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I highly doubt fd prices will be influenced either way. This is a 20+ year old car. GTR prices didn't change when the R35 came out. The small population of people that want an fd don't want one just because a new rotary is or is not being released.
Supply and demand is what determines pricing. A new rotary does not change that, unless you are one of the few collectors that want to buy an fd just because it's the last of its kind or because you want the old and the new in the collection. That is such a small percentage that it won't influence the overall market. Maybe it applies to the super low mileage stock cars but there are very few left as it is.
Not sure how US prices were affected, but R34 prices in the UK have risen by about £20k since the R35 came out...
You can't actually tie that to the R35 release. There are lots of variables, the 90's era Japanese sports car market has increased in value due to the age of the car and all the people that grew up with them now being able to afford them. Also, the 25 year import rules are starting to open up and driving up value as the US starts to import the R32 and R33. R34's are also some of the best of the best and its becoming harder and harder to find a good clean example which drives the dollar value up. I bet the R35 price would drop quite a bit if an R36 came out, which would be the opposite of what you are saying the R35 did to the R34.
Originally Posted by kensin
hmm look at the nsx
The old NSX was already in a totally different league than the fd from a cost and collector car perspective. Much more of a collector car than the FD has been. There is an old NSX in the front row at the McClaren dealership nearby, its very unlikely you would see an FD being treated the same way. The new NSX is also in a totally different league than a new FD would be.
Nothing mentioned here drives a direct influence on the pricing of FD's other than what Blue said if a whole bunch of FD owners sell off to purchase the new one, creating a temporary supply increase which would lower prices until it balanced out.
The new NSX is also in a totally different league than a new FD would be.
Right. It is not a spiritual successor to the old NSX, just Honda's take on the GTR.
3,800lbs of driver's aids and power.
Counterpoint-
As we have seen a very well done basic upgrade FD can take a GTR out on the street and shorter race tracks, but not in a straight line or on a track with long straights.
I am speaking of the RE Amemiya touge monster FD and its victory over tuned GTR.
If the new RX is 450hp and 2,700lbs with it will approach the GTR and NSX peak power to weight (same power to weight as 3,800lbs/630hp). But... both those cars will have more instantaneous/accessible power (power under curve).
If the new RX handles/fits rubber at least as well as the RX-8 it is already ahead of the GTR/NSX in grip/handling. I think it might since the RX-Vision had 18x11 out back.
But... you would have to be a damn good driver.
As the GTR has shown, driver aids do work.
Basically, the same battle as before with the FD versus R32,33,34 GTRs. Different league, yet direct competitors.
I'd trade my FD for an NSX...then sell the NSX, buy another FD, an R32 GTR and a Supra. Those three combined cost about as much as a well maintained NSX up here.
Honestly if Mazda cant make the rotary pass emissions alone they should go hybrid. Times are changing, and the longer it takes Mazda to build the RX the harder and harder emission laws become. Heck I would be fine with a car that looks like the RX vision but with a inline 6 or even a flat 4. Yes I said it, I know you some of you don't like the idea of a "RX" car with a hybrid system or a piston engine but I would love to see Mazda build another beautiful sports car like the FD even if it means going piston or hybrid.
Now it sounds like Fujiwara (product development) says only the Skyactiv-R engine will be shown at the 2017 Tokyo Motor Show in October.
Fujiwara: This time we show only the concept of the engine, on the body, chassis and other information is currently no detailed information can be provided to you.
So, apparently they will just announce there will be a rotary production model and show the engine so people believe it.
Also Mr. Kiyoshi Fujiwara, Masuda's executive officers and Ms. Yamamoto Shuhiro, said that they will announce the new RX-7 at the Tokyo Motor Show in 2017.
It seems that the restoration of the Rotary Engine · RX - 7 is coming soon.
I have been following the news/rumors in Japanese searches for a while and they have been saying Mazda will have something at Tokyo Motor Show 2017, but this is the first time I have seen names attached to the news and indeed quotes from interviews.
16K engine huh?
Not sure if that is something the journalist came up with or word from Mazda, but I guess I will start including it in my searches. Lord knows 16X search isn't turning anything up.
Skyactiv-r and rx-vision, RX-9 or "new mazda rotary" (that in Japanese) seem to turn up the results.
It looks like a lot is emissions & better gas mileage related. The combustion chambers provide more time to burn unburnt fuel and the primary intakes & exhaust port look like they have less overlap. The split combustion chamber could also provide higher for more NA HP.
It'd be very interesting to see a 30mpg hwy rotary. I think that it's possible with a longer final gear and some low rpm work. You could also make the engine shut down one rotor when cruising to conserve fuel.
