being pushed back into my seat to the point where I have to brace myself against the door and hang onto the steering wheel, in the GT-R I feel a pull but its not of the same caliber, almost like like a cruise, not sure how to explain it. The one difference I noticed was when I come out of the FD I'm sweating and out of breath usually, while when I would come out of the GT-R, I barely break a sweat. So while my FD is definitely faster, the GT-R is much easier to drive (even with everything set in Race mode).
However, I'll give the GT-R is better then my FD at corner 5b @ Mosport. My diff does something weird there and I think my rear right tire is lifting due to the off-camber nature and re-paved sections of that corner and possibly the fact that my setup is so stiff. This is the only corner I need to work on at Mosport as I still haven't figured out how to go around that corner at the limit yet. The rest of the corners is just get more ***** to brake deeper (mainly corner 8). Next year, I'm going to give my car some more camber (with the aid of a tire pyrometer) as its still stock + 1 degree and possibly lower it a bit if my wider fenders allow for more tire clearance and attempt for 1.2x lap time. I'll have to tell people no passengers for a day if I'm gonna make this work lol.
thewird
However, I'll give the GT-R is better then my FD at corner 5b @ Mosport. My diff does something weird there and I think my rear right tire is lifting due to the off-camber nature and re-paved sections of that corner and possibly the fact that my setup is so stiff. This is the only corner I need to work on at Mosport as I still haven't figured out how to go around that corner at the limit yet. The rest of the corners is just get more ***** to brake deeper (mainly corner 8). Next year, I'm going to give my car some more camber (with the aid of a tire pyrometer) as its still stock + 1 degree and possibly lower it a bit if my wider fenders allow for more tire clearance and attempt for 1.2x lap time. I'll have to tell people no passengers for a day if I'm gonna make this work lol.
thewird
Sorry but I completely disagree with all of the above. Any 4 wheel drive car EVO, STI and especially a GTR will leap out of a corner faster than most anything made. The FD is great at braking late and getting on the apex 1st but once the power is applied the 4 wheel drive cars will eat it up along with the higher torque cars like corvettes, GT3s etc....
A GTR with an avg track rat (instructor level driver with lots of exp) with basic bolt ons will run a 2 flat at VIR. Look at that reference I posted earlier regarding production cars and there performance at VIRs most technical track and you'll see the GTR is probably top 5.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
It's surely self evident that an equal power FD would be faster than a GT3; it doesn't have the engine in the wrong place . All the decades of Porsche fiddling and all the electronic aids will never overcome that massive pendulum wagging around outside the wheelbase
Mind you, a 911 did just win the British GT championship against F430s, Ascaris, Vipers, Ford GTs et al. Hmmmm, maybe it was driver skill hahaha
. All the decades of Porsche fiddling and all the electronic aids will never overcome that massive pendulum wagging around outside the wheelbase Mind you, a 911 did just win the British GT championship against F430s, Ascaris, Vipers, Ford GTs et al. Hmmmm, maybe it was driver skill hahaha
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
From: NC
Yes, quite a few people (I would say the majority now) claim the rear mid engine layout has several advantages in racing, and that any front engine layout is "old school" and inferior. That's said, the FD (with a 13b) positions the engine about as far rearward as you can get with a front engine set-up. I also like the way the vette is balanced with the rear mounted trans, it just needs to be smaller.
Thread Starter
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
From: NC
Hmmmmm...sounds like a biased opinion to me. Which one would win the track? The PF car broke left and right in that shootout. Did you see the tiny IC in that thing? PF always seemed arrogant to me, Cam is a racer's racer. Plus that PF's "purple computer" was the biggest pos ever.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,837
Likes: 3,234
From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Yes, quite a few people (I would say the majority now) claim the rear mid engine layout has several advantages in racing, and that any front engine layout is "old school" and inferior. That's said, the FD (with a 13b) positions the engine about as far rearward as you can get with a front engine set-up. I also like the way the vette is balanced with the rear mounted trans, it just needs to be smaller.
