wstrohm

Weight cancels out of the cornering equations. Increased downforce due to increased mass is exactly countered by increased momentum (m x v) trying to keep the vehicle going in a straight line. A very light car with adequate tire/ground contact will corner just as quickly as a very heavy car with equivalent tire/ground contact.

Digital Dude

It looks like Audi is tossing their hat into the ring with the 2,449 pounds overall TT Ultra Quattro Concept, which is moved by 310 turbocharged horses... Mazda, are you listening??? Zoom Zoom...

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

But VERY FEW would buy it because:

a) It's not a Porsche
b) It has an engine that few know VERY little about
c) They "heard" back when they kids about "sealing issues"
d) The last one they had drank gas, and DANG, gas is pricey
e) All of the above

So, for Mazda to sell a car at that price, it needs to:

a) Offer several NA power trim levels (2 rotor standard, 3 rotor premium) with all offerings having bullet-proof reliability (similar to Gen 2 NA)
c) Go like STINK, in other words <2500 lbs and 350 RWHP (minimum)
d) Have drop dead gorgeous styling (seek advice from Grassroots Rotary focus groups)
e) Get "decent" overall gas mileage (~25-30 mpg)
f) Carry a killer warranty (5 years, 100K miles)

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

^^^^

My whole argument has been, given a-e (first list), Mazda needs to build something unique and transcendent (if that isn't too strong a word).

People will actually care LESS about reliability, gas mileage, and practicality at the higher end. ZERO point in chasing the BRZ. The BRZ will always win on those points for the lower-mid end buyer.

for $70k, no, it's not a Porsche. What's a $70k Porsche? It's an not even a 911 anymore. It's a Cayman S. Those things are (IMO) slow for that kind of money. So make the RX-? faster. That wouldn't be hard for Mazda at that kind of money.

That's also Corvette and Lotus Territory. So make it smaller/better handling than a Vette, because you'll never compete on power. Make it slightly more livable/accessible/powerful than a lotus.

<2500 lbs. 350hp. World class handling. Drop dead gorgeous. **** everything else. It'll never get great mileage or carry two sets of golf clubs. Play to your strengths, minimize the weaknesses. A three-rotor all-alluminum 2.4X could make that power NOW, and for 70k the thing could REEK of carbon fiber and come with spirit-R like Recaros. Heck, you could even throw in a Nardi steering wheel.

adamrs80

iTrader: (7)

And there is this competition. Mazda will have something to do with the 2C, not sure if they have anything to do with the 4C. The 2c and 4c look like the exact same car to me.

Coming to America: Alfa Romeo 4C - Automobile Magazine


I have to say that so far I really like this little car. Needs a manual transmission though. It seems too light and small though. I would feel good and relatively safe in a modern 2800 lb. car.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

would be so sweet.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

Base 2014 C7 Corvette 450hp priced at $52k...

Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 V6 348hp track is $34k

Nissan 370Z 3.7 V6 332hp $33k - $43k


IMO Mazda should target Hyundai in power and price; 350hp with the price under $35k but keeping the weight under 2800 lbs... I want to be able to afford it!!!

adamrs80

iTrader: (7)

I want to be able to afford it too. Assuming it's going to be up-market from the BRZ I think Mazda should keep the new RX-7 lower than it's price back in 1992, when adjusted for inflation, etc. 35k-50k would be ideal. That gives plenty of room for lower trim and powertrain levels at the 35k range. It works for the Corvette. The top of the line RX-7 should be around or under the price of a base Corvette.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

$70k might be excessive. But my point was, adhering to the whole "make-it-under-35k", compete with the entry-level BRZ thing isn't necessary. If the "higher end" car was the same cost as the entry level Vette, Mazda could do a lot with that.

But there's no reason that Mazda couldn't build the "RX7" brand back up to be equal with "Corvette" or "GTR". Those are Chevys and Nissans afterall, in a world of $69k V8 Hyundais. If Mazda has to resort to "targeting Hyundais", it's all over IMO.

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

^^Yea, and come out with a Cheesy marketing campaign where the GTRs and Vettes are bowing (front ends dropping) as the new RX-7 rolls by, i.e., Mitsubishi ad....LOL....!!

j/k

Hyundai is killing the marketplace right now because of SALES$$. Nothing drives innovation and new product offerings like CA$H FLOW. On the GOOD NEWS front, I read yesterday that Mazda Stock was up 100 percent in the past 12 months. That's got to help the cause

HiWire

How much would it cost to make a two-seater from a modified RX-8 platform? They already have the X16 engine. Alfa Romeo and Jaguar obviously think they can sell new sports cars in this market. Heck, they could just make an updated FD and people would love it... a lot of R&D has been done by tuners already.

KKMpunkrock2011

iTrader: (5)

With the right marketing team Mazda should be able to sell anything. Honestly I think the best route for them would be to build a 'Vette killer, and release it only in Japan, get the hype going stateside, and then a year or two later "decide" to import them here. Nissan sold the GT-Rs on they hype of bringing back godzilla, and they delivered. The potential to do the same thing with an RX7 remake is there, but Mazda has to do it right.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Marketing is key, and to me it's not a dirty word. The FD was never marketed well or aggressively, most people don't even know what it is. And Mazda has NEVER properly capitalized on it's overall Le Mans win.

HiWire

And some of the competition is falling down... e.g. bloated BMW, enlarged Porsche 911 with electric steering, Ford sticking with a live-axle rear... there are definitely opportunities for a purist rotary sports car. I am excited about the new Viper.

