13b cosmo
09-15-03, 10:03 PM
#1
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13b cosmo
does anyone here know if i can install a 13b cosmo intake manifold into my fd? i love the way it looks and i know it have bigger runners too. just wondering if anyone tried this.
09-15-03, 10:21 PM
#2
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I'm pretty sure that it does not bolt right up. You may wanna double check that, but I'm about 99% sure that it won't bolt up to the S6 engine without mods.
09-18-03, 06:54 AM
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It can be fit with some major modifications. It is closer to a 2nd generation with the motor mounts in the middle of the engine. The Cosmo 13B-RE is a cross between the 2nd gen and 3rd gen motors. It has less Hp (230) and the turbos are HT10 versus HT12. The 3rd Gen 13B-REW motor has motor mounts bolting through the oil pan and into the rear rotor housing.
I think there is a place in florida selling these motors and might have a conversion kit to mount into the FD.
Tim
I think there is a place in florida selling these motors and might have a conversion kit to mount into the FD.
Tim
09-18-03, 08:37 AM
#5
Originally posted by Tim McCreary
It can be fit with some major modifications. It is closer to a 2nd generation with the motor mounts in the middle of the engine. The Cosmo 13B-RE is a cross between the 2nd gen and 3rd gen motors. It has less Hp (230) and the turbos are HT10 versus HT12. The 3rd Gen 13B-REW motor has motor mounts bolting through the oil pan and into the rear rotor housing.
I think there is a place in florida selling these motors and might have a conversion kit to mount into the FD.
Tim
It can be fit with some major modifications. It is closer to a 2nd generation with the motor mounts in the middle of the engine. The Cosmo 13B-RE is a cross between the 2nd gen and 3rd gen motors. It has less Hp (230) and the turbos are HT10 versus HT12. The 3rd Gen 13B-REW motor has motor mounts bolting through the oil pan and into the rear rotor housing.
I think there is a place in florida selling these motors and might have a conversion kit to mount into the FD.
Tim
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01-10-04, 10:35 AM
#9
Originally posted by the_glass_man
Anyone know where we can find these things?
Anyone know where we can find these things?
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=254894
01-11-04, 03:34 AM
#10
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Ok I have sold these before.. and yes they are a HUGE upgrade over the stock manifolds. the RE ports are around 30% larger then the FD's. Only time i have ever sold on it was for a client that was using the engine for a carb set up so he didnt need the manifold. I sold it for 750 shipped. It is beautifull. i have mine powder coated gunmetal!!! SWEET BABY
Also for installing these engine in the fd chasis. It can be done but there is a few things you need to understand. First if you get an engine with a wiring harness and ecu you will need a S5 airflow meter and pressure sensor. Uses an afm not a map... which i actully like since it meters air not just run a map. Or you can swap the front cover and use your wirngharness. as for the mounts. they both mount on the rear plate. i have seen people tap in to the plate to make the stock fd mounts work... Also power is the same even though it is rated lower. Mazda did this since the 20b was 280 and the REW was 255 25 hp was not worth 10k. these do have slightly smaller turbos but much larger intakes and ports so they work them selvs out. also the cosmos had a very restrictive exhaust which lowered the output. Lastly These engine are used in every bad A$$ drag car in aus and a lot of big tuners in the states. the power out put is 10-15% more then the fd with correct tuning and porting at VERY high output(over 500).
Shane Smith
Owner RotaryWorks
Also for installing these engine in the fd chasis. It can be done but there is a few things you need to understand. First if you get an engine with a wiring harness and ecu you will need a S5 airflow meter and pressure sensor. Uses an afm not a map... which i actully like since it meters air not just run a map. Or you can swap the front cover and use your wirngharness. as for the mounts. they both mount on the rear plate. i have seen people tap in to the plate to make the stock fd mounts work... Also power is the same even though it is rated lower. Mazda did this since the 20b was 280 and the REW was 255 25 hp was not worth 10k. these do have slightly smaller turbos but much larger intakes and ports so they work them selvs out. also the cosmos had a very restrictive exhaust which lowered the output. Lastly These engine are used in every bad A$$ drag car in aus and a lot of big tuners in the states. the power out put is 10-15% more then the fd with correct tuning and porting at VERY high output(over 500).
Shane Smith
Owner RotaryWorks
01-11-04, 03:55 PM
#11
Senior Member
Just thought I would add that the series-5 (89-91) air flow meter makes the engine run rich. You really need the Cosmo one.
Here are the numbers for the air flow meters.
N340 = series-5 atmo
N370 = series-5 turbo
N390 = Cosmo 13B
NF01 = Cosmo 20B
Here in Oz, they are certainly a popular conversion as you indicate. Many guys want the Cosmo intake for there series-6 (92-95) & series-7 (96-98) RX-7s. They sell for hundreds of dollars at a time
Here are the numbers for the air flow meters.
