Boost controller Help?
Boost controller Help?
03-10-04, 10:58 AM
#2
What was your boost before installing the controller?
If you installed both controllers at the same time, they can be just about impossible to adjust. I suggest that you remove the pre-spool controller. Put the stock hose (with the pills) back in place.
Open the remaining boost controller valve all the way, and check your boost. If it is still at 15, then you need to allow more air to flow thru the valve. To do this, remove the valve from the hoses. Take a drill, and drill out the holes in the valve to a slightly larger size. Be sure to do both sides. Make sure that ALL of the metal is removed from the valve before reinstalling it. Check your boost again. You may have to do this more than once to get enough air to flow thru the valve.
Do not reinstall the prespool controller.
If you installed both controllers at the same time, they can be just about impossible to adjust. I suggest that you remove the pre-spool controller. Put the stock hose (with the pills) back in place.
Open the remaining boost controller valve all the way, and check your boost. If it is still at 15, then you need to allow more air to flow thru the valve. To do this, remove the valve from the hoses. Take a drill, and drill out the holes in the valve to a slightly larger size. Be sure to do both sides. Make sure that ALL of the metal is removed from the valve before reinstalling it. Check your boost again. You may have to do this more than once to get enough air to flow thru the valve.
Do not reinstall the prespool controller.
03-10-04, 12:10 PM
#4
The hose that you removed to put in the pre-spool controller probably had a couple of air restricting devices in it. They are referred to as pills.
I hope you didn't throw it away. If you did, buy a new one from Mazda.
It sounds like the "boost controller" portion is now limiting to 15 psi. That's some progress. Follow my instructions, and let us know what happens.
I hope you didn't throw it away. If you did, buy a new one from Mazda.
It sounds like the "boost controller" portion is now limiting to 15 psi. That's some progress. Follow my instructions, and let us know what happens.
03-10-04, 12:27 PM
#5
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For a manual controller like these valves for the WG or PC here is how you hook it up.
Direct hose from turbo 1 outlet nipple to input side of boost control valve. Use no pills/jets in the hose unless it is a later RX-7 with it built into the nipple.
Output side of boost control valve; hose to inlet side of the WG actuator. Now you have two options for your bleedoff jet to the atmosphere
1) between the valve and actuator which means you also block off the outlet side of the actuator or (2) you put it in a hose attached to the outlet side of the actuator.
If the bleed-off jet is too large, the WG will never open thus you have high boost. I used a jet with 1/32 or 1/16
inch diameter hole.
Same applies to the pre-control actuator.
Direct hose from turbo 1 outlet nipple to input side of boost control valve. Use no pills/jets in the hose unless it is a later RX-7 with it built into the nipple.
Output side of boost control valve; hose to inlet side of the WG actuator. Now you have two options for your bleedoff jet to the atmosphere
1) between the valve and actuator which means you also block off the outlet side of the actuator or (2) you put it in a hose attached to the outlet side of the actuator. If the bleed-off jet is too large, the WG will never open thus you have high boost. I used a jet with 1/32 or 1/16
inch diameter hole.
Same applies to the pre-control actuator.
03-10-04, 01:10 PM
#6
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The waste gate is held closed by a spring (waste gate closed directs all exhaust to the turbos, building boost, waste gate open diverts exhast away from the turbos and down the down pipe, decreasing boost), pressure in the waste gate actuator overcomes the force of the spring holding the wategate closed and causes the wastegate to open, reducing boost. The factory spring requires about 7 PSI pressure in the wastegate actuator before the waste gate will start to open. Since the pressure source for this actuator comes right after the turbo compressors, then the pressure in the wastegate is about equal to the "boost ", or pressure in the intake manifold, minus pressure drop across the intercooler. In factory configuration, a "restrictor pill" (an "orifice plate" in engineering parlance) is inserted into the line between the pressure tap and the wastegate actuator, and the wastegate vent is controlled by the wastegate actuator solinoid. The factory carefully sized the opening in the restrictor pill to limit the flow rate into the actuator to less than the flow rate that the solinoid valve is capable of venting, so that the pressure in the wastegate actuator can be modulated (and thus the position of the wastegate controlled) by cycling the solinoid valve. If you remove the restrictor pill, then as soon as boost builds to about 8 psi, the wastegate opens and no more boost can be built, which is why some people will remove the restrictor as a cheap/effective/temporary way to eliminate boost spikes/uncontrolled overboost.
