Neither did I, and my old car with open headers was enough to shake a picture frame off of my living room wall.

By the way, you may want to consider an X-pipe

 

Where have you been, under a rock?

GM revised the firing order of the small block when they designed the LS1. They don't sound like "old school" small blocks, but they have an angry, crisp roar at WOT. My Z06 sounded incredible through the Borla XR Stinger exhaust. I'm wonderng if I'm going to like hearing my LT1 through a Racing Beat twin tip.

Brian, do you have any pictures with more detail of the exhaust system? Preferably ones that someone hasn't resized or saved at maximum compression?

You can send them to me at jimlab@earthlink.net. I'd just like to see how you ran the driver's side exhaust. I'm still trying to figure out how to run long tubes on my car without giving up any ground clearance.

 

Sorry. I haven't had any desires lately to througly look into the firing orders of GM's new blocks

 

Don't you think utilizing frame clearance plumping might help you in clearing the Tranny and possibly giving you a little bit more flexibility with the exhaust routing?

I mean damn. You got some nasty angles there trying to clear the tranny

 

Where do you get those ground clearing pipes?

 

www.drgas.com

 

Flybe - The pictures you posted look exactly like what we made for more clearance around the transmission.

Some of the angles for the rest of the system are a little more severe than I would like, but I will replace them with mandrel bent pieces to make the setup "perfect." The new setup will be installed on all our turn-key cars.

We are installing a "H" pipe shortly. The new videos to be posted shortly will be with mufflers only and w/o the Hpipe.

FWIW, the previous posters were correct about the volume of the car. It was 6am on a Sunday morning in a quiet neighborhood, so I was definitely easy on the gas.

Jim - You have mail.

 

With the location of the exhaust pipes, don't you think an X pipe would be easier to install?

 

You keep saying the same thing over and over and over again... where did you get that he is blasting rotaries? I don't recall reading Bryan's posts saying that rotaries are POS, or anything even close to that.

You also keep stating that he needs to have a proven, tested prototype. The point of this thread is for him to update us on the progress of his hybrid. He seems to be working very hard and quickly to get this car ironed out and present us with actual data. Like he just posted the weight distribution data, and his bump steer correction. I'm sure when he gets dyno results, and gets in some track and AutoX runs, he'll post those results too.

You need to keep an open mind. The price list for the conversion on the website is $9000 + engine/trans. Obviously there is going to be a few extra hidden costs, like shipping and maybe a few miscellaneous other things... I think everyone understands that. You just seem to keep bringing up the price issue. The info is on the website; check it out and do your own calculations.

Hopefully, if everything goes as plans, I'll be stopping by Hinson Supercars this Friday, because I am passing through Tuscaloosa on my trip back to PA for Christmas. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Paul

 

I dont know where you got that idea from? I'd say you prob dont know much about me or my knowledge of rotary. If I blow my engine up I rebuild it myself making it more cost effective for me to stay with rotary. I can replace NUMEROUS engines for $15+ grand.....not that I plan to, I'd just rather learn how to tune.

My only concern for the most part has been how you guys keep saying 400hp, which all I've seen in the pricing everyone refers to is around 340 at the FLYWHEEL which to be honest with you isnt much for that kind of money. EVERYONE on this board speaks of hp in term of RWhp not flywheel so you need to clarify that with people if your not speaking of rwhp. Also, since you guys keep talking about 400hp LS1's maybe when you tell everyone the pricing you should include the cost for the extra power of the 400hp version OR start saying its a 340FLYWHEEL hp LS1 for X amount of money. I know you quote the pricing as $9000 + engine and trans but most of the rotary guys around here dont know exactly what all it take in terms of parts or money to get a bone stock LS1 up to 400hp like the one your guys apparently have. How much are we looking at by the time you add the mods to get 400hp and is that at the wheels or flywheel? Would $17K cover it???

To be quite honest I think you guys did this conversion cause you didnt know how to tune a high hp rotary and kept blowing it up, since you know LS1's so well you just decided to go with what you are familiar with.....Of course just like you, I could be wrong about that, but from your posts regaurding your toughts on the rotary I dont think I am.

