1,500 miles on my LS1 powered '93 RX7
nice work brian. i like my rotary engine, but if handling remains unaffected i think a ls1 fd would be one hell of a car. torque, broad powerband, gas mileage, reliability ,emissions, single turbo hp #'s on pump gas
-these are good things, right?
-these are good things, right?
Originally posted by jimlab
There are plenty of people out there with blown engines who'd be more than happy to buy someone's healthy engine, defraying some of the conversion cost. If you have $5-10k in rotary-specific modifications, there are plenty of people who'd be more than happy to take them off your hands... further defraying the cost of the conversion. It is conceivable that someone fed up with the rotary who had a lot of choice aftermarket parts could sell all of their equipment and easily pay for a large part (if not all) of the conversion costs.
But what you're really missing is the power potential of the converted car. The stock LS1 is only the beginning. Even in stock form, the LS1 engine will make 320-340+ horsepower, without a single modification. A stock F-body LS1 in a car with the weight of an RX-7 is probably a low-mid 12-second car on street tires with a decent driver, but you haven't even begun to tap its full potential yet.
Spend $1,500-2,000 on a set of LS6 heads, an LS6 intake (assuming you didn't get a 2001-2002 LS1) and an LS6 cam, and not only could you pass emissions, but you'll be making 420+ horsepower. How hard do you have to push a stock twin turbo rotary to make 360 RWHP? Too hard, in my opinion, and reliability isn't even comparable.
Want even more power from your LS1? Port the heads and get a bigger cam. Pushing 400+ RWHP with the LS1 isn't a problem or even very expensive when compared to what 400+ RWHP would cost you with a rotary powerplant. A decent single turbo kit alone would likely cost as much as the modifications for the LS1. If not, the engine management and fuel upgrades required would more than cover it.
Hopefully you're starting to get the picture. I think many people only see the performance potential of a stock LS1 conversion as an end result. What they should really be looking at is the power potential of the new powerplant after the basic conversion is finished. The LS1 is an excellent platform to build on, and you can easily and cheaply make a lot more horsepower once you've got one in your car.
There are plenty of people out there with blown engines who'd be more than happy to buy someone's healthy engine, defraying some of the conversion cost. If you have $5-10k in rotary-specific modifications, there are plenty of people who'd be more than happy to take them off your hands... further defraying the cost of the conversion. It is conceivable that someone fed up with the rotary who had a lot of choice aftermarket parts could sell all of their equipment and easily pay for a large part (if not all) of the conversion costs.
But what you're really missing is the power potential of the converted car. The stock LS1 is only the beginning. Even in stock form, the LS1 engine will make 320-340+ horsepower, without a single modification. A stock F-body LS1 in a car with the weight of an RX-7 is probably a low-mid 12-second car on street tires with a decent driver, but you haven't even begun to tap its full potential yet.
Spend $1,500-2,000 on a set of LS6 heads, an LS6 intake (assuming you didn't get a 2001-2002 LS1) and an LS6 cam, and not only could you pass emissions, but you'll be making 420+ horsepower. How hard do you have to push a stock twin turbo rotary to make 360 RWHP? Too hard, in my opinion, and reliability isn't even comparable.
Want even more power from your LS1? Port the heads and get a bigger cam. Pushing 400+ RWHP with the LS1 isn't a problem or even very expensive when compared to what 400+ RWHP would cost you with a rotary powerplant. A decent single turbo kit alone would likely cost as much as the modifications for the LS1. If not, the engine management and fuel upgrades required would more than cover it.
Hopefully you're starting to get the picture. I think many people only see the performance potential of a stock LS1 conversion as an end result. What they should really be looking at is the power potential of the new powerplant after the basic conversion is finished. The LS1 is an excellent platform to build on, and you can easily and cheaply make a lot more horsepower once you've got one in your car.
You are doomed to this endless cycle-as we have seen with your project!
Take heed in Jim's purgatory thy V-8 disciples!!
Rotary Freak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,668
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From: Hattiesburg, MS
Anthony up in NY had his car burn to the groud and he didn't have to put a LS1 in it.....what does the fact that it cought on fire have to do with installing a LS1?
