BNR Considerations
03-08-20, 04:45 AM
#1
BNR Considerations
I keep saying "Okay, I will just finish XYZ and be DONE for a while and just DRIVE the car." And then I find an excuse to spend more money...
A friend of mine from back home owns an auto shop, and he keeps bugging me to bring my car up and put it on the lift to do some work. There certainly are a few things that having a lift, experienced mechanic, and fully stocked shop would come in handy for! So I have been trying to figure out the best use of this situation, and I'm leaning towards installing a set of the new stage 2 BNRs. After all, it would be rude not to, right?
I figure that I have a pretty good foundation in place already:
- Intake/Efini Y-pipe/(soon to be) U-type SMIC
- DP/highflow cat/RB dual tip
- RP fuel pump/rewire/stock primaries/2200 secondaries
- Twin power
- Aftermarket boost control
- HDSS clutch
- Koyo radiator
- PowerFC
- Stock port, 30K miles
- Single stock oil cooler
So generally speaking, I should be fairly prepared...
I've read every thread here with the word "BNR" in the title so I feel *somewhat* informed on the subject. Looking at the FSM, surprisingly it doesn't look all that difficult to remove/re-install the turbos. (What am I missing??) The new BNR stage 2's apparently don't require elongating the Y-pipe like the old stage 3's did, so I assume that means the assembly is the same overall length as stock. That should make installation and keeping the air pump easier.
Anyway, for those who have done BNRs or have experience with them, what tips or advice do you have? I know I will need a 3-bar MAP sensor. I have also gathered a list of gaskets, hoses, etc that should be replaced during the process. This includes things like oil crush washers, the two soft coolant hoses, and a few extra studs & bolts for the DP and manifold. Anything else I should have on hand/be prepared to replace? Or anything else that's a good idea to do while I'm there?
One thing I'm concerned about, and one of the main reasons I never really considered BNRs in the past, is how the factory solenoids will handle the increased boost. I know at least a few of them have a tendency to stick when boost pressure is increased, even with factory turbos. Should I be worried about them handling 15/16/17 PSI? I didn't see anybody talk about sticking solenoids specifically with regards to BNRs so hopefully that means it's a non-issue as long as the solenoids are healthy (I recently replaced all mine).
This all seems too easy... could it really be as easy as just bolting the new turbos in, adjusting boost, and re-tuning...?
A friend of mine from back home owns an auto shop, and he keeps bugging me to bring my car up and put it on the lift to do some work. There certainly are a few things that having a lift, experienced mechanic, and fully stocked shop would come in handy for! So I have been trying to figure out the best use of this situation, and I'm leaning towards installing a set of the new stage 2 BNRs. After all, it would be rude not to, right?
I figure that I have a pretty good foundation in place already:
- Intake/Efini Y-pipe/(soon to be) U-type SMIC
- DP/highflow cat/RB dual tip
- RP fuel pump/rewire/stock primaries/2200 secondaries
- Twin power
- Aftermarket boost control
- HDSS clutch
- Koyo radiator
- PowerFC
- Stock port, 30K miles
- Single stock oil cooler
So generally speaking, I should be fairly prepared...
I've read every thread here with the word "BNR" in the title so I feel *somewhat* informed on the subject. Looking at the FSM, surprisingly it doesn't look all that difficult to remove/re-install the turbos. (What am I missing??) The new BNR stage 2's apparently don't require elongating the Y-pipe like the old stage 3's did, so I assume that means the assembly is the same overall length as stock. That should make installation and keeping the air pump easier.
Anyway, for those who have done BNRs or have experience with them, what tips or advice do you have? I know I will need a 3-bar MAP sensor. I have also gathered a list of gaskets, hoses, etc that should be replaced during the process. This includes things like oil crush washers, the two soft coolant hoses, and a few extra studs & bolts for the DP and manifold. Anything else I should have on hand/be prepared to replace? Or anything else that's a good idea to do while I'm there?
One thing I'm concerned about, and one of the main reasons I never really considered BNRs in the past, is how the factory solenoids will handle the increased boost. I know at least a few of them have a tendency to stick when boost pressure is increased, even with factory turbos. Should I be worried about them handling 15/16/17 PSI? I didn't see anybody talk about sticking solenoids specifically with regards to BNRs so hopefully that means it's a non-issue as long as the solenoids are healthy (I recently replaced all mine).
This all seems too easy... could it really be as easy as just bolting the new turbos in, adjusting boost, and re-tuning...?
Last edited by mkd; 03-08-20 at 04:52 AM.
03-08-20, 09:34 AM
#2
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
Pretty much just plug and play. You will definitely need to look at a re-tune.
The lift won't help out a whole bunch all things considered. Lifts are awesome for doing clutch jobs and major suspension work, but there's not too much you have to do under the car to pull the turbos.
That said, the biggest gotcha is if you have a broken or siezed bolt/nut/stud - that really makes it a pain. But, the engine has low mileage so hopefully the fasteners are fairly happy. Soak them down with PB Blaster for sure.
I *think* to get a set you have to send a core in to BNR. I would probably find a good core you can buy off someone to send in, that way you don't have the car taken apart for ages.
1/4" drive tools for the oil drain lines, that makes a BIG difference.