Also, I'm not argueing over the car itself....just the way its being presented. I'm sure you guys have done a fine job installing it and I know it must have been a TON of work. I just cant see it being presented as Gods gift to RX7's, all I see it giving is added reliability (how much no one knows for sure yet) at a very expensive price tag.

STEPHEN

 

We purposely left the LS1 modification pricing off of the website because there are so many possible ways to make big power with the LS1. The same is true with the 13B as far as what turbo setup, intercooler, etc...

Our increase in HP was done for an investment of less than $1,000. That small investment will yield an est. 365rwhp NA(400+flywheel HP) with a great setup to run nitrous for track use. An additional $2,500 spent on a good head porting job and hi-flow headers will easily put your over the 400rwhp mark with many LS1 owners laying down consistent 425-435rwhp/415rwtq dyno pulls. With the upgraded fuel system we install, an addition of 175HP(350lb-ft) through nitrous is easily and safely used to push the LS1 to the sound of 550-600rwhp on the stock bottom.

Our setup could be duplicated with us doing the work for just less than the $17K mark you mentioned. As with the rotary, the boundries of power are up the thickness of a wallet, so we're discussing this with each customer on a one to one basis.

HinsonSuperCars.com purchased this first RX7 with the sole purpose of installing an awesome and light weight LS1 in to it. It was an engine that we were familiar with, and it was decided that this would happen long before the car was ever purchased. I spent over 5 months looking for this specific car that would be perfect for the swap. This completed project has been the reality of a dream to install a powerful engine of my choice in to a great car.

For the individual that installs a stock LS1, the gains stock for "stock"(LS1) will be substantial and complement the added reliability. A 100HP gain with a much wider powerband and improved fuel economy is nothing to shrug off. However, the full potential of the swap is shown when the LS1/6 is modified to perform at higher levels commonly found in Fbody cars or Corvettes. At these financially easily attainable levels, the combination of a great car and a great engine will truly shine.

STEPHEN: PM'd you.

 

need convincing ionwhy to purchase a v8:

http://www.ls1motorsports.com/
http://www.ls1motorsports.com/Single_Turbo.htm

and check out ebaymotorsport.com on how cheap some of the ls1 and t56 combos are in comparison to a fd motor with all the bells and whistles (turbo, trans, ecu, etc.)

i brought my car because of the rotary motor, but i cannot deny what i am seeing through a little homework. on the first site the guys car weights 1000 lbs more than our fd and is running 9 sec. i didn't read it all but even if that is with nos, i'd take it. and a turbo option is available for those who have to have boost. this is an option for those who just want to go fast and semi-reliable (keep in mind th more you do the less reliable it becomes and the shorter the life of a motor will be-fact).

luigi

 

You can get similarly priced turbo kits for a FD. There are other things you'll need besides a turbo kit to run 9's. As a matter of fact they have a listing of it here....
http://www.ls1motorsports.com/Project-Camaro.asp

Making the HP is just the begining. There are street driven RX7's running similar times. Steve Kan's car was a daily driver for years without engine problems. As a matter of fact he ran a 10.1 while letting off to stay out of the 9's....he doesnt have a NHRA drag license which is required to run 9's withouth getting booted off the track.

I think some of you guys need to hang out in our Single turbo and rotary perfomance board more and go buy a wideband.

So to me when you show me a link that like that, I think you have this feeling that when you do a LS1 swap your almost ready for 9's. All, I'm doing is just trying to make sure everyone knows its not all that easy.....if it was I'm sure every T/A and SS in the country would be running 9's. There is A LOT more to it.

Also, I'd imagine when your looking at prices on Ebay your comparing used engine/tran to new or rebuilt prices for Rotary....not quite a fair playing field in my opinion, especially since on Ebay you really have NO idea what your getting.