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: SJ, CA
BTW- Was this car heavily moded or what when you guys decided to do this? Was it done mostly cause you couldnt find a good tuner, ect for the car???
If you would read your own posts you might be able to keep up with yourself.
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From: HinsonSuperCars.com
Re: Re: I just can't argue with you guys.
Originally posted by SPOautos
To be honest I havent seen all that many facts to support that the money is better spent on a LS1 versus just modding the rotary. I'm not trying to agrue, as I've stated numberous times it doesnt hurt my feeling that someone wants to drop a V8 in thier car, its fine with me cause I didnt buy there car. You'r trying to sell it as being superior so I'm just trying to weight all the advantages with the cost to see if it is truely superior. I'm not considering it but I think this info is good for the thread. I'm going to finish up with my car and hopefully will be done tuning in about 2 weeks. I really do what to head out that way and check out the car. We can do some friendly comparing
To be honest I havent seen all that many facts to support that the money is better spent on a LS1 versus just modding the rotary. I'm not trying to agrue, as I've stated numberous times it doesnt hurt my feeling that someone wants to drop a V8 in thier car, its fine with me cause I didnt buy there car. You'r trying to sell it as being superior so I'm just trying to weight all the advantages with the cost to see if it is truely superior. I'm not considering it but I think this info is good for the thread. I'm going to finish up with my car and hopefully will be done tuning in about 2 weeks. I really do what to head out that way and check out the car. We can do some friendly comparing
I don't expect many of the new and younger gearheads to understand that this swap wasn't done to show that the LS1 is better than the rotary. Due to the nature of this board, it is highly likely that most of the negative posts in this thread were made by people still in or just out of high school. Jim was correct in stating that the idea of this swap isn't to put a stock LS1 in the car and call it quits. Although the performance of a stock LS1 in a FD will outperform the vast majority of FD RX7s, the true performance comes when the LS1 is allowed to breathe with better heads and a more aggressive cam. Nevermind actually adding a power adder such as a supercharger or nitrous. A stock LS1 is only the beginning.
It is clear that many of you could and will be happy blowing up a couple more rotary motors before equaling the cost of a strong LS1 conversion. However, there are many RX7 owners who are tired of the troublesome rotary motor and are looking for a stronger and more reliable engine solution. This is where we stepped up to meet the demand.
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From: HinsonSuperCars.com
Handling and Weight
Many of the critics have made comments to the effect of "You've destroyed the handling!" or "Way to add so much extra weight!"
Well, the bump steer correction has been installed and the car handles like a dream. There are no alignment problems with the car, and to our future customers, I can now say without a doubt that the handling will not be affected.
The car was weighed over the past weekend with a 1/4 tank of gas in the car. The car maintains a stock Touring leather interior with complete BOSE sound system including the Acoustic Wave system in the trunk. The results are below:
LF = 746 RF = 677 Total Front: 1423
LR = 675 RR = 733 Total Rear: 1408
The total weight for the car is 2,831lbs.
The stock 50/50 weight distribution has been maintained, and with a full tank of gas, the car would be a 49/51 F/R ratio.
For those who were concerned about the balance of the car, you can see that the car's balance has not been altered, and in reality, the car's balance has actually been improved by putting more of the vehicle weight over the rear tires with a full tank of gas.
The website will be updated by Wednesday with more pictures of the conversion components, a picture of the car on the scales, and the weight specifications.
Well, the bump steer correction has been installed and the car handles like a dream. There are no alignment problems with the car, and to our future customers, I can now say without a doubt that the handling will not be affected.
The car was weighed over the past weekend with a 1/4 tank of gas in the car. The car maintains a stock Touring leather interior with complete BOSE sound system including the Acoustic Wave system in the trunk. The results are below:
LF = 746 RF = 677 Total Front: 1423
LR = 675 RR = 733 Total Rear: 1408
The total weight for the car is 2,831lbs.
The stock 50/50 weight distribution has been maintained, and with a full tank of gas, the car would be a 49/51 F/R ratio.
For those who were concerned about the balance of the car, you can see that the car's balance has not been altered, and in reality, the car's balance has actually been improved by putting more of the vehicle weight over the rear tires with a full tank of gas.