The purpose of your mod, removing the restrictor pill and adding a needle valve (you are using a needle valve, and not something like a gate valve?) in its place, basically allows you to precisely vary the size of the restrictor pill to achieve a flow rate into the actuator that is less than the flow capability of the solinoid.
You say even with this mod you are getting uncontrolled 15 PSI boost? I bet you have the needle valve for your wastegate actuator all the way closed, thus robbing the wastegate actuator of the pressure it needs to open the wastegate and cut back boost. Open that valve all the way up and go for a drive, i bet you won't get more than 8 PSI boost, and if you still are getting 15+, then you have something hooked up wrong...Once you get the boost to limit to 8 PSI, start closing the valve 1/4 turn at a time until the boost comes back up to what you want.
Mike Parsons
The purpose of your mod, removing the restrictor pill and adding a needle valve (you are using a needle valve, and not something like a gate valve?) in its place, basically allows you to precisely vary the size of the restrictor pill to achieve a flow rate into the actuator that is less than the flow capability of the solinoid.
You say even with this mod you are getting uncontrolled 15 PSI boost? I bet you have the needle valve for your wastegate actuator all the way closed, thus robbing the wastegate actuator of the pressure it needs to open the wastegate and cut back boost. Open that valve all the way up and go for a drive, i bet you won't get more than 8 PSI boost, and if you still are getting 15+, then you have something hooked up wrong...Once you get the boost to limit to 8 PSI, start closing the valve 1/4 turn at a time until the boost comes back up to what you want.
Mike Parsons
03-10-04, 01:21 PM
#7
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The waste gate is held closed by a spring (waste gate closed directs all exhaust to the turbos, building boost, waste gate open diverts exhast away from the turbos and down the down pipe, decreasing boost), pressure in the waste gate actuator overcomes the force of the spring holding the wategate closed and causes the wastegate to open, reducing boost. The factory spring requires about 7 PSI pressure in the wastegate actuator before the waste gate will start to open. Since the pressure source for this actuator comes right after the turbo compressors, then the pressure in the wastegate is about equal to the "boost ", or pressure in the intake manifold, minus pressure drop across the intercooler. In factory configuration, a "restrictor pill" (an "orifice plate" in engineering parlance) is inserted into the line between the pressure tap and the wastegate actuator, and the wastegate vent is controlled by the wastegate actuator solinoid. The factory carefully sized the opening in the restrictor pill to limit the flow rate into the actuator to less than the flow rate that the solinoid valve is capable of venting, so that the pressure in the wastegate actuator can be modulated (and thus the position of the wastegate controlled) by cycling the solinoid valve. If you remove the restrictor pill, then as soon as boost builds to about 8 psi, the wastegate opens and no more boost can be built, which is why some people will remove the restrictor as a cheap/effective/temporary way to eliminate boost spikes/uncontrolled overboost.
The purpose of your mod, removing the restrictor pill and adding a needle valve (you are using a needle valve, and not something like a gate valve?) in its place, basically allows you to precisely vary the size of the restrictor pill to achieve a flow rate into the actuator that is less than the flow capability of the solinoid.
You say even with this mod you are getting uncontrolled 15 PSI boost? I bet you have the needle valve for your wastegate actuator all the way closed, thus robbing the wastegate actuator of the pressure it needs to open the wastegate and cut back boost. Open that valve all the way up and go for a drive, i bet you won't get more than 8 PSI boost, and if you still are getting 15+, then you have something hooked up wrong...Once you get the boost to limit to 8 PSI, start closing the valve 1/4 turn at a time until the boost comes back up to what you want.
Mike Parsons
The purpose of your mod, removing the restrictor pill and adding a needle valve (you are using a needle valve, and not something like a gate valve?) in its place, basically allows you to precisely vary the size of the restrictor pill to achieve a flow rate into the actuator that is less than the flow capability of the solinoid.
You say even with this mod you are getting uncontrolled 15 PSI boost? I bet you have the needle valve for your wastegate actuator all the way closed, thus robbing the wastegate actuator of the pressure it needs to open the wastegate and cut back boost. Open that valve all the way up and go for a drive, i bet you won't get more than 8 PSI boost, and if you still are getting 15+, then you have something hooked up wrong...Once you get the boost to limit to 8 PSI, start closing the valve 1/4 turn at a time until the boost comes back up to what you want.
Mike Parsons
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03-10-04, 01:39 PM
#8
Try running the car with no valves or pills, just vacuum lines. In theory you should get a nice 7-5-7 boost pattern, but with your mods I am thinking you are seeing boost creep. If you see any boost over 7 psi, then either something is wrong in your setup, or you have boost creep, which is very likely considering you have a midpipe. Basically, the wastegate can't physically vent enough boost to keep it at safe levels; the fix is to port your wastegate so it can keep up with the increased amount of boost from your mods.