STEPHEN

 

The v-8 on the other hand is running has a HUGE margin of safety at 350hp. They put these LS1 engines in tournament ski boats and run them hard as hell.

yeah, and they rebuild them constantly, too, which is why more speed boats are going to turbine engines....buddy of mine here in Charlotte builds them http://n2speedturbineboats.com/

a turbine engine will last an entire season, while big block Chevy engines last ONE race, maybe two, before they need to be torn down and rebuilt....they lose compression pretty quick under that kind of stress

I know it's basically unrelated to this thread, and turbine engines have little in common with a rotary engine, aside from the obvious, but it serves to show that piston engines have an inherent design limitation: namely the inefficiency of converting vertical piston movement into rotational energy, especially at high rpm (although the low rpm torque is tough to beat)

bottom line is there is always a better way when it comes to application of mechanical engineering, and no one has all the answers

but LS1 Rx-7s are still cool in my book

 

That may be, I never saw on thier site where it said that. I knew the car was a fire victom but didnt realize he bought it like that. i though he owned it prior.

If this i the case Brian where did you guys learn so much about rotaries?

There is a HUGE difference in knowing the the powerplant and adding mods without knowing how to properly tune....which is what most people on this board do....myself included untill I bought a wideband and starting researching to find what I was doing wrong.

I dont know one single person that lost thier motor to a bad tank of gas. If someone has acutually said that I'd have to imagine they were speculating and didnt fully research thier problems....which would prob cause them to blow another engine later.


Tell that to the guys driving around with 500rwhp+ everyday. They will probably tell you the guys blowing up with 350rwhp need to learn how to tune.

If you think your going to get a carb approved emissions complient LS1 to make a ton of power well you better be putting that GM factory exhaust back on it is all i have to say.

If thats the case why not keep the LS1 in a big car, yea yea, I know what your saying. I just had to throw that in there lol

Anyway, it I'm sure some people love the idea....more power to them. They can sell me thier engine real cheap when its done.

 

V8 Lover
- I noticed you have the stock front end, the little triangular indentation in the middle of the lower lip is to represent the rotor powered engine...any plans to remove/modify the identifier???

Maybe some sort of V8 badge...

Just an idea for ALL people with RX-7's not powered by the 13B or 20B or any other rotary engine (with the stock front end).

 

the point is, running an engine "hard as hell" doesn't mean anything....

it's all relative....your almighty and beloved little LSI won't last long under the the right conditions (as much as I like big V-8s)....piston engines don't last long under marine racing conditions (or drag racing conditions for that matter) even with a exotic materials ...the street is a different story of course

is the rotary engine inherently more reliable than a piston engine, without the turbo BS? I believe it is, a simpler design that is sound from an engineering viewpoint is always better, and the large number of non turbo rotaries with 200k plus miles attest to this....unfortunately, the current Mazda engine just doesn't have the displacement to crank out serious horsepower naturally aspirated, so, according to you, it is "highly stressed"....and under high turbo boost pressure you would be right, but let's compare apples to apples here

 

yzf-

thats exactly my point for people trying to obtain high hp and want it to remain reliable it won't happen in a turbo charged rotary (and no 3rd gen owner wants to part with his turbo because its what gets him that hp range). it just wont happen and the v8 solution for most people will probably work best.

i really didn't want to enter this thread (i am far from a rotary expert or a v8 expert) and i don't claim to know anything mechanical, but you are dropping a 345 hp motor compared to a 255 hp motor turbo charged. it only seemed logical to me and this is the only reason for bringing up those links (in my defense). could you imaginge if you spent a little more on a ls1 motor in upgrades and with the lightness of our cars. result bullish racing solara, turbonetics celica, bad boys from ny toyota thundra, and **** it the cavalier and sunfires (this only applies to drag racers).

and guys on the twistes being able to maintain weight and balance of the car without turbo lag. i think the argument is really about adding another engine in a different car and not what it shold be....

luigi

 

Does this extender piece actually work?

Something isn't right with this extender: more slop ... also the ball joint will have a greater moment arm due to the extender...

 

hmmm...first ten grand...then twelve grand...then fifteen grand...NOW SEVENTEEN GRAND.