The website will be updated by Wednesday with more pictures of the conversion components, a picture of the car on the scales, and the weight specifications.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 18
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From: SoCali
Forgive me if this has been addressed already......
Is this kit a simple (!) bolt-in into the engine compartment?
I am concerned about some of the aspects of swap sub frames arised in jimlabs thread about Granny's kit requiring an FC manual steering rack.
SF
Is this kit a simple (!) bolt-in into the engine compartment?
I am concerned about some of the aspects of swap sub frames arised in jimlabs thread about Granny's kit requiring an FC manual steering rack.
SF
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Everywhere!
Speedious, yes.
For all intensive purposes, yes, this is a bolt-in swap.
Hinson Super Cars will provide you with EVERYTHING you need to put the LS1 in the car!
There is NO LONGER a need for Grant's parts!
I repeat, Hinson Supercars has sold me EVERYTHING I need to put an LS1 into my 7!!!!
Hinson Super Cars will provide you with EVERYTHING you need to put the LS1 in the car!
There is NO LONGER a need for Grant's parts!
I repeat, Hinson Supercars has sold me EVERYTHING I need to put an LS1 into my 7!!!!
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 18
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From: SoCali
Good to hear.
So, there is no change in the steering system or suspension with this kit?
I am concerned about the bump steep problems described about the Grannys and any adverse effects on the cars so sweet suspension and steering setup.
SF
So, there is no change in the steering system or suspension with this kit?
I am concerned about the bump steep problems described about the Grannys and any adverse effects on the cars so sweet suspension and steering setup.
SF
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,298
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From: Tejas
hey etraylor...lets see some pics of your seven and the stuff they sold you!
LMAO
yer quite a salesman...
anyhow...doubts aside...I want to know something...
you are ranting about the chevy motor as a great starting place...first though, early on, you all spoke of affordability and being smart about not spending money on continued blown rotaries....now you go to the "its a good starting point" idea...which is it...something you do to save money and headaches in the long run or something that will continue to drain the bank even years after it is started?
for the base swap people are looking at close to twenty grand....now if they were to go with all the upgrades you speak of...that would push them up another ten grand or more...am i right?
so basically...if someone wants a killer vette motor in their seven its gonna cost them close to or more than 30000 dollars. Not to mention the things you havent spoken of....axels...gears...and the rest that will constantly need to be changed out with a car pushing that kind of power.
I support your venture...I really do. I think the car that your friend is building will be rad...I hope he finishes it and proves us wrong...proves that there is a reliable and strong performing alternative to what is currently there.....however it sort of annoys me that you all are on here slamming the rotary and the seven...and yet you dont have a prototype that is successful and proven.
all Im sayin is...put yer munny where your mouth is...yer close I bet...but I think the skeptics are all wanting to see a successful prototype and that first happy customer.
when I see that Ill bow in respect.
til then, Im a doubting thomas.
jason
LMAO
yer quite a salesman...
anyhow...doubts aside...I want to know something...
you are ranting about the chevy motor as a great starting place...first though, early on, you all spoke of affordability and being smart about not spending money on continued blown rotaries....now you go to the "its a good starting point" idea...which is it...something you do to save money and headaches in the long run or something that will continue to drain the bank even years after it is started?
for the base swap people are looking at close to twenty grand....now if they were to go with all the upgrades you speak of...that would push them up another ten grand or more...am i right?
so basically...if someone wants a killer vette motor in their seven its gonna cost them close to or more than 30000 dollars. Not to mention the things you havent spoken of....axels...gears...and the rest that will constantly need to be changed out with a car pushing that kind of power.
I support your venture...I really do. I think the car that your friend is building will be rad...I hope he finishes it and proves us wrong...proves that there is a reliable and strong performing alternative to what is currently there.....however it sort of annoys me that you all are on here slamming the rotary and the seven...and yet you dont have a prototype that is successful and proven.
all Im sayin is...put yer munny where your mouth is...yer close I bet...but I think the skeptics are all wanting to see a successful prototype and that first happy customer.
when I see that Ill bow in respect.
til then, Im a doubting thomas.
jason
Last edited by artguy; Dec 16, 2002 at 07:37 PM.
