The RX-7 confirmed to be in the pipeline for 2017---RX-Vision Unveil!!
09-02-14, 07:05 PM
#2201
Even if it doesn't help the performance that much, people who will actually buy the cars brand new (not people who just chatter about cars on the internet) want power and torque. Whether you agree with it or not, a lot of it is a status thing. Someone who is going to buy a sports/performance car and make payments on it doesn't want to feel like his neighbor's kid's V6 Mustang outmatches it.
This is so true in so many ways it's not even funny.
Example: In today's market, if you re-release the 255hp Rx7, the 300hp 300zx, and 320hp Supra at similar prices, which one do you think would sell like hotcakes? It wouldn't be the Rx7. Even the fact that the Rx7 is the better overall performer wouldn't matter to the average consumer. It's all about those hp figures.
09-03-14, 01:07 PM
#2202
Full Member
fmzambon... "A higher powered car cannot sell in the same numbers as a lower powered car, all else being equal." There may be something in what you say, but you sure are making me work for it. For instance, if everything was the same for 2 cars -- everything else being equal -- and one line of cars had 400 hp whereas the other one had 250 hp, the car with 400 hp would sell more, not less. Who wouldn't take more if there was no loss of anything else?
If what you meant was that if one car has more power than another, but it costs just more or even disproportionately more, the maker of the more powerful car should expect fewer sales, you might be right. However, some would counter that in the league of halo sports cars there is a certain level of power or bar or hurdle to entry, and I think right now that bar is 450 bhp.
I remember discussing power with Henrik Fisker right before the Aston Vantage was announced and arguing that 375 bhp was too low if the car was meant to compare with the better porsches and some Ferrari's and Maser's. They brought it out at 375 or so and had to raise it to over 400 within a few years. I would probably have brought out a 5.3 Liter engine in the first palce with 450 bhp and capitalized on the Tad Marek v8 engine size Aston produced in one form or another since 1968 through 1997 or so.
There are classes of sports cars where they all need to have at least so much power or they are not really in that class at all. Such under-powered offerings are often priced in the group for which their power is short a few bhp and they sell poorly. I expect that Mazda will come out with something rotary powered and exotic that is priced $55-80,000 or so and destroys most Porsches at the track. Price it with Corvettes and offer the same or better performance in a more exotic package focused around light weight and Chapman-esque handling. A repeat of the FD, but faster and more exotic. That, anyway, would truly float my boat.
Gordon
If what you meant was that if one car has more power than another, but it costs just more or even disproportionately more, the maker of the more powerful car should expect fewer sales, you might be right. However, some would counter that in the league of halo sports cars there is a certain level of power or bar or hurdle to entry, and I think right now that bar is 450 bhp.
I remember discussing power with Henrik Fisker right before the Aston Vantage was announced and arguing that 375 bhp was too low if the car was meant to compare with the better porsches and some Ferrari's and Maser's. They brought it out at 375 or so and had to raise it to over 400 within a few years. I would probably have brought out a 5.3 Liter engine in the first palce with 450 bhp and capitalized on the Tad Marek v8 engine size Aston produced in one form or another since 1968 through 1997 or so.
There are classes of sports cars where they all need to have at least so much power or they are not really in that class at all. Such under-powered offerings are often priced in the group for which their power is short a few bhp and they sell poorly. I expect that Mazda will come out with something rotary powered and exotic that is priced $55-80,000 or so and destroys most Porsches at the track. Price it with Corvettes and offer the same or better performance in a more exotic package focused around light weight and Chapman-esque handling. A repeat of the FD, but faster and more exotic. That, anyway, would truly float my boat.
Gordon
. If two cars were exactly identical except for the power figure (and I mean EVERYTHING else being equal), then yes, the more powerful car would certainly sell more.What I wanted to say, however, was that in the real world a more powerful car is almost always more expensive to run than a lower powered car. This additional expense can keep some customers away, possibly even if the initial purchase price was the same between the lower and the higher powered car.
This is just to say that coming out with a 400+ hp rotary ONLY could be a very risky strategy, as the sales volume would be very small. Adding a lower powered variant alongside the "super" rotary could help generate more sales and better recoup the R&D costs.
Your reasoning about a given power level being required to "play" in a certain class is very true. It all depends on what class the next Rx is targeting. And at that point its price would likely be defined by other (non premium brand) cars in the same class.