03-10-04, 06:50 PM
#9
5yr member, joined 2001
Originally posted by afterburn27
Try running the car with no valves or pills, just vacuum lines. In theory you should get a nice 7-5-7 boost pattern, but with your mods I am thinking you are seeing boost creep. If you see any boost over 7 psi, then either something is wrong in your setup, or you have boost creep, which is very likely considering you have a midpipe. Basically, the wastegate can't physically vent enough boost to keep it at safe levels; the fix is to port your wastegate so it can keep up with the increased amount of boost from your mods.
Try running the car with no valves or pills, just vacuum lines. In theory you should get a nice 7-5-7 boost pattern, but with your mods I am thinking you are seeing boost creep. If you see any boost over 7 psi, then either something is wrong in your setup, or you have boost creep, which is very likely considering you have a midpipe. Basically, the wastegate can't physically vent enough boost to keep it at safe levels; the fix is to port your wastegate so it can keep up with the increased amount of boost from your mods.
You can temporarily solve this problem by installing a restrictor plate in your exhaust.
03-10-04, 09:07 PM
#10
Originally posted by afterburn27
Try running the car with no valves or pills, just vacuum lines. In theory you should get a nice 7-5-7 boost pattern, but with your mods I am thinking you are seeing boost creep. If you see any boost over 7 psi, then either something is wrong in your setup, or you have boost creep, which is very likely considering you have a midpipe. Basically, the wastegate can't physically vent enough boost to keep it at safe levels; the fix is to port your wastegate so it can keep up with the increased amount of boost from your mods.
Try running the car with no valves or pills, just vacuum lines. In theory you should get a nice 7-5-7 boost pattern, but with your mods I am thinking you are seeing boost creep. If you see any boost over 7 psi, then either something is wrong in your setup, or you have boost creep, which is very likely considering you have a midpipe. Basically, the wastegate can't physically vent enough boost to keep it at safe levels; the fix is to port your wastegate so it can keep up with the increased amount of boost from your mods.
also i have been wanting to port the wastgates! but im not sure how to do it? correct me if im wrong, but if you port your wastgates it prevents detination right?
03-10-04, 09:11 PM
#11
Originally posted by Mike Nola
The waste gate is held closed by a spring (waste gate closed directs all exhaust to the turbos, building boost, waste gate open diverts exhast away from the turbos and down the down pipe, decreasing boost), pressure in the waste gate actuator overcomes the force of the spring holding the wategate closed and causes the wastegate to open, reducing boost. The factory spring requires about 7 PSI pressure in the wastegate actuator before the waste gate will start to open. Since the pressure source for this actuator comes right after the turbo compressors, then the pressure in the wastegate is about equal to the "boost ", or pressure in the intake manifold, minus pressure drop across the intercooler. In factory configuration, a "restrictor pill" (an "orifice plate" in engineering parlance) is inserted into the line between the pressure tap and the wastegate actuator, and the wastegate vent is controlled by the wastegate actuator solinoid. The factory carefully sized the opening in the restrictor pill to limit the flow rate into the actuator to less than the flow rate that the solinoid valve is capable of venting, so that the pressure in the wastegate actuator can be modulated (and thus the position of the wastegate controlled) by cycling the solinoid valve. If you remove the restrictor pill, then as soon as boost builds to about 8 psi, the wastegate opens and no more boost can be built, which is why some people will remove the restrictor as a cheap/effective/temporary way to eliminate boost spikes/uncontrolled overboost.
The purpose of your mod, removing the restrictor pill and adding a needle valve (you are using a needle valve, and not something like a gate valve?) in its place, basically allows you to precisely vary the size of the restrictor pill to achieve a flow rate into the actuator that is less than the flow capability of the solinoid.
You say even with this mod you are getting uncontrolled 15 PSI boost? I bet you have the needle valve for your wastegate actuator all the way closed, thus robbing the wastegate actuator of the pressure it needs to open the wastegate and cut back boost. Open that valve all the way up and go for a drive, i bet you won't get more than 8 PSI boost, and if you still are getting 15+, then you have something hooked up wrong...Once you get the boost to limit to 8 PSI, start closing the valve 1/4 turn at a time until the boost comes back up to what you want.