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,298
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From: Tejas
is this thread's car...the fd with the ls1....is it the same as this car?
http://home.attbi.com/~bmay2000/rx7ls1.html
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthr...?threadid=4747
just wondering...looks like this one took since march and there is no update? whats the word on this one mr labreck? any ideas?
I wonder how his worked out
j
http://home.attbi.com/~bmay2000/rx7ls1.html
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthr...?threadid=4747
just wondering...looks like this one took since march and there is no update? whats the word on this one mr labreck? any ideas?
I wonder how his worked out
j
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: yeah
ARTGUY YOU SMOKING THE CRACK?WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA IT WILL BE CLOSE TO 20-30K.WOW YOU MAY NEED TO REREAD SOME SWAP ARTICLES.
ON TOP OF THIS WHEN HE SAYS ITS A STARTING POINT.HE MEANS ITS A 345HP DROP IN STARTING POINT.405 WITH HIS.
ON TOP OF THIS, FROM THIS STARTING POINT U CAN DO BOLT-ONS, GET INTO COMPLETE ENGINE BLUEPRINTING AND CUSTOMIZING, AND STILL COME OUT WITH JUST AS MUCH POWER AS A 13B BUT MORE RELIABLE AND NOT TURBO HEAT.POWER ADDERS HAVENT EVEN BEEN ADDED.NOW ADD A BLOWER OR TT'S NOW WE ARE TALKING RIDICILOUS AMT OF POWER. NOW ADD NITROUS.
AS WHERE A 13B ALREADY STARTS OUT WITH TURBOS AND A WHOPPING 255HP.A 13B AS ALREADY HALF WAY THERE IN MY OPINION.
ON TOP OF THIS WHEN HE SAYS ITS A STARTING POINT.HE MEANS ITS A 345HP DROP IN STARTING POINT.405 WITH HIS.
ON TOP OF THIS, FROM THIS STARTING POINT U CAN DO BOLT-ONS, GET INTO COMPLETE ENGINE BLUEPRINTING AND CUSTOMIZING, AND STILL COME OUT WITH JUST AS MUCH POWER AS A 13B BUT MORE RELIABLE AND NOT TURBO HEAT.POWER ADDERS HAVENT EVEN BEEN ADDED.NOW ADD A BLOWER OR TT'S NOW WE ARE TALKING RIDICILOUS AMT OF POWER. NOW ADD NITROUS.
AS WHERE A 13B ALREADY STARTS OUT WITH TURBOS AND A WHOPPING 255HP.A 13B AS ALREADY HALF WAY THERE IN MY OPINION.
Schadenfreude...Ha Ha
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,202
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From: Austin, TX
Jason, I thought I'd add up everything I've been looking into as I've been contemplating the swap.
I don't know how you're coming up with your total, but here's what I come up with making the assumption that Jim's idea of adapting a Mustang rear end will work, and that you do all the work yourself.
Some of my estimates are probably high, and some are low, but hopefully they're in the ballpark and cancel each other out. Everything but the engine is a "new" cost and might be found cheaper elsewhere:
6000 LS1 engine/tranny/clutch/Computer assembly
700 custom driveshaft
1000 adapted Mustang rear end
750 subframe/ Bump steer Correction
300 upgradedfuel pump
250 upgraded fuel lines/fittings
550 Upgraded fuel injectors
500 ls1edit for computer programming
400 custom wiring harness
3000 katech Stage II heads
400 katech stage II cam
400 gasket kit
400 ARP Hardware
700 Crane 1.8 rocker arms
4500 Crower rotating assembly/stroker kit
1500 tools/Miscellaneous parts
600 miscellaneous shipping costs
For the grand total of an even $23K, leaving you with a stroked 383 LS1 that should "reliably" put you in the 500 HP/500 ft. lb. range.
Expensive proposition to say the least, and each individual would have to weigh whether they thought it was woth it or not.
I'm pretty sure that the base swap (engine/tranny/computer/fuel upgrades) could be done for around $10K, it's the "building" off of that base that gets costly.
That amount of money will purchase quite a few rotary upgrades. That said, it's something I'm still considering. I haven't made up my mind yet, and to say my wife is NOT convinced it's worth it would be an understatement. She claims the car is fast enough stock
I don't know how you're coming up with your total, but here's what I come up with making the assumption that Jim's idea of adapting a Mustang rear end will work, and that you do all the work yourself.
