kwikrx7

$700 for rebuilt twins
$1250 for rebuilt primary, upgraded secondary
$1650 upgraded both twins

All new internals (HTR)
1 year unlimited mile warranty
Seems pretty knowledgeable about turbos - anybody out there have experience with them?

artguy

beware upgrading the stock set. apparently the shafts are too small to handle the weight and size of the larger wheels. if they have found a solution to the problem then maybe things are ok.

however my shop and the turbo shop that rebuilt my set the last time both refuse to do any upgrades to the stock set because of their previous experience with the failures of such sets.

Id like to hear from someone who uses the upgraded set...so far have only spoken with people who had done it themselves in terms of the work.

I checked into this myself a while back....I got nothing but negative feedback about doing such modifications to already finicky and inadequate stock turbos.

best of luck...Im telling ya..rebuilding those suckers is a waste of money...might as well wait a couple months and get a new set, go single or go m2. I went thru three sets of turbos in the last couple years...I know about wasting money. I should have gone single or m2 a long time ago.


jason

Lost Time

I know the guy who owns/runs BNR. He is very experienced working with tubos. Give him a call, I'm sure he'll be more than happy to talk everything over with you.

kwikrx7

artguy, you're doing a good job of talking me out of this but unless you can find me a group rate on a T04E then I don't have a choice. Even the cost of 2 rebuilds over a few years doesn't equal the price of a decent single. I want to be one of the few who runs upgraded twins non-sequentially to see the power benefit. Your M2s running non-seq. would be mindboggling - probably get full boost by 3-3.2K with the ball-bearing and your mods you would be around 380 rwhp I'm looking to be around 350-360 rwhp at 12-14 psi - let me know how you like your M2s when setup - they should rip!

artguy

yur nuts.

fourteen pounds and your cooked within the year MAX...tis not my job to find you parts...your car will leak oil from those turbos which could end up causing a fire or stinky interior...... it is my feeling that I need to suggest the foolery of doing what I did.

I dont want to go sequential...lag sucks. I dont care if I could beat a friggen modded diablo..if my low end stinks then driving around town stinks. I got the m2s for the power and the quick spool up. my streetport is generous enuff to cause me the lag i need. heheeh

search for turbo upgrades and see how many failures there have been with high boost and larger wheels...

save the dough..get a new set...or spend the dough..run them sequentially and see what it is like...but dont look for it to be anything more than an experiment....it wont last...and when they cook and break apart from brittleness watch for engine damage too. if you dont care about your car...go for it.

Im a pessimist. hahah

FEARED7

New is a waste!

rotorbrain

artguy, you have the m2 upgraded twins right? i noticed that they did not have a warranty on them. the bnr set does, however. i would like to know if they have any kind of record on messing up during street use and spirited driving. right now im not doing any autoxing, but i do plan on it. i was gonna get the bnr set due to its warranty (1 yr.), but if it breaks after that year then it isnt worth it. i really dont want to go single. i want the power but the lag is what turns me away. the m2 set is what seems to be nice. i just dont like the 3000 dollars that you have to pay to get them, especially since they have no warranty. the only thread that i have seen about them is yours and honestly, you havent had yours long enough for me to be convinced that they will last a long time. unless im mistaken about how long youve had them. any info on this?

Nathan Kwok

Artguy,
You weren't rebuilding the same set of used turbos over and over again were you?

racer rx

Hi Artguy,

Did you say you went thru 3 turbos in one year? What were the problems with them? Oil leaks? Internal or External?

My secondary is leaking a few minutes after shut down
causing a slight whiteish smoking tailpipe and a burnt oil smell. "But boost is still good". How long do you think I will make it without changing my turbos?

Or what can happen to them... leaking oil from the internal seal?

thanks for the help jc.

SPOautos

Brian at BNR has some awsome turbos. He knows his **** and builds them his self.

As for the post about the stock shafts being too small, if I'm not misstaken he uses a upgraded(larger) shaft. I'd call Brian and ask him about it, he's a real nice guy.

Also, you shouldnt have a problems with his turbos unless you abuse them. Unlike most turbo builder that do eveything half assed, he replaces everything. Most shops wont replace something unless it's out of spec so you have worn parts in there just waiting to fail. Brian knows people will be beating on his turbos so he replaces everything.

Later,
STEPHEN

artguy

my rebuilt crap lasted and boosted well even though they leaked like mad...the leak will just get worse...I reached the point of going thru a quart of oil every 250 miles after starting out with a minor leak....finally I changed em.

running high boost (13lbs) shredded the wheels from heat....if you saw my turbo wheels you would cringe...they were black and melted and chipped away. (that sure must have been good for my rotors).