Mike Parsons
The waste gate is held closed by a spring (waste gate closed directs all exhaust to the turbos, building boost, waste gate open diverts exhast away from the turbos and down the down pipe, decreasing boost), pressure in the waste gate actuator overcomes the force of the spring holding the wategate closed and causes the wastegate to open, reducing boost. The factory spring requires about 7 PSI pressure in the wastegate actuator before the waste gate will start to open. Since the pressure source for this actuator comes right after the turbo compressors, then the pressure in the wastegate is about equal to the "boost ", or pressure in the intake manifold, minus pressure drop across the intercooler. In factory configuration, a "restrictor pill" (an "orifice plate" in engineering parlance) is inserted into the line between the pressure tap and the wastegate actuator, and the wastegate vent is controlled by the wastegate actuator solinoid. The factory carefully sized the opening in the restrictor pill to limit the flow rate into the actuator to less than the flow rate that the solinoid valve is capable of venting, so that the pressure in the wastegate actuator can be modulated (and thus the position of the wastegate controlled) by cycling the solinoid valve. If you remove the restrictor pill, then as soon as boost builds to about 8 psi, the wastegate opens and no more boost can be built, which is why some people will remove the restrictor as a cheap/effective/temporary way to eliminate boost spikes/uncontrolled overboost.
The purpose of your mod, removing the restrictor pill and adding a needle valve (you are using a needle valve, and not something like a gate valve?) in its place, basically allows you to precisely vary the size of the restrictor pill to achieve a flow rate into the actuator that is less than the flow capability of the solinoid.
You say even with this mod you are getting uncontrolled 15 PSI boost? I bet you have the needle valve for your wastegate actuator all the way closed, thus robbing the wastegate actuator of the pressure it needs to open the wastegate and cut back boost. Open that valve all the way up and go for a drive, i bet you won't get more than 8 PSI boost, and if you still are getting 15+, then you have something hooked up wrong...Once you get the boost to limit to 8 PSI, start closing the valve 1/4 turn at a time until the boost comes back up to what you want.
Mike Parsons
03-11-04, 10:36 AM
#13
development
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=281085
Try two of these to control boost, should work like a charm.
Try two of these to control boost, should work like a charm.
03-11-04, 12:00 PM
#14
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Porting your wastegate will not prevent detination, it will prevent boost creep. Boost creep happens when the boost controller is holding the wastegate wide open, but due to the relatively small opening of the stock wastegate, not enough exhuast gas is diverted away from the turbos to reduce boost. This will result in in a relatively slow creep upwards of boost pressure as RPMs increase. By porting the waste gate you actually grind away metal around the wastegate opening to physically make it larger, and thus capable of venting a larger volume of exhaust gas away from the turbos.
Does your boost quickly jump up to 15+ PSI or does it gradually climb up as RPMs rise?
If it is quickly jumping up then your next step is to inspect the wastegate actuator, its connection rod to the wastegate lever arm and the waste gate itself for proper function. You should be stroke the actuator rod manually. Disconnect and cap off the actuator vent hose (thats the one going to the solinoid valve), then apply pressure to the other line, and you should see the actuator stroke the wastegate open.
Mike
Does your boost quickly jump up to 15+ PSI or does it gradually climb up as RPMs rise?
If it is quickly jumping up then your next step is to inspect the wastegate actuator, its connection rod to the wastegate lever arm and the waste gate itself for proper function. You should be stroke the actuator rod manually. Disconnect and cap off the actuator vent hose (thats the one going to the solinoid valve), then apply pressure to the other line, and you should see the actuator stroke the wastegate open.
Mike
03-11-04, 12:53 PM
#15
Originally posted by Mike Nola
Wait i minute, i just looked at your mod list and got confused. If you have profec B II then why are you ******* around with manual boost controllers?
Mike
Wait i minute, i just looked at your mod list and got confused. If you have profec B II then why are you ******* around with manual boost controllers?
Mike
03-11-04, 12:59 PM
#16
Originally posted by Mike Nola
Porting your wastegate will not prevent detination, it will prevent boost creep. Boost creep happens when the boost controller is holding the wastegate wide open, but due to the relatively small opening of the stock wastegate, not enough exhuast gas is diverted away from the turbos to reduce boost. This will result in in a relatively slow creep upwards of boost pressure as RPMs increase. By porting the waste gate you actually grind away metal around the wastegate opening to physically make it larger, and thus capable of venting a larger volume of exhaust gas away from the turbos.
Does your boost quickly jump up to 15+ PSI or does it gradually climb up as RPMs rise?
