Flying_solo

iTrader: (7)

I would **** kittens if they just rereleased the RX8 with a 450HP Turbo motor that didn't have a POS fuel pump or Coils. The chassis really is fantastic, the Renesis and other cheap parts are what really killed the car.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

from Autoweek today

We haven't talked about Mazda RX rumors in a while, and we were getting a little nervous about the lack of speculation. Well that ended on Thursday with talk of a new, twin-turbocharged rotary engine from the company, making somewhere in the neighborhood of 449 hp.

According to reports at Motoring.com, Mazda was developing a 301-hp, naturally aspirated engine, but a new source told Motoring that the company is now building a twin-turbo unit.

Sources initially told Motoring that Mazda was going to house the engine in an upgraded version of the next MX-5 platform, but since the power increase, the company may look at reworking the RX-8 platform.

The obvious guess for a name for the new car is RX-9, but the company has reportedly registered both the RX-9 and RX-7 names with Japan's trademark office.

Another plan for the new car centered on a new SkyActiv engine, eschewing the rotary because of its oil consumption, low midrange torque and low fuel mileage, but the marketers objected saying that such a car wouldn't excite the marketplace. We have to agree.

We haven't talked about Mazda RX rumors in a while, and we were getting a little nervous about the lack of speculation. Well that ended on Thursday with talk of a new, twin-turbocharged rotary engine from the company, making somewhere in the neighborhood of 449 hp.

According to reports at Motoring.com, Mazda was developing a 301-hp, naturally aspirated engine, but a new source told Motoring that the company is now building a twin-turbo unit.

Sources initially told Motoring that Mazda was going to house the engine in an upgraded version of the next MX-5 platform, but since the power increase, the company may look at reworking the RX-8 platform.

The obvious guess for a name for the new car is RX-9, but the company has reportedly registered both the RX-9 and RX-7 names with Japan's trademark office.

Another plan for the new car centered on a new SkyActiv engine, eschewing the rotary because of its oil consumption, low midrange torque and low fuel mileage, but the marketers objected saying that such a car wouldn't excite the marketplace. We have to agree.

Motoring notes that the 50th anniversary of the rotary-powered Cosmo is coming up in 2017, which would make it a perfect time to introduce a new car.



Read more: Mazda rumored to be working on new rotary engine - Autoweek
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook




Motoring notes that the 50th anniversary of the rotary-powered Cosmo is coming up in 2017, which would make it a perfect time to introduce a new car.



Mazda rumored to be working on new rotary engine - Autoweek
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook




////////////this makes sense to me as the rotary really (REALLY) shines w a turbo due to its' ability to flow much more air per displacement V a piston engine. for instance just received an email from Aaron Parker who made 437 ft pounds of Tq at 4750 today... all from 80 cu inches//////////////

howard

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

twin-turbocharged rotary engine from the company, making somewhere in the neighborhood of 449 hp

hahahahahahaaaahaaaaahhahahaaaaaaa :cries:

HiWire

I'm fine with them using the RX-8 platform as long as it's a two-door coupe.

A non-rotary would make sense in the MX-5 or a hardtop version of it.

I guess they crunched the numbers and realized that a 300 hp coupe, no matter how light, would not be able to compete in today's sports car market.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I'll believe 450 hp when I see it, but maybe somebody from Mazda is creeping this thread afterall.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

the RX8 has longer A arms for better camber control than the FD. i like.

doing the math on the motor. let's use 450 Flywheel.

450 X .85 = 382 rwhp

1.3/1.6 = .81

382 X .81 = 309

if the 16x is making 450 FW it would be the same power to displacement as a 309 rw BREW.

given direct injection, active knock control etc

hc

mastawyrm

Well ****, as long as we're doing some wishful thinking and all...

Maybe the reason they have both rx7 and rx9 registered is so they can come back with both a true 7 successor AND some kind of new Cosmo!

mastawyrm

I know that hp/L tends to get more difficult with more displacement but given the couple of decades+ for development time, that actually sounds pretty damn reasonable. I sure wouldn't complain with that kind of power figure for a lightweight sports car.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

ok this could happen

new MX-5 Chassis NA 16X with ieloop, 2500lbs 300hp call it RX-5

modified RX-8 chassis electrically assisted Turbo (and ieloop) 16X, 2700 lbs, 450hp RX-7

they could even go dual fuel hydrogen as an option for lease/sale in California now that they're increasing hydrogen fueling infrastructure to support fuel cell cars... They had Hydrogen RE running in Norway in 2007!

fmzambon

It's interesting how quickly these made up news are distorted when bouncing from one magazine to the next:

Either it's twin scroll or twin turbo. I seriously doubt it's both.

Anyway it's still the same "unnamed source", so for me it's...



As simple as that.

Andrea.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i agree with part of fmzambon's observations...

the twin scroll and twin turbo jumped out at me also... just shows the knowledge level of the writers...

my guess is twin scroll, turbos have vastly improved since the FD was on the drawing boards and in the 21st Century a single can make lowish RPM power like the unfortunately designed FD system.

hc

RustyRotary

iTrader: (2)

In MotorTrend's announcement of this rumor they said the RX8 used the 16X engine...

