Abs Or No Abs
11-06-02, 10:36 PM
#1
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Abs Or No Abs
I was thinking of removing my ABS because its been giving me problems. Any here done this like or you dont?
What are the disadvantages. Are my braking times lengthend or shortened?
Please advise
Thank you all
What are the disadvantages. Are my braking times lengthend or shortened?
Please advise
Thank you all
11-06-02, 10:38 PM
#2
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Do not remove the ABS on your FD. I autocross my car and ABS was the best thing to happen to the FD. Many racers in new Porsches and Z06's still wish their brakes were as good as the FD's. Braking times will increase without ABS. Spend the money and get your brakes fixed.
By the way, what is wrong with your ABS?
By the way, what is wrong with your ABS?
11-06-02, 10:39 PM
#3
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i would bet lengthen due to tires just locking up. Also, if i remember correctly, ABS is considered the #1 thing to prevent accidents. So pretty much if it is for street driving you might wanna keep it. I've always wanted to get rid of it just to clean up the engine bay alittle. hope that helps
11-06-02, 10:48 PM
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I just took mine out. I don't have my car running so I can't tell you how it is. I have never even been close to using the ABS so that's why I took it out. That and to clean up some space.
I have read that you can break just as good or even better than ABS. I can't remember what I read but they had professional drivers break with abs and then without. Some broke shorter, some broke longer than with ABS. I really think if you're a good enough driver, you don't need ABS on a street car. I'm not saying I'm a professional driver and know how to brake without ABS, but I will be doing some testing soon just in case
I would like to know people that autocross if they think taking the ABS out is a good idea. I've never been autocrossing so I don't know why people would want to slam on there brakes, especially in turns like I've read before
I have read that you can break just as good or even better than ABS. I can't remember what I read but they had professional drivers break with abs and then without. Some broke shorter, some broke longer than with ABS. I really think if you're a good enough driver, you don't need ABS on a street car. I'm not saying I'm a professional driver and know how to brake without ABS, but I will be doing some testing soon just in case
I would like to know people that autocross if they think taking the ABS out is a good idea. I've never been autocrossing so I don't know why people would want to slam on there brakes, especially in turns like I've read before
11-06-02, 11:36 PM
#6
I auto-x like crazy, 10-15 events per year. ABS is very helpful. Hard braking at the limit can lock up the inside front tire leading to flat spots on the tires, the ABS keeps that from happening.
I've also had it help out on the street, I love ABS! KEEP THE ABS. Really the system is simple, there are basically 3 components in a simplified R+R type diagnosis.
1. ABS pump, located under the hood, pass side near firewall. Easy to find used.
2. ABS computer, located under the trunk trim in the rear. I haven't heard of one going bad, I've got 3 extras if you want to buy one.
3. Wheel sensors, actually 4 of them. Make sure the sensors aren't "blinded" by a build-up of metal shavings, clean them if you see a bunch of metal shavings stuck to them. If you get an ABS light only after the car starts moving you probably have a bad sensor, test resistance, should be ~ 760 ohms. Rear sensor connectors are located under the bins. Fronts are located in the engine compartment.
Good luck!
Jef
I've also had it help out on the street, I love ABS! KEEP THE ABS. Really the system is simple, there are basically 3 components in a simplified R+R type diagnosis.
1. ABS pump, located under the hood, pass side near firewall. Easy to find used.
2. ABS computer, located under the trunk trim in the rear. I haven't heard of one going bad, I've got 3 extras if you want to buy one.
3. Wheel sensors, actually 4 of them. Make sure the sensors aren't "blinded" by a build-up of metal shavings, clean them if you see a bunch of metal shavings stuck to them. If you get an ABS light only after the car starts moving you probably have a bad sensor, test resistance, should be ~ 760 ohms. Rear sensor connectors are located under the bins. Fronts are located in the engine compartment.
Good luck!
Jef
11-07-02, 12:23 PM
#7
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The best way to decide is to wait for a rainy day drive down a road at 50 mph and have one of your friends pull out in front of you. I think you might be able to decide then. 
by the way please do this test with the ABS in
by the way please do this test with the ABS in
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11-07-02, 12:26 PM
#8
I have heard that with the factory wheels that ABS does indeed help stopping distance and time but with larger aftermarket wheels that you actually stop faster and shorter without ABS. I am still debating about removing mine. I do not Auto-X ever, just drag race and when I go drag racing I have to pull the ABS fuse out anyways. So I am really leaning towards removing mine. Jspecracer7 had good instructions on how to do it.
11-07-02, 12:53 PM
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I can't believe you've never felt the ABS on public streets. I have felt it kick in several times, especially on rough pavement. Albeit my Dunlop 8000 tires aren't state of the art anymore, they're still pretty good.
kkk93rex: fix your ABS. The car will stop shorter and more importantly - STRAIGHTER - with your ABS in almost any situation.
kkk93rex: fix your ABS. The car will stop shorter and more importantly - STRAIGHTER - with your ABS in almost any situation.
11-07-02, 08:11 PM
#11
lane_change: Why would you need to disable the abs for drag racing, last time at the track, i went full throttle all the way to the end and the stock braking system was engough for the car to come to a stop and make the turn and a safe and low speed, i hit the end of fouth gear at the end of the track(not the 1/4). I've never had the abs come on before, i had full hawk pads with ss brake lines and very with smooth braking it stops pretty well and fast. I would keep the abs intact also.
11-07-02, 08:36 PM
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Even with my ABS, I could make my tires SCREEEEEECH....
I could feel the pulsing from the abs thru the brake pedal, but I would still be screeching!!!...
After much debate, I found a Japanese article done by feed of Japan about removal of abs. They did some testing of cars with abs and LARGER AFTERMARKET RIMS AND TIRES, and cars without....and the cars without still had better brake times. BUT, if you have stock rims/tires then PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE YOUR ABS!!!! The abs system works flawlessly with the stockers...