N340 = series-5 atmo
N370 = series-5 turbo
N390 = Cosmo 13B
NF01 = Cosmo 20B
Here in Oz, they are certainly a popular conversion as you indicate. Many guys want the Cosmo intake for there series-6 (92-95) & series-7 (96-98) RX-7s. They sell for hundreds of dollars at a time
01-12-04, 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by DMRH
Just thought I would add that the series-5 (89-91) air flow meter makes the engine run rich. You really need the Cosmo one.
Here are the numbers for the air flow meters.
Just thought I would add that the series-5 (89-91) air flow meter makes the engine run rich. You really need the Cosmo one.
Here are the numbers for the air flow meters.
01-12-04, 02:48 PM
#13
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Just saw this post...I have first hand experience with the Cosmo 13B RE motor and intake. I have an RE in my third gen right now.
First, just swapping the intakes isn't going to work for one main reason: As jabba stated, the ports are about 30% larger. What that means is the runners on the intake manifold DO NOT line up with the ports on the stock FD. You would have to pull the motor apart and port the crap out of the primary and especially the secondary ports. The air would otherwise run into a "brick wall" and then into the port. It's called port reversion and it's not good.
The RE did make less hp but that's mostly due to tuning and turbo sizing/boost.
Once you port match everything, you will need a spacer to go between the stock FD throttle body and the mouth of the Cosmo intake manifold. This is for two reasons. First, there's an air bypass loop cut into the Cosmo's intake mouth. The stock FD throttle body doesn't seal it off. Second, the width of the manifold is shorter, by about an inch, so unless you want all-new, custom intercooler piping, do the spacer.
Then there's fuel. Stock primary rails work. Secondaries do not. K2RD has custom fuel rails for this application.
Lastly, the FD's manifold is a charge-pulse design. It does not rely on a plenium-style design like the Cosmo intake. I wouldn't second guess the engineers on this one...Despite the increased runner size, I'd go out on a limb and say that the FD manifold would make more hp UNLESS you're running very large ports and a monster turbo (like me!). The FD's manifold will simply be more efficient, have higher velocity (esp. in vacuum situations) and it's tuned. Hope this helps a bit!
First, just swapping the intakes isn't going to work for one main reason: As jabba stated, the ports are about 30% larger. What that means is the runners on the intake manifold DO NOT line up with the ports on the stock FD. You would have to pull the motor apart and port the crap out of the primary and especially the secondary ports. The air would otherwise run into a "brick wall" and then into the port. It's called port reversion and it's not good.
The RE did make less hp but that's mostly due to tuning and turbo sizing/boost.
Once you port match everything, you will need a spacer to go between the stock FD throttle body and the mouth of the Cosmo intake manifold. This is for two reasons. First, there's an air bypass loop cut into the Cosmo's intake mouth. The stock FD throttle body doesn't seal it off. Second, the width of the manifold is shorter, by about an inch, so unless you want all-new, custom intercooler piping, do the spacer.
Then there's fuel. Stock primary rails work. Secondaries do not. K2RD has custom fuel rails for this application.
Lastly, the FD's manifold is a charge-pulse design. It does not rely on a plenium-style design like the Cosmo intake. I wouldn't second guess the engineers on this one...Despite the increased runner size, I'd go out on a limb and say that the FD manifold would make more hp UNLESS you're running very large ports and a monster turbo (like me!). The FD's manifold will simply be more efficient, have higher velocity (esp. in vacuum situations) and it's tuned. Hope this helps a bit!
01-12-04, 05:59 PM
#14
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Originally posted by rx7tt95
Just saw this post...I have first hand experience with the Cosmo 13B RE motor and intake. I have an RE in my third gen right now.
First, just swapping the intakes isn't going to work for one main reason: As jabba stated, the ports are about 30% larger. What that means is the runners on the intake manifold DO NOT line up with the ports on the stock FD. You would have to pull the motor apart and port the crap out of the primary and especially the secondary ports. The air would otherwise run into a "brick wall" and then into the port. It's called port reversion and it's not good.
The RE did make less hp but that's mostly due to tuning and turbo sizing/boost.
Once you port match everything, you will need a spacer to go between the stock FD throttle body and the mouth of the Cosmo intake manifold. This is for two reasons. First, there's an air bypass loop cut into the Cosmo's intake mouth. The stock FD throttle body doesn't seal it off. Second, the width of the manifold is shorter, by about an inch, so unless you want all-new, custom intercooler piping, do the spacer.