Looks like semi-direct injection (injector at top of motor) and the rotor recesses provide a couple benefits.
The pictures seem to show the modified/directed swirl and a rich pocket off the leading side for lean burn.
The divider will also divide the rotor combustion tub across the minor axis (pinch) in the rotor housing.
Perhaps so the leading flame front does not backburn into the trailing pocket (same as negative split forcing the trailing pocket down into the leading pocket preemptively) at a certain ignition angle.
This could improve torque (combustion centered on leading side of rotor (expansion with direction of rotation instead of against it) and would allow more precise and delayed ignition of the trailing pocket (for more complete burn/better emissions).
I read that Mazda took a step back and installed quartz engine windows so they could high speed film the combustion and tweak it.
It'd be very interesting to see a 30mpg hwy rotary. I think that it's possible with a longer final gear and some low rpm work. You could also make the engine shut down one rotor when cruising to conserve fuel.
I'm not so sure that would be the optimal solution. I've driven my FD on the highway with 1 rotor before, and it's less than enjoyable...
Your better option would likely be to fine tune your highway cruise map.
Now it sounds like Fujiwara (product development) says only the Skyactiv-R engine will be shown at the 2017 Tokyo Motor Show in October.
Fujiwara: This time we show only the concept of the engine, on the body, chassis and other information is currently no detailed information can be provided to you.
So, apparently they will just announce there will be a rotary production model and show the engine so people believe it.
Also Mr. Kiyoshi Fujiwara, Masuda's executive officers and Ms. Yamamoto Shuhiro, said that they will announce the new RX-7 at the Tokyo Motor Show in 2017.
It seems that the restoration of the Rotary Engine · RX - 7 is coming soon.
I have been following the news/rumors in Japanese searches for a while and they have been saying Mazda will have something at Tokyo Motor Show 2017, but this is the first time I have seen names attached to the news and indeed quotes from interviews.
16K engine huh?
Not sure if that is something the journalist came up with or word from Mazda, but I guess I will start including it in my searches. Lord knows 16X search isn't turning anything up.
Skyactiv-r and rx-vision, RX-9 or "new mazda rotary" (that in Japanese) seem to turn up the results.
I wish I could read japanese
Even if they only show the engine it would be the first new rotary intended to directly power the wheels of a car since the 16X. It'll be interesting to see what solutions Mazda decided to use. Peripheral intake and side exhaust, as in the range extender? What is the actual rotor tub shape? Injector number and position? Any provision for HCCI operation? Maybe number of rotors
This said, I'd be surprised if there's nothing at all about the car that will use the engine.
Anyone have more information on this? It is 6 months old.
Not quite true. That is patent 2015-190377 (application number 2014-067893), filed on 28.03.2014 and published on 02.11.2015 (that is november the 2nd, not the other way round ).
The (translated) patent text seems to mention that the engine would be hydrogen-fueled. So I doubt that we may see that bathtub arrangement in the new engine.
Yeah, I meant that article with the patent details on the semi-direct injection and rotor tub shape is from 2016, not current date like the 1st two I posted.
If I may ask, where did you find the 16K reference? I can't seem to find it in these articles...
That was something Google Translate made up it seems.
I look at the text in Japanese and it says 16X and Google Translate of the article (side by side) says 16K.
Interview with Ikuo Maeda, chief of design and son of designer of 1st RX-7 with some more information.
Power comes from a SKYACTIV-R rotary engine, but Mazda is staying tight-lipped about the details, only saying that the engine will be the car’s main power unit, and that it will be more powerful and efficient than any previous rotary. Kiyoshi Fujiwara, Mazda’s R&D boss, says: “We have further developed the materials used for the rotary tips and seals. The engine will undergo a development process that is two or three times as intensive as our other SKYACTIV engines.”
Good, sounds like it will be well proven before it is released to the public.
“It’s hard to say exactly when it will happen, but it’s not too far in the future,” Maeda-san says, and smiles mysteriously before rising and striding purposefully back into the storm.
On the stock ECU don't the RX-7 and the RX-8 technically run on one rotor under light load when cruising?
they shut off one rotor under some deceleration conditions. the Rx8 doesn't really do it, i think, but the Rx7's do all the way back to 1981.
pic is from the JC Cosmo training manual, see the rear rotor fuel cut zone right in the middle?
the reason they do this is that the engine has a tendency to misfire under partial load, so they shut off one rotor, the remaining rotor has more load and runs better.
the carburated cars used this to keep cat temps from spiking on decel, which is something that the EFI cars didn't have a problem with
12-13-16, 07:11 AM
