Ive been searching around and I just want a updated list of the intake temps for anyone who has the M2, ASP, or PFS(Large/Race) SMICs.

Please post:

- type/make/model of SMIC
- type of ducting
- major mods(stock twins, single turbo, etc..)
- estimate of ambient temps when the intake temp was recorded


Personally, im looking for the intake temps with the SMICs for a single turbo setup (what i have) but im sure the list will help others that are concidering going SMIC.

Thanks

 

Intake temperatures when? During cruise, constant high boost run (generally something you could only do at a race track), intermittent high boost runs... There is also the issues of the stock IAT sensor being far from accurate because of its location.

Without detailed logging of intercooler intake and exit temperatures under a variety of different circumstances any numbers reported will likely be pretty meaningless.

The SCC articles from several years are probably the most scientific tests you are likely to get.

I don't think there is any debate about the M2 large (or the PFS, which is really a copy). It is pretty much the best SMIC out there and has been for quite a while.

And please don't start a SMIC/FMIC debate. Life is too short.

 

Spirited driving on lets say a 75 F day.

Just curious what people got in whatever situation they were in when they happened to look at there intake temps.

This thread really is suppose to be for the medium to heavily modded FDs, but also anyone who has the M2/ASP/PFS (Race/Large) SMIC.

I know there are more than just a few single turbo track/street FDs that are running these SMICs.

 

The temperature of the stock AIT sensor is going to be much different than that of a true open element sensor or that of the true temperature. So type of sensor needs to be included. A GM AIT sensor shows almost instant temperature changes where as the stock sensor will never see the temperature range nor a change in temperature. Shoot during a WOT run you don't see much of a change in temp with the stock temperature until well after the run. I have attached some datalogs of my setup with an XS power IC and GM AIT sensors at the inlet and outlet of the IC along with that is stock AIT sensor that has been relieved of some of its outer plastic for faster response. So assume your sensor would be even slower. As during some testing I did the trimmed sensor did show a good increase in temperature reaction. Also check out the PFC-GM sensor column for some interesting differences... BTW the stock sensor is in a greddy elbow.

 

My AIT is on the piping right after the oulet of my FMIC.

 

hah cozmokraemer needs to post in here...

 

Really interesting stuff. (Only slight confusion in your logs is column C which is labeled "AirT C" when it is clearly Fahrenheit.)

The stock AIT sensor is clearly very slow - I wonder what the numbers would have been if it had been in the stock location without some of the plastic cover removed.

What is the part number for the GM sensor? How did you log both with AFRs given the limited number of Datalogit inputs?

Martin

 

Me screwing up my labeling I was editing the file before posting because of the upload limit, I also had to convert from C to F from my datalogit log. My datalogit has 4 A/D inputs so I had two setup for the GM AIT sensors and the other two for my WBO2 signal and ground. I usually switch between my two ait sensors and my two egt inputs depending on what I'm looking for. My original intent on this test was looking for efficiencies of the XS power IC with a my custom fiberglass duct. I have run the AIT's multiple times when tuning though with similar results. The GM open element AIT sensor is a standard part that's used on most of the GM cars. I orignally pulled the part numbers and temperature/voltage curves form the megasquirt website.

 

So you just used the car's common ground for the AIT sensors?

 

Man your pre-intercooler numbers are high! Where is your intake pulling its air from? I have also sanded all of the plastic off of my stock IAT sensor. In vacuum with no intercooler my numbers resemble your post intercooler numbers (mine would be 3-5C higher).

I want to figure out a way to run an open element sensor into the PowerFC so it reads it like the stock sensor. Having a slow to react sensor in an FI car is absurd. Chalk it up to another Mazda engineering oversight. If you are going to trim or dump fuel based on air density (temperature) you really have to have an accurate and fast to react sensor. I have spoke at length about this with Richard an engineer @ Aquamist. Basically what we want to do is use the water injection to keep temps stable as the car enters boost. I am trying to keep temps in the 45-50C range under boost. I am altering the methanol content of the injectant mixture to do so (more methanol = more cooling). Right now I am running 100% water.

With my PFS intercooler, intake and duct setup, I would see consistent 60C temps cruising around town. I very rarely would drop into the 50s, and that isn't under boost. Also, my car would heat soak real bad with that intercooler and I would see 75 and 80C temps what it was heat soaked. This is in pretty hot 100+F ambient temps.

With somewhat normal temps I had intake temps similar to mine now, but my engine and oil were consistently 10-15C higher than they are with my setup now.

My intercooler setup just didn't make sense to me so I ditched it. I will have some logs from extended load on a dyno and a 20 minute track session within the next two months. I will post the logs of my IAT when I get them.

 

Actually I had tied a ground wire to both sensors and then to the block where I have added a ground wire. I also was surprised by the results and thought maybe I had an offset in sensors so I have swapped them to recheck with the same results. This was my earlier 60-1 turbo setup which did not spool well and ended up dieing from shaft failure at the compressor nut. My assumption is the turbo had issues and was pushing a lot of heat, as my 62-1 replacement actually spooled quicker and felt like a lot of more than a 10% increase in power.