One of the big questions is: how many does Mazda want to sell? I just looked at the Nissan GT-R production figures on Wikipedia... about 1,500 manufactured a year, which might be fine for a supercar sold at that price. The 350Z/370Z sold close to 37,000 in North America at its peak and is now down to about 7,000: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

the most significant factor relating to a new RX7 is FORD.

the absence of Ford.

as most know Mazda bought Ford's ownership share back. for a number of years the relationship was a win win.

it was stated to me privately by a person at Mazda in the position to know that the traditional Mazda personnel felt somewhat "handcuffed" as to product design.

Mazda wanted to return to being Mazda.

and Mazda before Ford was a rad bunch

hold on to your hats as Mazda X-Ford will be a fast ride looking forward.

as to the new RX7...

i know nothing. i do feel that first and foremost it must be built around its heart

and of course that is the rotary.

the rotary is diminutive in size... 180 pound shortblock, 13 inches in size in all directions.

it is also potentially very powerful when turbocharged as the motor really flows.

turbos make sense in the 21st century.... think Eco Boost. fuel mileage and power.

the engine is light and the car must be cutting edge light.

nothing goes faster than light

nothing stops faster than light.

nothing corners faster than light

it must have the double A arm racing profile negative camber gain on bump suspension

a 21st century FD w a simplified single turbo perhaps as an option.

of course if i had my ultimate wish it would be for Mazda to bring back the car that made them:

the RX3... can you imagine how many kids would buy a stripped down rear wheel drive rotary coupe?

sort of like my favorite Mazda...



a Fordless Mazda is going to be a wild ride.

eat your Wheaties

Howard

ghost1000

iTrader: (1)

the best thing about a BRZ is the after market upgrades already available. Mazda will probably build a car that's difficult to work on and upgrade even though most people start upgrading there rx7 from day 1

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

^ I personally would love to buy a car that I wouldnt have to extensively modify to have the power or handing that I want. Dont get me wrong, I love modifying cars somewhat, but there is something to be said about purchasing a car and already being 90% happy where it is. That is what my current allure is to cars like C6 Z06s. Buy one, nice set of wheels, maybe some coilovers. Some bolt in power stuff like CAI and catback, tune. DONE. You have a car thats mostly stock yet still stands out from others enough to be "yours". You arent shoulder deep into aftermarket parts to where you have almost nothing factory under the hood anymore. Buy it, drive it , enjoy it, and it still is fast enough to kick most other cars ***. I in no way expect Mazda to build a 500+HP car. But it needs to be 375 at a minimum and ~2800lbs to even start be taken seriously.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

ghost,


By reading most of your posts on this thread, I get the idea that your main point of interest is upgrading the new platform with aftermarket support. Truth be told that is not a good corporate strategy because after market support brings unknowns that the corporation can't take into account. For instance if no one ever fucked with their stock sevens and opted to just leave them alone, the rotary would have never gotten the bad reliability reputation that mazda is fighting to remove. As you may know a stock FD is pretty darn reliable. As in stock form these engines don't go around blowing apex seals out of the blue. Its when people start messing with them that the real problems begin.

The reality is most people are NOT interested in voiding the warranty on a brand new vehicle that isright off the showroom floor. In other words, upgrading is not an option. We, who like to thinker are the small minority and within that minority even fewer would touch a brand new vehicle. Including myself. I wouldn't buy a new car that know that I would need to upgrade. Screw that I'd put down more cash on something else.

ghost1000

iTrader: (1)

It's a toy car. People buy them to have fun with them.
The 1990's supra was a great car from the factory, no need to change anything at all but for $1200 u can buy a BPU kit and make 450whp and run hi 11s. More serious tuners can go even faster.

Buying a sports car that restricts upgrades is liked getting a dead end job. It feels good at first but has no future.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you. Toys or not, you have to understand that "tuners" are not the majority and are actually a liability to a corporation's mission statement. The mission statement being, keeping an image as well as making a profit for both the present and future. Remember they have board members to answer to.


Seriously who do think Mazda prefers as a customer: This guy



or this guy?

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

Depends who's laying down the GREENBACKS!! . Top guys will NOT ALWAYS win in that scenario...

Montego

iTrader: (1)

Yes it depends on who the target audience is. One of those two dudes usually has more disposable income who can plop down more cash. I seriously doubt that mazda would purposely crate a rotary sports car with a tuner in mind. Talk about brand suicide... As I said it on the previous post. It is the tuner community who is at fault for the unreliable reputation the rotary has.

scion and now the brz cater to the dude at the bottom. Underpowered and inexpensive vehicles... The FD with leather seats, sunroof, bose system, ac, cruise control and with an average price of $35k in 1992 did not.

At this point it is all speculation

ghost1000

iTrader: (1)

The FD stock blows motors at 80k and runs 15s if u don't keep up with basic maintenance.

BRZ/FRS sales seam to be doing just fine. If u want a all show with a little but of go car buy BMW.

From what I've seen the most reliable rx7 from the factory is the first gen

ghost1000

iTrader: (1)

The rx7 is in the same class as mustang and camaro. Both good cars from the factory both have a huge after market. Ten years ago I bought my first rx7 because I could swap the clutch quickly without the risk of crushing myself if the trans fell on me. Then I met some guys at the track an learned how to make them fast. Faster then camaro mustang and many other cars.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

well I know a guy whose fd went to 135k and mine went 108k... but ask people who don't own rotaries and they will tell you that the average life span of a rotary is 20-30k miles. Now why do you think that is?

I will say it again most people don't buy cars with the intent of voiding their warranty.

For me to even consider a 2017 rx-7 it would have to be at least 400 hp @2800 lbs. Because for $50k I sure as hell not expecting to upgrade so I can void my warranty, fail smog, increase the noise of my car, and expose myself to modified tickets. Oh heck no...