If it is quickly jumping up then your next step is to inspect the wastegate actuator, its connection rod to the wastegate lever arm and the waste gate itself for proper function. You should be stroke the actuator rod manually. Disconnect and cap off the actuator vent hose (thats the one going to the solinoid valve), then apply pressure to the other line, and you should see the actuator stroke the wastegate open.
Mike
Porting your wastegate will not prevent detination, it will prevent boost creep. Boost creep happens when the boost controller is holding the wastegate wide open, but due to the relatively small opening of the stock wastegate, not enough exhuast gas is diverted away from the turbos to reduce boost. This will result in in a relatively slow creep upwards of boost pressure as RPMs increase. By porting the waste gate you actually grind away metal around the wastegate opening to physically make it larger, and thus capable of venting a larger volume of exhaust gas away from the turbos.
Does your boost quickly jump up to 15+ PSI or does it gradually climb up as RPMs rise?
If it is quickly jumping up then your next step is to inspect the wastegate actuator, its connection rod to the wastegate lever arm and the waste gate itself for proper function. You should be stroke the actuator rod manually. Disconnect and cap off the actuator vent hose (thats the one going to the solinoid valve), then apply pressure to the other line, and you should see the actuator stroke the wastegate open.
Mike
03-11-04, 02:38 PM
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Detonation in modded rotaries is primarily caused by an excessively lean fuel/air mixture. Excessive spark advance can also cause it. It is too be avoided in rotories like the plauge, as a rotary is unlikely to survice even a little bit of detonation without significant internal damage. In a "normal" combustion cycle the compressed fuel air mixture is ignited by the spark plug and the fuel/air mixture burns (relatively) slowly, with the flame front starting at the point of ignition and traveling outward, generating a (relatively) slow and steady increase in chamber pressure that pushes the rotor around. In detonation the fuel air mixture explodes all at once, generating a sudden increase in chamber pressure. When the shock wave from this explosion hits the apex seals, they break.
Sounds like you have a problem with your wastegate...it is not opening, check it out.
Mike
Sounds like you have a problem with your wastegate...it is not opening, check it out.
Mike
03-11-04, 03:25 PM
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Detonation in modded rotaries is primarily caused by an excessively lean fuel/air mixture. Excessive spark advance can also cause it. It is too be avoided in rotories like the plauge, as a rotary is unlikely to survice even a little bit of detonation without significant internal damage. In a "normal" combustion cycle the compressed fuel air mixture is ignited by the spark plug and the fuel/air mixture burns (relatively) slowly, with the flame front starting at the point of ignition and traveling outward, generating a (relatively) slow and steady increase in chamber pressure that pushes the rotor around. In detonation the fuel air mixture explodes all at once, generating a sudden increase in chamber pressure. When the shock wave from this explosion hits the apex seals, they break.
Sounds like you have a problem with your wastegate...it is not opening, check it out.
Mike
Sounds like you have a problem with your wastegate...it is not opening, check it out.
Mike
03-12-04, 12:55 AM
#20
Originally posted by Mike Nola
Detonation in modded rotaries is primarily caused by an excessively lean fuel/air mixture. Excessive spark advance can also cause it. It is too be avoided in rotories like the plauge, as a rotary is unlikely to survice even a little bit of detonation without significant internal damage. In a "normal" combustion cycle the compressed fuel air mixture is ignited by the spark plug and the fuel/air mixture burns (relatively) slowly, with the flame front starting at the point of ignition and traveling outward, generating a (relatively) slow and steady increase in chamber pressure that pushes the rotor around. In detonation the fuel air mixture explodes all at once, generating a sudden increase in chamber pressure. When the shock wave from this explosion hits the apex seals, they break.
Sounds like you have a problem with your wastegate...it is not opening, check it out.
Mike
Detonation in modded rotaries is primarily caused by an excessively lean fuel/air mixture. Excessive spark advance can also cause it. It is too be avoided in rotories like the plauge, as a rotary is unlikely to survice even a little bit of detonation without significant internal damage. In a "normal" combustion cycle the compressed fuel air mixture is ignited by the spark plug and the fuel/air mixture burns (relatively) slowly, with the flame front starting at the point of ignition and traveling outward, generating a (relatively) slow and steady increase in chamber pressure that pushes the rotor around. In detonation the fuel air mixture explodes all at once, generating a sudden increase in chamber pressure. When the shock wave from this explosion hits the apex seals, they break.
Sounds like you have a problem with your wastegate...it is not opening, check it out.
Mike
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