Some of my estimates are probably high, and some are low, but hopefully they're in the ballpark and cancel each other out. Everything but the engine is a "new" cost and might be found cheaper elsewhere:
6000 LS1 engine/tranny/clutch/Computer assembly
700 custom driveshaft
1000 adapted Mustang rear end
750 subframe/ Bump steer Correction
300 upgradedfuel pump
250 upgraded fuel lines/fittings
550 Upgraded fuel injectors
500 ls1edit for computer programming
400 custom wiring harness
3000 katech Stage II heads
400 katech stage II cam
400 gasket kit
400 ARP Hardware
700 Crane 1.8 rocker arms
4500 Crower rotating assembly/stroker kit
1500 tools/Miscellaneous parts
600 miscellaneous shipping costs
For the grand total of an even $23K, leaving you with a stroked 383 LS1 that should "reliably" put you in the 500 HP/500 ft. lb. range.
Expensive proposition to say the least, and each individual would have to weigh whether they thought it was woth it or not.
I'm pretty sure that the base swap (engine/tranny/computer/fuel upgrades) could be done for around $10K, it's the "building" off of that base that gets costly.
That amount of money will purchase quite a few rotary upgrades. That said, it's something I'm still considering. I haven't made up my mind yet, and to say my wife is NOT convinced it's worth it would be an understatement. She claims the car is fast enough stock
Senior Member
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From: yeah
ur adding up the costs of a very high output swap.and overpricing
700 for driveshaft?try 150
6000 for engine tranny pcm combo?try 3500
a basic swap
does not require an upgraded fuel pump/injectors
lines/regulator/a mustang rear end/ls1 edit/cam/katech heads
a 400 dollar wiring harness?try 250
but if u wanted to go stupid costs type here we go:
race built engine:4000
turbo kit:4000
rear end:2000
custom cf driveshaft:800
computer:3000
tuning:1000
intercooler:1500
radiator:500
fuel pump /rail /injectors/lines:1000
for a total of 17,800.for a total of 500 hp that will get a total of another 4000 dollar rebuilt race motor and so on.and we keep some reliability.man that sux for ppl that cant except hp in all forms.
700 for driveshaft?try 150
6000 for engine tranny pcm combo?try 3500
a basic swap
does not require an upgraded fuel pump/injectors
lines/regulator/a mustang rear end/ls1 edit/cam/katech heads
a 400 dollar wiring harness?try 250
but if u wanted to go stupid costs type here we go:
race built engine:4000
turbo kit:4000
rear end:2000
custom cf driveshaft:800
computer:3000
tuning:1000
intercooler:1500
radiator:500
fuel pump /rail /injectors/lines:1000
for a total of 17,800.for a total of 500 hp that will get a total of another 4000 dollar rebuilt race motor and so on.and we keep some reliability.man that sux for ppl that cant except hp in all forms.
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,298
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From: Tejas
so you hit 17k done right...the other higher estimatete wingspan kindly provided hit 23k...WITHOUT LABOR...add in labor and youve got what I see.
Im a guy who spends a lot of time at work. I make video games and the schedules are 60-90 hours a week..ALWAYS. If I was lucky I would get one or two weekend days a month to spend on working on a swap like this. My only option would be to work out a deal with an experienced swap builder like v8lover and hinsonsupercars...
now I may be wrong but Im thinking they said it was 80 hours labor...probably higher...regardless that is another 80 hours times 60-70 bucks an hour (fair price for decent mechanic labor right now I think)...so 4800 bucks plus for labor BASE...which puts ya between 20-30k...throw in another few hundred bucks for total clean up and polishing...not to mention tuning on the dyno at 150 an hour...oh geesh...ya see where this is leading? In reality I think that is the low estimate for time...Id think to get it right would take almost a month...but what do I know...Im just a skeptic. I can only imagine the number of times the car would have to go back for "this and that" until all the bugs were worked out.
twint78...Ive seen your pics of your rather dirty engine bay with that swap...Im not surprised you got it in under 23k like the list above. no offense...but it looks like it.
did you put in used stuff?
if you did....you get what you pay for.
jason
PS..if that was not the same car that is in the link...what was the end result of that car I wonder?.. I wonder if he hit his desired performance range...surely it's done by now. if any of you are members of that forum perhaps you could drop him a note so he can come in and show us the timeslips and dyno charts.
