Alright heres the deal the next big step in my list of plans for my car is to do the full non-sequential setup now i have seen threads that basically say that an after market ecu is necessary I am going to list my mods and how I plan on controlling boost then chime in and let me know if there is need for an aftermarket ecu.
Here are my mods Apexi Gt spec catback,midpipe,downpipe,open air intake system,apexi blowoff valve,streetported motor,and when I am done the full non sequential system. I am going to be picking up a pretty capable electronic boost-controller to limit the boost to a max of 11psi. If I keep the boost to the 11psi range than why would an aftermarket ecu be needed? Thanks for the help guys...

 

you know i asked the same question about 6 mo. ago, and a ton of people told me to search. I didn't really understand why they wouldn't just answer my question until now.... jeeze this question gets asked at least 3 time a week!

yes you need a ecu. as soon as you said midpipe you need an ecu. there is a general rule that once you go over 3 mods you need to upgrade your ecu. I personally think thats a little much. You should be okay as long as you can maintain 10 psi with a boost controller. As soon as you start to over boost your screwed. How can you spen soooo much on bolt ons and not get an ecu?

IN SHORT GET THE ECU!!!!!!

 

IMO: ECU should be the first thing to get.

If I had to do it over again.. ECU is the first MOD
on the list..

BTW: get a stand alone.. Not reprogrammed or Piggyback.

 

If you have to ask ........

 

hummmmm........looks like everyone suggests the new ecu for the mods I have. My car runs excellent its hard rationalizing spending another 1300.00 to safeguard the motor soo to speak.

 

On a stock car? That would be a total waste of cash. Something wrong with the stock ECU?

 

The motor will cost more then $1300 to replace if you do not safeguard it.

PS. Do you have a Wide Band O2? Then how do you know you are running a safe setup.

 

Look at it this way. You can spend $1300 for an EMS, or you can spend $5000+ for a new motor. It's not a matter of rationalization, it's common sense.

BTW, "bruddah", I live in Cali but I'm currently vacationing in Hawaii. I was in Hilo last week checking out the lava flows. Aloha!

 

Whos stock car?

Boostr, plans on doing alot.
and when do any FD owners ever stop modding
after the first mod??

Pay 800-1300 now

or

pay 5K for motor/labor + 800-1300 later???

eventually everyone gets a Standalone..
Might as well bite the bullet and get it over with??

 

The stock ECU can handle more than you think. See this page for reference:

http://www.newwave.net/~flanham/wlan.../3modrule.html

 

You will be fine on the stock ecu as long as you don't go over 10 psi. However, this is impossible after you go non-sequential and run downpipe/midpipe/catback, even when you port the wastegate as big as it can go.

To keep 10 psi, you either have to have a cat or use some type of restrictor in the exhaust. I have downpipe/midpipe/catback/intake and non-seq on the stock ecu, but i have the wastegate directly connected to the UIM, so I only run 7 psi (creeping up to 8-9). With my wideband, I see mid 10 a/f ratios above 5k rpm.

 

runnin a mid pipe you will need a ecu 'power fc' would be a nice choice..

 

No you don't.

 

If you plan on getting a midpipe you will need to get a ECU, unless you want to drive it only for a few weeks, before your engine pops. You can put on a midpipe on a stock ECU but there are consequences. I was talking to my mechanic and he said a guy's car he was working on had a midpipe installed, and it gave him hella more power yadyadyad and after 2 weeks pop, bye bye motor. So you choose. Go with the ECU.

 

The guy's engine popped because he was still sequential. I bet he got a very large boost spike when the second turbo kicked in. It's not that hard keeping the boost at 10psi with ALL BOLT ONS if you have a good boost controller and non-sequential.

 

truth is it is hard to tell. there are lots o people who run those mods with a profec-b and are seq with np. the afr is what is important. ported with an intercooler upgrade and i would def say you will ned some more fuel. stock intercooler keep it at 10 and you should be ok. the fuel sys should be perfect though ie fuel filter pump strenght and fpr functioning. get it on a wide band for 5 min and you will know for sure!

 

well with the Mid pipe is highly recommended but with a MP and street port deffenetly.

 

speedking: No kidding I live actually in hilo on the Big Island we could have met up and I could have showed you my ride...actually the time you were her I think we wer racing down at the drags I am sure you would have got a kick out of that...

Alright for the most part I have researched and come up with a few of my own conclusions after the non sequential is performed I will still be running the stock intercooler. Now with a good boost controller if the boost wont be let past 10 psi or 11 psi than the stock computer should have no problem keeping the motor in check. Considering that the stock motor at 10 psi was controlled by what ..... stock ecu. Some guys have mentioned a wideband thats a very knowledable decision I think I shall purchase a wideband since I will probably need it in the long run and check to see where I stand.

littlemilla3: Why do you say it would be impossible to keep the boost at 10psi with a boost controller...isnt that what they were designed to do limit the boost to a specific setting?!
This could evolve into a big debate but i really think that the stock ecu was designed well with a small margin for upgrades and if the boost stays where it should be than there will be not detonation. Feel free to chime in!

 

Don't forget if you throw an apex seal, you can count on replacing the turbos

 

The boost controller will have no control over the boost creep. Here's what happens when you go non-seq and run strait through exhaust: the turbos get so much more efficient, that it is impossible for the wastegate to bypass enough exhaust, even when you port it. The wastegate is either open or closed, it doesnt matter whether you have a 500 dollar Apex or HKS EBC or you have no boost controller at all, either way, the wastegate will be fully opened, but it isn't big enough to bypass enough exhaust, get it?

Just run no boost controller and run a vacuum hose directly from the UIM to the wastegate actuator, this is what I do, it will keep your boost at a safe 7 psi (creeping up to 8-9). As I said earlier, using this set up, i have AFR's in the 10's, so I know it's safe.

 

I agree, you can't control boost if you've reach the physical limitation of the stock wastegate. But every car is different, and lucky for me I don't have boost creep. Through out the years of being on here I've heard of members getting alot of creep with a midpipe and others who get none. Fortunately I'm in the no creep group. Then again my turbos are still the orginals with over 110k miles on them. That's why I'm hopefully going single next year if my budget allows it. I will repeat again, EVERY CAR IS DIFFERENT. Happy rotoring.

 

Confussius (however you spell it) says..

Betta tu bea safa, dhan sowee..

get the ECU and get it over with, BEFORE something
happens.. Because eventually. you gonna get it..
a ECU or a PING...

Yea mod your FD, and take your chances with the
stock ECU.. If you want to take a crap shoot with
your FD and all the $$ you or will have invested.

Becaues if you are unfortunate to have a Creep and
PING.. and you cough up 5K for motor and etc..
You gonna be thinking " GOD Damn" this 5K could
of gone for mjy SINGLE turbo conversion..

Goodluck..

 

Oh yea last but not least..

if you get a aftermarket ECU..

You will Sleep alot better

 

For the no boost controller setup I have to plumb a line from the wastegate actuator to the UIM..UIM stands for? Also why will doing it that way limit it to 7psi creeping to 8-9psi and if i use a EBC it will not be able to keep the boost where I want it. I realize that the wastegate is either open or closed but wouldn't they both act the same on closing the wastegate or opening it?!
Thanks guys you have all been an extreme help on this I do realize that it is a sort of gamble... and with our cars we dont have room for error so I take every post into consideration. Thanks for the help..

 

ok, i know the power fc has been the standard for a while now but someone told me that the greddy e-mannage was starting to show up alot more and that when it has all the options, it has more (his quote) programable functions than the apex....please confirm or debunk this.