Andrea.
09-03-14, 07:47 PM
#2203
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
live stream of the new Miata intro from Monterey NOW
Watch the Mazda Miata unveiling live | Autoweek
howard
Watch the Mazda Miata unveiling live | Autoweek
howard
09-03-14, 09:43 PM
#2205
Rotary Enthusiast
I like the new design. It's subtle, but effective. And 220 lbs. lighter!
09-04-14, 08:06 AM
#2206
live stream of the new Miata intro from Monterey NOW
Watch the Mazda Miata unveiling live | Autoweek
howard
Watch the Mazda Miata unveiling live | Autoweek
howard
09-04-14, 12:57 PM
#2209
Recovering Miataholic
A turbocharged ND MX-5 Miata would surely be quicker in the mid-range than our stock '94 FD (which my turboe'd '90 Miata could match up to 90 mph or so). The 220 lb drop in weight from the current model would put it at about 2300 lbs, but what is the hp?
IMHO the ND is beautiful; I like it better than my '90 NA, which I owned for over 18 years... love the fender tops being slightly above the hood... means a lot to the forward view.
IMHO the ND is beautiful; I like it better than my '90 NA, which I owned for over 18 years... love the fender tops being slightly above the hood... means a lot to the forward view.
09-28-14, 10:21 PM
#2211
All out Track Freak!
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Looks like a mini mustang which isn't a bad thing but I had hoped for more as well. It makes no never mind to me because I'm not into a 13 to 1 powered car. STill can't figure out why the hell mazda doesn't drop a rotary in the miata and call it the RX5
09-28-14, 10:41 PM
#2212
Moderator
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I could be worse LOL
Looks like a mini mustang which isn't a bad thing but I had hoped for more as well. It makes no never mind to me because I'm not into a 13 to 1 powered car. STill can't figure out why the hell mazda doesn't drop a rotary in the miata and call it the RX5
Looks like a mini mustang which isn't a bad thing but I had hoped for more as well. It makes no never mind to me because I'm not into a 13 to 1 powered car. STill can't figure out why the hell mazda doesn't drop a rotary in the miata and call it the RX5
to the second point, i agree, a rotary Mx5 seems like the best idea since the bread slicer....they should have done it in 2004
*if you want a rotary muscle car, we have that, the Rx3 is the classic, and then the FC is the modern.
09-29-14, 12:38 PM
#2214
A little kindling for the fire... Here's to hoping it doesn't burn out. This one I REALLY like. Mid engine FTW!
A Glimpse Of A Future Rotary-Powered Mazda RX-9
A Glimpse Of A Future Rotary-Powered Mazda RX-9
09-29-14, 04:28 PM
#2216
A little kindling for the fire... Here's to hoping it doesn't burn out. This one I REALLY like. Mid engine FTW!
A Glimpse Of A Future Rotary-Powered Mazda RX-9
A Glimpse Of A Future Rotary-Powered Mazda RX-9
09-30-14, 12:57 PM
#2217
Those people in that Rx9 article don't have a clue. If "and that's a HUGE IF" Mazda builds another rotary sports car, that car is gonna have to be a HUGE, RELIABLE success before we can even start dreaming of something remotely resembling a mid-engine superstar. Personally, I think a future Rx9 will be an evolution of the 3 rotor Cosmo sport sedan. That seems way more realistic because there's a market for such a car and Mazda needs something uniquely luxurious in their lineup. If and when Mazda decides to go all out, then they can build an Rx12 mid-engine something rediculious rotary monster.
09-30-14, 02:43 PM
#2218
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on a more serious note; since the Rx8 was not a huge success, are they going to skip the Rx9, and go right for Rx10? its 2 better.
10-02-14, 11:21 PM
#2220
A little kindling for the fire... Here's to hoping it doesn't burn out. This one I REALLY like. Mid engine FTW!
A Glimpse Of A Future Rotary-Powered Mazda RX-9
A Glimpse Of A Future Rotary-Powered Mazda RX-9
10-09-14, 11:15 AM
#2224
Just take the blue pill..
^ I have been watching that podcast for a couple of years now, and Derek D is definitely an acquired taste. Believe it or not, he does have his moments of truly funny.