Im a guy who spends a lot of time at work. I make video games and the schedules are 60-90 hours a week..ALWAYS. If I was lucky I would get one or two weekend days a month to spend on working on a swap like this. My only option would be to work out a deal with an experienced swap builder like v8lover and hinsonsupercars...
now I may be wrong but Im thinking they said it was 80 hours labor...probably higher...regardless that is another 80 hours times 60-70 bucks an hour (fair price for decent mechanic labor right now I think)...so 4800 bucks plus for labor BASE...which puts ya between 20-30k...throw in another few hundred bucks for total clean up and polishing...not to mention tuning on the dyno at 150 an hour...oh geesh...ya see where this is leading? In reality I think that is the low estimate for time...Id think to get it right would take almost a month...but what do I know...Im just a skeptic. I can only imagine the number of times the car would have to go back for "this and that" until all the bugs were worked out.
twint78...Ive seen your pics of your rather dirty engine bay with that swap...Im not surprised you got it in under 23k like the list above. no offense...but it looks like it.
did you put in used stuff?
if you did....you get what you pay for.
jason
PS..if that was not the same car that is in the link...what was the end result of that car I wonder?.. I wonder if he hit his desired performance range...surely it's done by now. if any of you are members of that forum perhaps you could drop him a note so he can come in and show us the timeslips and dyno charts.
Last edited by artguy; Dec 16, 2002 at 11:11 PM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 257
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From: HinsonSuperCars.com
Originally posted by artguy
for the base swap people are looking at close to twenty grand....now if they were to go with all the upgrades you speak of...that would push them up another ten grand or more...am i right?
for the base swap people are looking at close to twenty grand....now if they were to go with all the upgrades you speak of...that would push them up another ten grand or more...am i right?
It is this false type of false information being posted by you and other people clearing taking a wild guess that is so frustrating. I find myself constantly typing the same thing again and again because the majority of the whiners on this thread are too lazy to read.
so basically...if someone wants a killer vette motor in their seven its gonna cost them close to or more than 30000 dollars. Not to mention the things you havent spoken of....axels...gears...and the rest that will constantly need to be changed out with a car pushing that kind of power.
I support your venture...I really do.
I think the car that your friend is building will be rad...I hope he finishes it and proves us wrong...proves that there is a reliable and strong performing alternative to what is currently there.....however it sort of annoys me that you all are on here slamming the rotary and the seven...and yet you dont have a prototype that is successful and proven.
all Im sayin is...put yer munny where your mouth is...yer close I bet...but I think the skeptics are all wanting to see a successful prototype and that first happy customer.
when I see that Ill bow in respect. til then, Im a doubting thomas.
It is apparent that some of you are to stuck on the illusion that Japanese engineering from over 10years ago is still the top in world. It is time to wake up and smell the LS1 exhaust. The development of this car wasn't posted on this board for your public approval. It was done to show a superior alternative to the aging rotary problems that plague the owners of these great cars.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: HinsonSuperCars.com
Originally posted by artguy
twin...Ive seen your pics of your rather dirty engine bay with that swap...Im not surprised you got it in under 23k like the list above. no offense...but it looks like it.
twin...Ive seen your pics of your rather dirty engine bay with that swap...Im not surprised you got it in under 23k like the list above. no offense...but it looks like it.
PS..if that was not the same car that is in the link...what was the end result of that car I wonder?.. I wonder if he hit his desired performance range...surely it's done by now.
Schadenfreude...Ha Ha
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,202
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From: Austin, TX
ur adding up the costs of a very high output swap.and overpricing
700 for driveshaft?try 150
http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/html/hd_aluminum.html
6000 for engine tranny pcm combo?try 3500
a basic swap does not require an upgraded fuel pump/injectors
lines/regulator/a mustang rear end/ls1 edit/cam/katech heads
lines/regulator/a mustang rear end/ls1 edit/cam/katech heads
The basic swap SHOULD include some sort of fuel system upgrade (at least pump and lines IMHO) unless you're a big fan of engine fires. The upgrades to the heads, injectors, computer, cam, etc. would be for a "built" engine, not the stock swap.