FC, the rear suspension, and toe control hub. it might be out of fashion, but look at an 80's BMW, mazda is way way way further advanced.
the miata is the first computer designed chassis.
the 787B, its loosely based on a store bought chassis, but then the rest of the car is done by the production guys, which i think is almost unique.
the FD.
the 99-2003 protege. mazda took us to a local parking lot and had us autox the protege vs the civic and corolla, and there is no comparison, the mazda is way way better
the Rx8/NC miata. yes its heavy, but the suspension is AMAZING. it rides great, handles great, and it has no bad habits. an NC miata actually won the 25 hours of thunderhill outright in 08, the miata cup cars are FAST.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
Nice to know my old rig is in good hands! I'm really happy to hear your comments about the throttle response on the car. When I decided to move from SS to SM2 class for autocross I worked with a local Mazda shop and he encouraged me to focus on useable power, guess it worked out well. If I could figure out a way to have kept it without invoking my wifes wrath it would still be back here... She's very understanding and supporting about my automotive indulgences but that would have been difficult to pull off!
One point that was made regarding the size comparison of the RX7 and the GT3, and is important to consider with all the new machinery out there is the general growth in the size of the cars. More power requires additional cooling, heavier transmission components, heavier suspension components, larger brakes, etc., etc. Then add all of the various electronic controls and you have to question whether it is adding or subtracting to the fun of driving.
When I first saw a Nissan GTR in person I simply couldn't believe the size of the thing. Granted it is unbelievably fast but they are just enormous and that just killed it for me. The GT3 is a pretty large car too, good thing since I fit into better as I get older.
The RX7 is just a very pure driving experiance, something that folks will really miss 10 or 20 years from now..
Keith
One point that was made regarding the size comparison of the RX7 and the GT3, and is important to consider with all the new machinery out there is the general growth in the size of the cars. More power requires additional cooling, heavier transmission components, heavier suspension components, larger brakes, etc., etc. Then add all of the various electronic controls and you have to question whether it is adding or subtracting to the fun of driving.
When I first saw a Nissan GTR in person I simply couldn't believe the size of the thing. Granted it is unbelievably fast but they are just enormous and that just killed it for me. The GT3 is a pretty large car too, good thing since I fit into better as I get older.
The RX7 is just a very pure driving experiance, something that folks will really miss 10 or 20 years from now..
Keith
So with your guys' track experience would it be better to go to something like a gt3, viper, or zo6 from an rx7, or a hopped up lotus with the same or better power to weight as the bigger cars?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Karm... The GTR is M3 or Cadillac CTSV sized and the interior is huge. The FD of course is more like the inside of a Lotus Elite. The interior is designed to cocoon the driver and is very similar to any number of small sports racing hardtops or coupes from 60's. These small enclosed sports cars are a thing of the past. The small Lotus coupes are the last of the breed of which the FD is the penultimate.
We have the same debates in the BMW forums regarding how big, heavy, computerized, and isolating most new sports-oriented cars are. I compare my old E30 M3 with the new M3 and, as you probably know, the original, stock M3 beats the E36 M3, and often the E46 M3, though the raw power of the new V8 M3's finally get them around a course faster. More importantly, my old car is waaaay more fun to drive either around a course or on the back roads.
As we know, when the FD was introduced, virtually all the enthusiast media talked about what a raw light little sports car it was. They talked about how small it was inside and out and how harsh even the stock suspension was and that the R1 was bone-and-teeth-jarring. Whether we agree with that assessment or not, compared to other cars then or now, that's what the FD was and is, which is in large measure why some people love it so much.
Today's newer sports-oriented cars may be a tad faster and are certainly way more comfortable and can be mechanically reliable. However, as the cars begin to depend more on electro-hydraulic and pure computer aids with suspension, engine, transmission, and steering, it not only further -- to the point of virtual elimination -- reduces driver involvement and feel, it introduces the significant probability of electronic failure. (My daughter's new pickup has a computer that shuts off for no reason on the highway leaving her with no power steering or brakes and the dealership couldn't fix it. Need I go on?)
The GT3 is similar to the FD and that's why we talk about it so much and that's why some FD owners have GT3's and some go from one to the other and some back again. Most Porsche's have lost the real old Porsche characteristics that made the cars so loved. A lot of that originally had to do with the sound and feel and performance of their naturally aspirated engines. As they brought out turbos and 4 wheel drive and PASM and tamed the rear with 5 or 6 or 7 link suspension and huge tires, they lost a lot of what made Porsche's so great. The 996 GT3's brought back the best of the old Porsche's within the current platform's possibilities.