You don't totally need a 3 bar MAP sensor, that's only if you really start to crank the boost. If you stick around 14 psi you'll be fine on the stock sensor. That would make for a VERY fast car.
Sticking solenoids could be a problem, there are ways to bleed off some of the excess pressure to limit what they see. Search around on that. They really only need 10psi or so to do their jobs.
Dale
The lift won't help out a whole bunch all things considered. Lifts are awesome for doing clutch jobs and major suspension work, but there's not too much you have to do under the car to pull the turbos.
That said, the biggest gotcha is if you have a broken or siezed bolt/nut/stud - that really makes it a pain. But, the engine has low mileage so hopefully the fasteners are fairly happy. Soak them down with PB Blaster for sure.
I *think* to get a set you have to send a core in to BNR. I would probably find a good core you can buy off someone to send in, that way you don't have the car taken apart for ages.
1/4" drive tools for the oil drain lines, that makes a BIG difference.
You don't totally need a 3 bar MAP sensor, that's only if you really start to crank the boost. If you stick around 14 psi you'll be fine on the stock sensor. That would make for a VERY fast car.
Sticking solenoids could be a problem, there are ways to bleed off some of the excess pressure to limit what they see. Search around on that. They really only need 10psi or so to do their jobs.
Dale
03-08-20, 09:57 AM
#3
My turbos are at BNR right now getting the Stage 2+. The M8 (the small stud in the exhaust manifold) decided to sheer off. Other then that, every single stud came out when removing the turbo. So plan on replacing all the hardware if they don't come out nicely. The stock nuts are friction nuts and they do not like to come off. Two of the exhaust manifold to rotor housing studs came out as well. I don't know the full history on my car, but that said the turbo exhaust manifold was completely cooked. Lot of heat, and 100k miles on it.
03-08-20, 11:14 AM
#4
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you only need the 3 bar map sensor if you're going over what the stock sensor reads (17psi?).
with the car i'm building now, i'm using new Mazda studs, which are Inconel, and some Mercedes nuts. the Mecedes parts were CHEAP, and they are the same 14mm head. it is a lock nut, but they look to not be as aggressive as Mazda. not sure what they are made from, but they are a nice copper color (they were like $0.02 each, its not copper) BMW has one too, but it didn't look as good and it was more $$. part number is 0009-90-3150. Mazda also has a plain nut that is Inconel but doesn't lock (inconel and inconel are not nice to each other) 8134-40-355
that all being said use the lift to do stuff under the car, suspension, bushings, brakes, clean the gas tank, diff mounts...
with the car i'm building now, i'm using new Mazda studs, which are Inconel, and some Mercedes nuts. the Mecedes parts were CHEAP, and they are the same 14mm head. it is a lock nut, but they look to not be as aggressive as Mazda. not sure what they are made from, but they are a nice copper color (they were like $0.02 each, its not copper) BMW has one too, but it didn't look as good and it was more $$. part number is 0009-90-3150. Mazda also has a plain nut that is Inconel but doesn't lock (inconel and inconel are not nice to each other) 8134-40-355
that all being said use the lift to do stuff under the car, suspension, bushings, brakes, clean the gas tank, diff mounts...
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F1blueRx7 (03-08-20)
03-08-20, 12:21 PM
#5
The whole story of working on my car is a bitch because where I live I have no room to work on it, so all my tools and parts are back home at my folk's place 200 miles away, and all the work I do has to be perfectly planned ahead of time and executed with little delay or I get to take a rental car back to work the next week (hasn't happened yet!).
Also, I only have access to 91 gas here so that's a bummer.I was under the impression that you don't have to remove the exhaust manifold to get the turbos/wastegate manifold off. Am I mistaken?
03-09-20, 09:12 AM
#7
RX-7 Bad Ass
iTrader: (55)
Yeah, the Mazda OEM nuts are WAY too aggressive. The copper lock nuts do much better - they will stay in place but they don't work their way loose.
This is an example -
https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/M1...-p/pm33630.htm
That company has all those nuts for a great price. I don't think that's the size you need, I'd research and get the right size, but you can see what I'm talking about.
Dale
This is an example -
https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/M1...-p/pm33630.htm
That company has all those nuts for a great price. I don't think that's the size you need, I'd research and get the right size, but you can see what I'm talking about.
Dale
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03-09-20, 10:05 AM
#8
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Yeah, the Mazda OEM nuts are WAY too aggressive. The copper lock nuts do much better - they will stay in place but they don't work their way loose.
This is an example -
https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/M1...-p/pm33630.htm
That company has all those nuts for a great price. I don't think that's the size you need, I'd research and get the right size, but you can see what I'm talking about.
Dale
This is an example -
https://www.clipsandfasteners.com/M1...-p/pm33630.htm
That company has all those nuts for a great price. I don't think that's the size you need, I'd research and get the right size, but you can see what I'm talking about.
Dale
03-09-20, 10:21 AM
#9
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I feel like it'd be a shame to put BNRs on without going to at least 15. However I've head people imply that X PSI on stockers is not the same as X PSI on BNRs, and that the BNRs will make more power at the same boost level. That makes no sense to me, however. Also, I only have access to 91 gas here so that's a bummer.
Also, I only have access to 91 gas here so that's a bummer.
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