LMAO

j

PS...you guys have been talking flywheel hp....salesmen...I tell ya.


wtf

 

I think a fair comparison to the cost and power aspects of the Lt1 conversion has not been done yet. That is to compare the LT1 to the 20B. I like many other FD owners love the Corvette. However it has become a big heavy Chevy. If I would have never taken a test drive in my now 93 R1 I would be a Vett owner today. After a hour and a half test drive with the salesman begging to be dropped off at the curb more then once I was forever converted to the religion of the rotary powered lightweight RX-7. Within a short time the need for speed addiction had hit. I did a few of the popular upgrades (3" exhaust, short shifter, Centerforce clutch) before I popped an apex seal. Within a month I had found a deal on a 20B and convinced myself I could do the job much cheaper then the $35,000 Pettit wanted to do the job. After months of research I learned different. If you could have the benefits of the well engineered and beautiful styling of the RX-7 with the reliability of 400 to 600 HP LT1 V8 it seems to me to be the best of both worlds. I would no longer be at the mercy of the limited number of rotary shops and yet could now go back to calling my little revin 7 a daily driver once again. This transformation from a 13BREW to a LT1 should only really be compared to a 20B conversion. Only then can you apriciate the cost savings and still have same reliable power output by comparing big motors that are not breathing to their fullest potential and that is where you get reliability folks. Just my $.02.

Steve

 

The bump steer correction works perfectly to eliminate the minor bump steer we encountered when lowering the PS rack. The "extender" you mentioned is how you correct for bump steer.

Baer Brakes Inc. utilizes a similar design for those interested in yet another proven solution.

http://www.baer.com/Showcase/BaerTracker.aspx

 

Please dont fool yourselves by thinking that any of the factory engines that have been talked about will be as reliable if the power output is increased to the 400 plus level. Simply put, the LS1 will be more reliable than the rotary, how much? Who knows,but I can always find a lot more blown and burned FD,s on ebay than I can 98 up Fbodies. Any time you increaes the power output on a factory designed engine you will decrease reliability. The factory designs and tests parts for a certain power level and reliability, and because they are in business to make money they usually dont leave a huge safety margin. Why dont you think Mazda didnt make the rotary 450 hp? Because it isnt very reliable at that power level and engineering platform. Same with the LS1, sure it can produce lots of power, but reliability, driveability and fuel mileage will suffer.
Now you will say , upgrade the internals, heads valvetrain and all to get a reliable 600 hp. Many of the parts that you will choose for the buildup will be strong components, but they usually will not have the 100,000 mile checker cab reliability built in. Companies who build these parts usually dont care about that aspect. These are parts that are built to be Magnus Samuelson of the engine world , Strong like bull but not marathon ready. The same goes for the rotary, it's all give and take.
as for the reliability of a stock LS1 vs the stock 13brew there is really no comparison, I think we can all agree that an LS1 is a tad more reliable than the rotary, not that the rotary cant quite a while and thwe LS1 cant blow up quick. This is a swap that will change the feel of the car, regardless of what people say, and like everything else it has it's up and down sides. It is up to you to make the logical choice and decision.

 

You can put the heads and intake on a LT1 from a LS6 and an after market cam and have a 450 HP motor that you could use and abuse for well over 100,000 miles in a car that only weights 2800 lbs and 4.10 gears. With that you get a flat torque curve that gives immediate power on demand with the touch of a peddle without having to drop it 2 gears. This baby is the screamer I've only dreamed about. I wonder if there's room for a vortex supercharger, if so 500+ reliable HP is certainly obtainable.

Steve

 

If you can fit LS6 heads on an LT1 it's news to me. It's my understanding that the bolt patterns are different, so I wouldn't think you could make that work.

There are plenty of aftermarket heads for the LT1 that will flow just as well as the stock LS6. Check out some of the AFR heads:

http://www.airflowresearch.com/

450HP from an LT1 should be relatively easy but will still cost $$$. And I don;t think there's room for a supercharger under the stock hood. If you've seen the engine bay for some of the conversions there's not a whole lot of space left. Maybe if you cut out AC and PS you could fit it, but I don't know where.