Anyhow, I'm not arguing with you on the merits of the V8 swap, I think the hybrid idea is a solid one. I'm happy that you finally got your engine running and that you did it all on a shoestring budget. I'm not knocking your car at all. it is a cool achievement
You're talking about an LT1 conversion though , and one that seems to have been pushed through with conversion time being the biggest issue. I'm looking at an LS1 swap, and Like I said before, if I'm going to do it, I am going to do it right, and not as cheaply and half-assed as possible. Project time isn't that big of a concern for me. My FD is not my daily driver. I can therefore expend the extra time and effort to do it in a manner that I think is right.
LS1 parts and upgrades are EXPENSIVE!, while parts for the LT1 are less so
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From: HinsonSuperCars.com
Wingsfan: Twint78 was talking about a LT1 swap, so you're both right.
Odds are that a local drive shaft shop can take care of you for less than $450. If you can't find someone willing to do it for you locally, then please contact me, and I will help you find the right price.
As for the rear end upgrade, the car launches great with a mild LS1 up front. There is no wheel hop in hard daily driving, and unless you're seriously going to make gobs of power and drag race it, you will be fine to leave the rear alone. However, this applies to high HP rotary cars as well.
Odds are that a local drive shaft shop can take care of you for less than $450. If you can't find someone willing to do it for you locally, then please contact me, and I will help you find the right price.
As for the rear end upgrade, the car launches great with a mild LS1 up front. There is no wheel hop in hard daily driving, and unless you're seriously going to make gobs of power and drag race it, you will be fine to leave the rear alone. However, this applies to high HP rotary cars as well.
Last edited by V8 Lover; Dec 16, 2002 at 11:27 PM.
Full Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 130
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From: USA!
Originally posted by wingsfan
I realize the rearend isn't part of the swap. I wasn't including it as such. With such a "built" engine you'd have a hard time putting all that power to the ground without the swap, or I don't think Jim would be pursuing it.
The basic swap SHOULD include some sort of fuel system upgrade (at least pump and lines IMHO) unless you're a big fan of engine fires. The upgrades to the heads, injectors, computer, cam, etc. would be for a "built" engine, not the stock swap.
Anyhow, I'm not arguing with you on the merits of the V8 swap, I think the hybrid idea is a solid one. I'm happy that you finally got your engine running and that you did it all on a shoestring budget. I'm not knocking your car at all. it is a cool achievement
You're talking about an LT1 conversion though , and one that seems to have been pushed through with conversion time being the biggest issue. I'm looking at an LS1 swap, and Like I said before, if I'm going to do it, I am going to do it right, and not as cheaply and half-assed as possible. Project time isn't that big of a concern for me. My FD is not my daily driver. I can therefore expend the extra time and effort to do it in a manner that I think is right.
LS1 parts and upgrades are EXPENSIVE!, while parts for the LT1 are less so
I realize the rearend isn't part of the swap. I wasn't including it as such. With such a "built" engine you'd have a hard time putting all that power to the ground without the swap, or I don't think Jim would be pursuing it.
The basic swap SHOULD include some sort of fuel system upgrade (at least pump and lines IMHO) unless you're a big fan of engine fires. The upgrades to the heads, injectors, computer, cam, etc. would be for a "built" engine, not the stock swap.
Anyhow, I'm not arguing with you on the merits of the V8 swap, I think the hybrid idea is a solid one. I'm happy that you finally got your engine running and that you did it all on a shoestring budget. I'm not knocking your car at all. it is a cool achievement
You're talking about an LT1 conversion though , and one that seems to have been pushed through with conversion time being the biggest issue. I'm looking at an LS1 swap, and Like I said before, if I'm going to do it, I am going to do it right, and not as cheaply and half-assed as possible. Project time isn't that big of a concern for me. My FD is not my daily driver. I can therefore expend the extra time and effort to do it in a manner that I think is right.