Then there's fuel. Stock primary rails work. Secondaries do not. K2RD has custom fuel rails for this application.
Lastly, the FD's manifold is a charge-pulse design. It does not rely on a plenium-style design like the Cosmo intake. I wouldn't second guess the engineers on this one...Despite the increased runner size, I'd go out on a limb and say that the FD manifold would make more hp UNLESS you're running very large ports and a monster turbo (like me!). The FD's manifold will simply be more efficient, have higher velocity (esp. in vacuum situations) and it's tuned. Hope this helps a bit!
Just saw this post...I have first hand experience with the Cosmo 13B RE motor and intake. I have an RE in my third gen right now.
First, just swapping the intakes isn't going to work for one main reason: As jabba stated, the ports are about 30% larger. What that means is the runners on the intake manifold DO NOT line up with the ports on the stock FD. You would have to pull the motor apart and port the crap out of the primary and especially the secondary ports. The air would otherwise run into a "brick wall" and then into the port. It's called port reversion and it's not good.
The RE did make less hp but that's mostly due to tuning and turbo sizing/boost.
Once you port match everything, you will need a spacer to go between the stock FD throttle body and the mouth of the Cosmo intake manifold. This is for two reasons. First, there's an air bypass loop cut into the Cosmo's intake mouth. The stock FD throttle body doesn't seal it off. Second, the width of the manifold is shorter, by about an inch, so unless you want all-new, custom intercooler piping, do the spacer.
Then there's fuel. Stock primary rails work. Secondaries do not. K2RD has custom fuel rails for this application.
Lastly, the FD's manifold is a charge-pulse design. It does not rely on a plenium-style design like the Cosmo intake. I wouldn't second guess the engineers on this one...Despite the increased runner size, I'd go out on a limb and say that the FD manifold would make more hp UNLESS you're running very large ports and a monster turbo (like me!). The FD's manifold will simply be more efficient, have higher velocity (esp. in vacuum situations) and it's tuned. Hope this helps a bit!
would you car to compare the cosmo 20bTT to the cosmo 13btt, and FD 13btt. im wondering about flow charachteristics (in comparison to the 13b cosmo, and 13b FD motors)... an any other "interesting" or usefull info you have comparing the 20b to the other motors. cheers! heath(PS sorry i didnt start a thread in the 20b section... just wondering how everything compares)
01-12-04, 07:02 PM
#17
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The 2 hardest things to do are: Throttle cable and TPS. Everything else is pretty much cake.
You'll need these parts:
1. Cosmo 13B LIM
2. Cosmo 13B UIM
3. Cosmo 20B throttle body
4. Cosmo 13B aluminum elbow
5. Cosmo 13B LIM/Engine gasket
6. Cosmo 13B LIM/UIM gasket
7. Cosmo 13B UIM/throttle body gasket
You'll need to port match your 13B-rew engine to the cosmo 13b intake runner size since they're quite different....that is unless you want to makes LESS HP
Reasons for the 20B throttle body?
1. 13B-rew throttle body bolts up to the cosmo intake...but isn't shaped the same. The cosmo has a small lip on the bottom(appx. 2 to 3mm) that will allow air to bypass the throttle body and allows air to seep thru.
2. Cosmo 20B is 2mm bigger than stock FD.
3. Cosmo 13B UIM does not have a idle control valve built in like the 13B-rew UIM. The 20B throttle body has one.
4. Cosmo 20B is about 1 to 2 cm longer than the stock FD throttle body. Since the cosmo 13B UIM is shorter than the FD UIM, the 20B throttle body being longer allows the throttle body elbow to clear the oil filler neck.
Basically in a nutshell, you'll need to figure out your fuel needs and how to run your throttle body cable.
You'll need to redo intercooler piping since when I did mine....absolutely NOTHING matched up.
You'll need to swap pins 2 and 4 on the stock FD TPS plug. The FD is a 0 volts to 5 volts TPS. The Cosmo 20B is a 5 volts to 0 volts. Swap pins 2 and 4 and you now have a cosmo 20B with a 0 to 5 volts TPS.
I tried to mix and match FD and cosmo parts...and nothing worked out right. If you do this...just use the Cosmo stuff. Trying to make an FD throttle body work on a cosmo 13B UIM was a PITA for me. I didn't have the time or the resources to make an adapter like Michel did. My conversion was the "poor man's" conversion. In hindsight....knowing what I know now...I could probably do the conversion in about the same time it takes to remove the stock FD intake manifolds.
Also, Please don't PM me guys. Post your questions on this thread so I can answer them all at once and not individually.