Oh yeah my turbo intake was in the corner by the headlight. No real cold air. I had originally thought about programming a pic to take a GM sensor and output a voltage similar to the stock AIT sensor. I decided to go haltech though instead as the PFC really started annoying me at idle with no AIC.

 

I bet that Mazda couldn't make an ECU that could keep up with inputs THAT quickly - the stock ECU is no speed demon, especially considering it's 1990 technology. If Mazda could have saved 1 cent by not coating the sensor with plastic, they would have .

Dale

 

That is true! You sometimes (most of the time) forget how much computer technology has advanced in 15 years.

That is a fairly disconcerting thought about Mazda. In some of the stuff they did with this car they could have spent an extra $10 and reapped the benefit of increased sales, and decreased warranty expenses. People are so scared of the RX7 because of reliability. I think that, for the most part, could have been avoided.

But the ECU was one part of the car that was seriously holding it back...and that was probably just due to technology of the time, and can't really be blamed on Mazda shortsightedness.

I definately feel the pain of the stock IAT sensor though, that thing is SOOO slow to react. Makes me wonder about those fuel correction settings that relate to IAT. What good do they do if the sensor is showing you what happened 15 seconds ago?

 

I once read (but can't remember where) that Mazda considered dry sumping the original Miata. Because most buyers wouldn't know what it was, Mazda decided it would be a waste of $18.

 

$18..... wow...


Anyways, back on topic:

Is there any way to use the GM IAT with a Power FC? And what does it take to do so? Since I already know you can use the GM MAP sensor

edit - i know its an old thread, but it is a question I wanted answered...

 

30-35 celcius at night and 40-45 during the day

stock twins, small smic and full exhaust

 

I would like to hear more about IAT temps recorded with different i/c setups during HPDE track session. Specifically towards the end of a session, if you ever made it that far. On a 70*F degree day I got my IAT to 90*C after about 15 minutes. At the time I was running an ARC SMIC with OE duct.

 

Wow, that doesn't sound right at all. I would pull your sensor and check to make sure it's giving correct readings. I bet your ECU is pulling timing like crazy if those readings are in fact what it's getting.

FWIW, in May 2008 I was on a pretty short track running about 10-11 psi stock turbos /w an M2 medium, w/ duct. On average, for every two "hot" laps I would have to take a cooldown lap (oil temps getting out of control), but towards the end of the 20-25 min sessions highest AIT's I got was 50-55*C, most of the time it was in the high 40's AIT, ambient temps were 65-70*F that day... BUT, I think those readings reflect the bulk temp of the upper UIM, not really the actual air.

The track was CA Speedway infield. HERE IS A LINK FOR A PIC OF THE TRACK. I think it's a little over 1 mile long per lap, only time I was really on it were the main straights, of which there are 5 or 6.

 

I would climb steady to 90 over 15 minutes. Most of the time I was in the 75-85*C range. Yes, timing was retarded.

Granted I am running 1 Bar of boost, but how the heck to you maintain those temps on the track! Your track temps look like my coolest autox temps. What I/C are you running?

 

Wow, that is really high. I run a Pettit CCIII on my T78 track car and it gets low 50'sC on a full 30 minute session with outside temps being 95F+. When it's around 70-75F outside, it normally stays in the high 20's/30'sC.

 

I have the M2 medium with fiberglass duct. It's pretty crazy to put my hands on the pipes after running the car hard on a coolish (60*F or less) day... I can't even touch the turbo hot pipe, it's so hot, but the cool pipe going to the motor is cool to the touch

Are you running stock turbos? I wouldn't even think about running that kind of boost on the track unless you have water/alcohol injection. I've not looked at a compressor map of the stockers to see what kind of efficiency (and therefore heat generated) they are at at 1 bar, but I'd imagine it's probably less than 60-70%. That means a lot of heat and that's a no no on the track BUT, if you're running a properly sized single turbo... then that's a different story In all seriousness, either you are generating way too much heat, not rejecting enough of it, or your readings are incorrect, or a combo of the above. First thing I would check would be the sensor itself... your temps don't seem reasonable to me. Good luck!

 

I never considered checking the sensor but I will. However, given the water temps were 115*C, I wouldn't be surprised the air sensor heat soaked to 90*C. Actually, I made a mistake, on the track I run low boost and on that particular session I only peaked at 0.78 kg/mm^2.

 

I had a PFS standard mount and ducting when I ran stock twins. On a hot day, say 90F, it would run 55C on the highway with no boost.
When I went single, I did everything I could think of to lower my intake temps- shielding, cold air intake, phenolic insulator between the UIM and LIM, Jet Hot coating both UIM and LIM and a SM Bell Intercooler (and some other things more directed to minimizing heat soak). Now, my intake temps run at ambient to + 2-3C above. "Spirited driving" (2nd & 3rd 15psi boost on back roads) MAY raise the intake temp to +5 over ambient, no more.

 

I'd expect them to go higher during a track session. Regardless, you have a unique cooling configuration. Is your IAT sensor still in the UIM?