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I think it was a typo. I mean when writers think fd, they think twin turbo so thats what was probably written by mistake. I dont think Mazda wants to build another twin turbo setup considering the added torque the 16x is already suppose to make down low.

Anyways if Mazda did register both the Rx7 and Rx9 tradmarks, too me that could only mean the return of a 3 rotor Cosmo in Rx form to go high scale and compete with other luxury sporty coupes in the market. This would go a long ways into broadening the rotarys appeal.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I don't see how they could make it a conventional twin scroll if it has side exhaust ports. There are three exhaust runners on an Rx-8, one from each side housing. On older rotaries, there are two exhaust runners, one from each rotor housing. The 89-91 FC had what we'd consider a conventional twin scroll turbo, with one rotor going to one scroll and one rotor going to the other scroll. Mazda went down that road a long time ago and were pioneers in twin scroll turbos on gasoline engines.

The previous 87-88 models had the variable turbine A/R system as implemented by Hitachi. Borg Warner is trying to bring that kind of system back. I can see Mazda trying it. Instead of running off a vacuum solenoid like the 87-88 Rx-7, the BorgWarner system uses a valve controlled with an H-bridge, like an electronic throttle.

It could also be twin turbo (like a diesel is, not like the FD), or it could have a 48 volt electric turbo + mild hybrid + conventional turbo, or it could be mechanically supercharged and turbo. Trust me on this, two-stage boosting systems will all be hitting the high end market in the 2017-2020 model year range. Volvo just released a supercharged + turbo 2.0 4 cylinder making 302hp.

The technology exists; it's not far-fetched from that perspective. Every one of those technologies I described exists and are committed to production or at least production-ready. The boosting concepts have already been studied. The question is whether Mazda wants to go upmarket again with all that expensive technology.

Tripple 7's

Who knows maybe its even a new Dualboost Turbo Gasoline DualBoost Turbochargers | Light Vehicle Gasoline Engines | Our Technologies | Honeywell Turbo Technologies

fmzambon

Perhaps they could use the center exhaust port to feed one scroll and the outer ports to feed the other. Maybe with a valve to close off the outer ports at lower revs and improve response by feeding all of the exhaust pressure to a single scroll?

The point of my previous post, however, was not specifically about twin scroll vs twin turbo, it was about the fact that, to put it simply, "it's too good to be true".
A turbo rotary with more power is exactly what entrusiasts have been dreaming for years, and now a piece of news (from the same, usual, unnamed insider) comes out describing exactly that. This sounds just too good, so I'm going to call BS on all of this.

By comparison, the 250hp rumor from last january was much more believable, just because it said something opposite to what everyone was hoping. As a magazine, you don't get much sales by saying that an upcoming sports car is going to be LESS POWERFUL than the previous model, so that rumor sounded more likely than this 450hp turbo nonsense.

And, as I said several times, Mazda cannot afford to have only one super powerful rotary powerplant. They need a higher volume option, something with no more than 300hp, preferably no more than 250hp. That means either NA + turbo engine options or 2 rotor NA + 3 rotor NA. And the 2 + 3 rotor NA has a higher chance of not getting either variant underdeveloped, as the two engines would be much more similar to each other.

Just my

Andrea

t-von

iTrader: (8)

That is very interesting tech. I want one to play with.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

really good stuff 2198 and 2200...

Mazdas' DNA is radical engineering.

for a substantial period of time the minority ownership by Ford diluted products significantly. i know this from first hand comments from Mazda not for publication and only after Mazda bought out Ford.

i will not be surprised at anything outside the "norm" coming from Mazda and this includes the entire product line.

Go Mazda.

Howard

t-von

iTrader: (8)

^I'm so glad that Mazda unloaded Ford. As long as the high volume 3,6 and Cx5 keep selling like hot cakes, the future looks very bright. Makes me wonder if they will ever attempt to start that luxury division again? I've always wanted to see something rival Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

Slightly wider center plate with independent equal sized exhaust ports thus eliminating the center siamese port and increasing port area for more flow and balancing the exhaust flow and temperature profiles.

since they're changing the geometry of the engine they might as well change the center plate and eccentric shaft. They could even add a center bearing...

HiWire

Speaking of interesting turbos... Mercedes' secret weapon: Mercedes's Clever Formula 1 Turbo Setup Explained - Video - Road & Track

Spirit-RE

iTrader: (25)

Very cool.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Well, there goes all the tooling for manufacturing the last rotaries. I guess if they were ditching it anyway you wouldn't have as much marginal cost to do that design.

I suspect there would be a significant friction penalty to doing that, but who knows.

Drifted88

iTrader: (3)

http://www.carthrottle.com/mazdas-rx...rotary-engine/
Idk if this has been posted already but

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Your 7 days late and a dollar short there bud.