You'll need these parts:
1. Cosmo 13B LIM
2. Cosmo 13B UIM
3. Cosmo 20B throttle body
4. Cosmo 13B aluminum elbow
5. Cosmo 13B LIM/Engine gasket
6. Cosmo 13B LIM/UIM gasket
7. Cosmo 13B UIM/throttle body gasket
You'll need to port match your 13B-rew engine to the cosmo 13b intake runner size since they're quite different....that is unless you want to makes LESS HP
Reasons for the 20B throttle body?
1. 13B-rew throttle body bolts up to the cosmo intake...but isn't shaped the same. The cosmo has a small lip on the bottom(appx. 2 to 3mm) that will allow air to bypass the throttle body and allows air to seep thru.
2. Cosmo 20B is 2mm bigger than stock FD.
3. Cosmo 13B UIM does not have a idle control valve built in like the 13B-rew UIM. The 20B throttle body has one.
4. Cosmo 20B is about 1 to 2 cm longer than the stock FD throttle body. Since the cosmo 13B UIM is shorter than the FD UIM, the 20B throttle body being longer allows the throttle body elbow to clear the oil filler neck.
Basically in a nutshell, you'll need to figure out your fuel needs and how to run your throttle body cable.
You'll need to redo intercooler piping since when I did mine....absolutely NOTHING matched up.
You'll need to swap pins 2 and 4 on the stock FD TPS plug. The FD is a 0 volts to 5 volts TPS. The Cosmo 20B is a 5 volts to 0 volts. Swap pins 2 and 4 and you now have a cosmo 20B with a 0 to 5 volts TPS.
I tried to mix and match FD and cosmo parts...and nothing worked out right. If you do this...just use the Cosmo stuff. Trying to make an FD throttle body work on a cosmo 13B UIM was a PITA for me. I didn't have the time or the resources to make an adapter like Michel did. My conversion was the "poor man's" conversion. In hindsight....knowing what I know now...I could probably do the conversion in about the same time it takes to remove the stock FD intake manifolds.
Also, Please don't PM me guys. Post your questions on this thread so I can answer them all at once and not individually.
01-12-04, 07:05 PM
#18
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Originally posted by sub9lulu
do the write-up
i wanna have it on my 2nd gen since the 3rd gen intake manifold can mate up with lil mod
do the write-up
i wanna have it on my 2nd gen since the 3rd gen intake manifold can mate up with lil mod
01-12-04, 08:12 PM
#19
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Originally posted by jspecracer7
.....You'll need to port match your 13B-rew engine to the cosmo 13b intake runner size since they're quite different....that is unless you want to makes LESS HP ....
.....You'll need to port match your 13B-rew engine to the cosmo 13b intake runner size since they're quite different....that is unless you want to makes LESS HP
....
Also, can the REW stock twins be installed with the Cosmo LIM?
01-12-04, 08:23 PM
#20
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Originally posted by Flybye
So the REW plates actually have enough room to remove the material needed to be able to have the intakes as big as the Cosmo LIM?
Also, can the REW stock twins be installed with the Cosmo LIM?
So the REW plates actually have enough room to remove the material needed to be able to have the intakes as big as the Cosmo LIM?
Also, can the REW stock twins be installed with the Cosmo LIM?
I'm almost certain that the REW twins can fit since the cosmo uses almost the exact same size manifold/twins.
01-12-04, 11:58 PM
#22
fart on a friends head!!!
jspec. . . what do you think this would do to an fd w/an xs to4e kit? . . . should i just back off and wait or go ahead and do it. . . i really dig this idea.
paul
paul
01-13-04, 12:43 AM
#23
Senior Member
Originally posted by Flybye
So the REW plates actually have enough room to remove the material needed to be able to have the intakes as big as the Cosmo LIM?
Also, can the REW stock twins be installed with the Cosmo LIM?
So the REW plates actually have enough room to remove the material needed to be able to have the intakes as big as the Cosmo LIM?
Also, can the REW stock twins be installed with the Cosmo LIM?
Both engines are officially a 13B-REW as they are both "double turbo" which is where the REW came from
They are simply the JC 13B-REW & FD 13B-REW
01-13-04, 01:12 AM
#24
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Originally posted by sub9lulu
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hlight=uim+lim
ok ... 3rd gen UIM only ... stuff in complete cosmo engine might be easier ??
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hlight=uim+lim
ok ... 3rd gen UIM only ... stuff in complete cosmo engine might be easier ??
01-13-04, 01:16 AM
#25
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Originally posted by rotorbrain
jspec. . . what do you think this would do to an fd w/an xs to4e kit? . . . should i just back off and wait or go ahead and do it. . . i really dig this idea.
paul
jspec. . . what do you think this would do to an fd w/an xs to4e kit? . . . should i just back off and wait or go ahead and do it. . . i really dig this idea.
paul