LS1 parts and upgrades are EXPENSIVE!, while parts for the LT1 are less so
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,298
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From: Tejas
so according to the figures you have there...12k for the do it yourself guy...(Im assuming this does not include all the good stuff...nor the stuff to really do it right...but you are the expert..you tell me) add in the labor/tuning and you are close to my figure regardless....if you want it done right you throw in thousands more.
all said and done my figures are NOT blown out and not false assumptions. They are not conservative either...but they are realistic to they way things work...Ive been doing this car thing for long enough to know that.
alluding that i was a lazy whiner was a mistake on your part. I was estimating based on the numbers you provided. Lazy I am not...I work my *** off...a whiner I am not...I am simply proposing the other side that you seem so afraid of people knowing.
I got my carpet cleaned a couple weeks ago...the ad said fifteen bucks...I asked about other charges...they said none...when they got to the house they let me know that their price was for steam only...not soap...not scent....ya see what I mean...they could clean the carpet but if i wanted the stains out and for it to smell good I was gonna be paying a little extra.
Lets say we go with your price and say you can do it for rock bottom...maybe fifteen-eighteen grand with labor...but as I said before...ya get what you pay for...and at that kind of investment there is only one way to do it...right. this costs MUNNY.
I have heard what jim lab has spent on his to do it right...granted he went overboard...but in all honesty his way is the way to do it...top o the line all the way.
v8 and twint78 ...you both will have cars to envy Im sure. as far as proven...lets see the dyno charts in conjunction with the timeslips. How do i know how the car is performing...I dont hang at your shop...I dont know how well it is driving...but those two things will help me understand what you really have rather than what you are selling. is that too much to ask?
the list on hinsonsupercars site is very comprehensive...in all honesty I think the prices you are charging are incredibly low priced. I dont fault you there at all...I dont fault you for the attempt at the hot hybrid...I simply think its gonna cost more than what you are suggesting if you really want to do it right. you claim that you can do it affordably...but I still dont see how 20 grand is affordable...even 15...when the rotary can go in for five with a streetport and another few for bolt ons for decent power....
this is an open forum for public discussion...freedom of thought...a place to ask questions...learn...be corrected etc...sorry to break it to ya...its not an advertising forum where the advertisers control the articles and discussion...that is called CNN.
jason
all said and done my figures are NOT blown out and not false assumptions. They are not conservative either...but they are realistic to they way things work...Ive been doing this car thing for long enough to know that.
alluding that i was a lazy whiner was a mistake on your part. I was estimating based on the numbers you provided. Lazy I am not...I work my *** off...a whiner I am not...I am simply proposing the other side that you seem so afraid of people knowing.
I got my carpet cleaned a couple weeks ago...the ad said fifteen bucks...I asked about other charges...they said none...when they got to the house they let me know that their price was for steam only...not soap...not scent....ya see what I mean...they could clean the carpet but if i wanted the stains out and for it to smell good I was gonna be paying a little extra.
Lets say we go with your price and say you can do it for rock bottom...maybe fifteen-eighteen grand with labor...but as I said before...ya get what you pay for...and at that kind of investment there is only one way to do it...right. this costs MUNNY.
I have heard what jim lab has spent on his to do it right...granted he went overboard...but in all honesty his way is the way to do it...top o the line all the way.
v8 and twint78 ...you both will have cars to envy Im sure. as far as proven...lets see the dyno charts in conjunction with the timeslips. How do i know how the car is performing...I dont hang at your shop...I dont know how well it is driving...but those two things will help me understand what you really have rather than what you are selling. is that too much to ask?
the list on hinsonsupercars site is very comprehensive...in all honesty I think the prices you are charging are incredibly low priced. I dont fault you there at all...I dont fault you for the attempt at the hot hybrid...I simply think its gonna cost more than what you are suggesting if you really want to do it right. you claim that you can do it affordably...but I still dont see how 20 grand is affordable...even 15...when the rotary can go in for five with a streetport and another few for bolt ons for decent power....
this is an open forum for public discussion...freedom of thought...a place to ask questions...learn...be corrected etc...sorry to break it to ya...its not an advertising forum where the advertisers control the articles and discussion...that is called CNN.
jason
Last edited by artguy; Dec 16, 2002 at 11:49 PM.