I was running hitachi cartriges each time.

by the way...in my experience Warrantees dont mean JACK! Mine had the verbal warrantee as well...oh our turbos are warranteed for a year they said...they when I sent em back to them they said the wheels were damaged from my abuse...regardless of the fact that they sounded like a dentist drill from the moment I put them on. I even drove the guy in my car to show him...even showed him the leaks....regardless they refused to cover the parts and I got stuck with the bill.

I havent had the m2 set long enuff to know if they will hold up...if they do not I will let you know. however they are designed to handle high boost (up to twenty lbs) which the stock set will not do....well at least for long.

j

racer rx

Hi Artguy,

Thanks for the reply.

I added the M2 intake hardpipe for the rear turbo early this year. "Looks really cool/Polished" Then I got the slight burnt oil smell and smoke from the exhaust. When the car shut off after the turbo timer.

This week I sent that pipe to get Ceramic coated and put the factory acordian pipe back in. Now no burnt oil and smoke from the exhaust.

What could the M2 metal intake pipe be doing?

confused jc.

matt_ledbetter

I've been trying to find out if BNR re-sleeves the shafts... Turbo Specialties told me they do and I'm pretty sure the upgrades are similar.

-Matt

FEARED7

Hey Matt. The Compressor wheels are sleeved. The shafts are the factory shafts. I check them for straitness and make sure they aren't bent at any measure. Then I do a clip job on the turbine wheels. Then I rebalance just the turbine wheel, then balance the compressor wheel, then balance the full rotating assembly . Ver tedious process! If the shafts are bent any slight way it will throw them out of balance. The trick is Balancing. The least amount of vibrations the better off your turbo will be!
As for your tips of your blades! That is caused either by apex seals going throught your turbos, or it is caused by EGT's. A turbine wheels' melting point is about 1800 degrees F.
take care,
Bryan

WhtRocket

I'm sure BNR is totally cool and great guys. And physics does not care. I tried the larger compressor wheel on stock shafts and it rocked for about 5k miles. Then the shaft broke and the compressor blades sprayed all over the IC. Very fortunately that did not take out my new motor (I managed that later ;D ). It did trash the IC. Frequently a blown priamry compressor wheel will take the whole motor. So a set of turbos can get really exspensive.

The guy who build mine stopped making them, told my shop mine were "for race only" and had no warrantee. Then he built up a set for labor only (lucky me....sort of).

Anyway, basic message is larger compressors on stock shafts is not a good idea. Most turbo shops have stopped doing this. At least some of them must have also really know thier ****. Not trying to dist BNR, maybe they have something nobody else in the turbo rebuild buisness has. Or maybe physics will have it's way, like it has for ever.

SPOautos

Its all in the balancing. You have to be VERY accurate with your balancing, which BNR is. He does them himself to make sure its done right.

STEPHEN

es

Whtrocket, from what I read out of FEARED7's post there is nothing mentioning "larger wheels" on the stock shaft. Just the sleeve & clip for flow.

FEARED7 would you mind going into some detail about the "Sleeve"? Does it add weight to the wheel? Does it add weight at the outter edges of the wheels?

If the weight is the same then you shouldn't have the problems that so many have had with the "larger wheel" upgrade...

kwikrx7

no, the upgrades do have larger compressor wheels. It will put more pressure on the shaft but if balanced right (which nobody seems to do except BNR) then they should be reliable for quite awhile. Also I'm going to run the HTB upgrades non-sequentially so there will be much less stress on the shafts since there won't be that blast of power at transition on the secondary. For the upgrades, the dip in power at transition is more like 3-4 psi rather than 1-2 psi with the stockers so if the upgrades are not precision balanced and tediously rebuilt then I could see awful reliability. there has to be a reason that he is offering a 1 year, unlimited mile warranty on his turbos. Nobody else does this with upgraded twins.

FEARED7

Hey fellas, I have some results of a set of stage 2 HTB hybrids. Car had basic mods: exhaust, intake, PFS SMIC, 1200 secondaries, Sequential set up and 15 psi of boost. He laid down 386 RWHP at 15 psi and that is with no turbine wheel clip! I would estimate about a 10 or so RWHP increase by doing the clips on both turbine wheels . I have to get ahold of a dynochart, and when I do I will put her on the forum.
take care,
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

BATMAN

please do