I could feel the pulsing from the abs thru the brake pedal, but I would still be screeching!!!...
After much debate, I found a Japanese article done by feed of Japan about removal of abs. They did some testing of cars with abs and LARGER AFTERMARKET RIMS AND TIRES, and cars without....and the cars without still had better brake times. BUT, if you have stock rims/tires then PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE YOUR ABS!!!! The abs system works flawlessly with the stockers...
11-07-02, 08:38 PM
#14
My car seemed to want to push me sideways when the ABS would start pulsating when I forgot to undo the fuse onetime. The whole assend started to walk towards the wall real bad so I had to let out and just run cold. It never happened with the fuse out. So maybe it was a coincedence that the ABS fuse was in when it did it but I know I pull the fuse out when I race.
11-07-02, 11:11 PM
#16
Originally posted by lane_change
I have heard that with the factory wheels that ABS does indeed help stopping distance and time but with larger aftermarket wheels that you actually stop faster and shorter without ABS. I am still debating about removing mine. I do not Auto-X ever, just drag race and when I go drag racing I have to pull the ABS fuse out anyways. So I am really leaning towards removing mine. Jspecracer7 had good instructions on how to do it.
I have heard that with the factory wheels that ABS does indeed help stopping distance and time but with larger aftermarket wheels that you actually stop faster and shorter without ABS. I am still debating about removing mine. I do not Auto-X ever, just drag race and when I go drag racing I have to pull the ABS fuse out anyways. So I am really leaning towards removing mine. Jspecracer7 had good instructions on how to do it.
Have you ever tried doing a burnout with the ABS functioning? It works fine for me. Rev it up a little with the rear tires in the water (not in the puddle), dump the clutch, step on brake pedal (ABS functional) and the car will just sit there and spin the rear tires.
I've done it several times, works fine. I've also done it on a 300ZX with ABS, works fine. I've done it with AUTO FDs also, works fine.
As far as the car walking out on you during a run. Not related to ABS function in any way.
Explain what I'm missing.
Jeff
11-08-02, 12:11 AM
#18
As for braking performance with larger wheels and tires, it might be that different diameters front and rear confuse the ABS system causing a decrease in braking performance.
I like ABS mainly because it ensures you don't flat spot your tires and gives good stopping distances. I know everyone thinks they can stop faster without ABS, but I think few drivers are capable of such feats under any conditions that are less than ideal. Perhaps many good drivers can beat ABS in a straight line in the dry, but I bet the number drops quickly as the conditions get more complicated (turning, water, surface irregularities, etc.). The rest of us are probably better off with ABS. I try to stay out of the ABS on the track, but the FD system does seem to let you go right to the limit on dry pavement before it starts interfering most of the time. I know that I am at the limit when I feel it start to kick in.
For drag racing, I don't think the ABS has any value. It just adds weight. But the vast majority of cars are still used on the street where it makes sense to keep the ABS. In other words, the only conditions under which I would remove the ABS is if the car was drag-only.
ABS is usually not legal in professional road racing. I am pretty sure lap times would drop if it was made legal, and it would be a big advantage in the rain. ABS would allow the drivers to get maximum braking force from all four wheels. Without ABS, you have to let up when any of the wheels lock to avoid flat spots, which gives up braking force on the wheels that aren't locking.
ABS systems in production cars vary in design. The FD has a 3-channel system with independent channels for each front wheel and one shared channel for the rears. I think the WRX has a two channel system that shares a channel for each diagonal. Some ABS systems in pick-up trucks are for the rear tires only to provide safe braking when the bed is empty. The best systems have a channel for each wheel. I am sure there are other factors than the number of channels that determine effectiveness, but that is one seemingly important factor.
-Max
I like ABS mainly because it ensures you don't flat spot your tires and gives good stopping distances. I know everyone thinks they can stop faster without ABS, but I think few drivers are capable of such feats under any conditions that are less than ideal. Perhaps many good drivers can beat ABS in a straight line in the dry, but I bet the number drops quickly as the conditions get more complicated (turning, water, surface irregularities, etc.). The rest of us are probably better off with ABS. I try to stay out of the ABS on the track, but the FD system does seem to let you go right to the limit on dry pavement before it starts interfering most of the time. I know that I am at the limit when I feel it start to kick in.
For drag racing, I don't think the ABS has any value. It just adds weight. But the vast majority of cars are still used on the street where it makes sense to keep the ABS. In other words, the only conditions under which I would remove the ABS is if the car was drag-only.
ABS is usually not legal in professional road racing. I am pretty sure lap times would drop if it was made legal, and it would be a big advantage in the rain. ABS would allow the drivers to get maximum braking force from all four wheels. Without ABS, you have to let up when any of the wheels lock to avoid flat spots, which gives up braking force on the wheels that aren't locking.
ABS systems in production cars vary in design. The FD has a 3-channel system with independent channels for each front wheel and one shared channel for the rears. I think the WRX has a two channel system that shares a channel for each diagonal. Some ABS systems in pick-up trucks are for the rear tires only to provide safe braking when the bed is empty. The best systems have a channel for each wheel. I am sure there are other factors than the number of channels that determine effectiveness, but that is one seemingly important factor.
-Max
11-08-02, 12:45 AM
#20
John
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Originally posted by lane_change
I am just going by what I heard. But the one time I left it in, my car started to walk away on me. So I always made sure to pull it out before I lined up. Never tried again with the ABS fuse in. Who knows?
I am just going by what I heard. But the one time I left it in, my car started to walk away on me. So I always made sure to pull it out before I lined up. Never tried again with the ABS fuse in. Who knows?
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