Gordon
We have the same debates in the BMW forums regarding how big, heavy, computerized, and isolating most new sports-oriented cars are. I compare my old E30 M3 with the new M3 and, as you probably know, the original, stock M3 beats the E36 M3, and often the E46 M3, though the raw power of the new V8 M3's finally get them around a course faster. More importantly, my old car is waaaay more fun to drive either around a course or on the back roads.
As we know, when the FD was introduced, virtually all the enthusiast media talked about what a raw light little sports car it was. They talked about how small it was inside and out and how harsh even the stock suspension was and that the R1 was bone-and-teeth-jarring. Whether we agree with that assessment or not, compared to other cars then or now, that's what the FD was and is, which is in large measure why some people love it so much.
Today's newer sports-oriented cars may be a tad faster and are certainly way more comfortable and can be mechanically reliable. However, as the cars begin to depend more on electro-hydraulic and pure computer aids with suspension, engine, transmission, and steering, it not only further -- to the point of virtual elimination -- reduces driver involvement and feel, it introduces the significant probability of electronic failure. (My daughter's new pickup has a computer that shuts off for no reason on the highway leaving her with no power steering or brakes and the dealership couldn't fix it. Need I go on?)
The GT3 is similar to the FD and that's why we talk about it so much and that's why some FD owners have GT3's and some go from one to the other and some back again. Most Porsche's have lost the real old Porsche characteristics that made the cars so loved. A lot of that originally had to do with the sound and feel and performance of their naturally aspirated engines. As they brought out turbos and 4 wheel drive and PASM and tamed the rear with 5 or 6 or 7 link suspension and huge tires, they lost a lot of what made Porsche's so great. The 996 GT3's brought back the best of the old Porsche's within the current platform's possibilities.
Gordon
AWESOME stuff
If you are just looking for some fun at the track, nothing too serious, I would say an Elise. The 2005's don't have the throttle by wire junk and can be found for low 20's. You can easily SC them if you want a little extra grunt, but they aren't too bad stock:
https://www.rx7club.com/rx-7-audio-visual-lounge-143/pro-driver-elise-track-494171/
I still prefer smaller lighter weight sports cars to the bigger all power type sports cars so I would opt for a Lotus or a Porsche before looking into a Z06 or a Viper. The Z06 feels big, but it's not really all that big. It sticks on the track, but it just felt large to me. The main issue with the Lotus cars is that you won't have the straight line speed of something like a Z06 even with a SC. However, it's fun to **** them off by riding their bumpers in the turns.
I was trying to start a new discussion point, but that may be too much of personal preference to definitively say one vs the other. I know for a track weapon my next car would be smaller than the rx7. There are just so many advantages to being smaller and lighter.
I've been on the track with lots of GTRs as well and when in the right hands it will kick most any FDs ***.
Sorry but I completely disagree with all of the above. Any 4 wheel drive car EVO, STI and especially a GTR will leap out of a corner faster than most anything made. The FD is great at braking late and getting on the apex 1st but once the power is applied the 4 wheel drive cars will eat it up along with the higher torque cars like corvettes, GT3s etc....
A GTR with an avg track rat (instructor level driver with lots of exp) with basic bolt ons will run a 2 flat at VIR. Look at that reference I posted earlier regarding production cars and there performance at VIRs most technical track and you'll see the GTR is probably top 5.
Sorry but I completely disagree with all of the above. Any 4 wheel drive car EVO, STI and especially a GTR will leap out of a corner faster than most anything made. The FD is great at braking late and getting on the apex 1st but once the power is applied the 4 wheel drive cars will eat it up along with the higher torque cars like corvettes, GT3s etc....
A GTR with an avg track rat (instructor level driver with lots of exp) with basic bolt ons will run a 2 flat at VIR. Look at that reference I posted earlier regarding production cars and there performance at VIRs most technical track and you'll see the GTR is probably top 5.
I wonder what the nearest big track is to me in the states. I've wanted to go to a "foreign"/far away track for a while now and try something new hehe. Any suggestions?
thewird