thethingthatshouldnotbe

Just saying the rx7 has never made its own but rather competed with others.

thethingthatshouldnotbe

Drawings are cool. They seem to be looking all the same anymore (the new cars being released)

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Gordon,

I think he's just poo pooing the RX7 as a copy cat and or an unimportant car but he should at least know his history to make his argument stronger because didn't the FB come before the 300. Hell the TR7 started that triangle look with the pop ups and then lots of other cars followed (hell even your precious c4 has a slight taste of those days OK maybe a big shot or a 40 oz of those times hehe) but the last gen 300 got it right and may end up a classic. I still love those cars.

Anyone comparing a 3000GT and the FD is way out there and won't make it back with a compass and a map.

PS I like the drawing and in 5 years everyone will want a no nonsense, light weight, powerful sports car with no electric nannies etc... that stuff is getting soooooooo ridiculous. Anyone who loves sports car loves them because they are fun to drive not because they are comfortable and make driving easy and luxurious. Maybe Mazda will be ahead of the curve and once AGAIN build the perfect sports car but until then we'll just enjoy what we have because they got it right the 3rd time.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I'd love to see any kind of proof at all to back this up.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Just do what you and others are doing. Drop a NA 20b in the FD

ZE Power MX6

iTrader: (157)

I'm sick of all the talk about the new 7 need to be BRZ this FRS that, it's supposed to be the other way around...

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Just because a car is built to "compete" with other cars, doesn't mean it's derivative of them. The FD competed with many cars of it's era, such as the 300ZX, Corvette C4, 3000GT, Supra TT, Acura NSX...

I'd say it was derivative of none of them, and unique among them in execution. Fact is, for the most part it's competitive with many of their successors (some of whom, lke the C5 Corvette, was modeled after IT in many respects) with minor mods... with the possible exception of the NSX, it's the only one that you'll still find is "competitive" at autocrosses and track events.

p.s., I think this thread has jumped the shark.

chiefboon

+1

Could not agree more, this is something that constantly bothers me...

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex and more violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move in the opposite direction.
-Albert Einstein

prototype_uk

I can't wait, The rotary engine has to be simply the best. It is so different from a piston engine and I like being individual lol

prototype_uk

Forgot to mention I have a 1972 RX3, FD RX7 and a RX8. A new RX7 will add to the collection nicely

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Mazda didn't get everything right with the FD, but it was by far their masterpiece. Realistically, all new cars will have some level of extra technology. It's a sheer requirement based on the continual increase in emissions, safety and MPG standards. What Mazda did with the FD was create an excellent platform. That platform was so good, that it has resounded for over 20 years as one of the best Japanese sports cars ever.

All Mazda has to do, is make another excellent platform; a platform that can be expanded upon and simplified where need be.

billt

iTrader: (1)

I traded my 3000gt vr4 for my FD and never looked back. The 3000gt was a great commuter car on the highway but that's about all it was good for. The only things they have in common are 4 wheels & 2 turbos.

max240

iTrader: (3)

As much as I would hate to see a redo of the FD (Could you see a new production run?), Mazda could easily update the drivetrain and simplify/update some things and would be competitive with a twenty year old base platform.

I don't know how well it would sell, but the styling is still amazing.

rx7+8=nice

iTrader: (1)

Nice likel to see the rx7 back in the market

getgone

iTrader: (2)

I have a coffee table book for the FD. There were hundreds of protype renderings and clay models fabricated by Mazda R & D in the course of deciding what was to become the final design/appearance of the 3rd Generation RX-7. I doubt this expense and several years effort was undertaken for the sake of copycating someone else. Despite 'thethings' perspective, the rest of the automotive world recognizes the FD as possessed of a unique kind of genius.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Well, I have the coffee table book for the FC and the FD and they took just as much time and changes designing the FC, but the design by committee route still ended up with something quite similar to the Porsche 944.

Now, the FD. I am not sure what anyone is claiming they copied there. To me it looks closer to TVRs and Corvettes 15-20 years later than any of its contemporaries, but without their much of their "clutter".

I only hope that Mazda keeps things simple again for the aesthetics of the new RX-7.

Red95FD

iTrader: (3)

I was just thinking today, there is not really any of todays new cars that I would buy. I love the Rx-7 that much. I love the feel, the smell, and mostly the looks of all 3 generations and I would probably spend the money if a fourth gen came out.
I'm not saying anything bad about todays cars, they are nice but I would rather have an rx7.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

^^^^^

Indeed. I don't really read car magazines anymore, except when I fly, and so I downloaded a Road & Track on my way back from Florida. Had fun reading, but I was struck by how frequently in the road test/comparo articles how bland and over-laden with technology the cars came off. They weren't trying to say this, but it came through.

ZumnRx8

The 16X was used in the Taiki Concept (2007) and the new rendering out of the Blue Rx7 or Next Gen Rotary is very similar to what we saw with the the RX Evolv and the Rx8 looked like..... I believe this story to be true.

The concept of the RX8 came in '99 (RXEvolv) and the RX8 was Released in 2004 (5 years). Being 2013 and the new rotary rumored to arrive in 2017, 10 years after its Taiki concept with the 16X (2007]
I wouldn't doubt that MAZDA has had enough time to mess with the 16X , its direct injection, and special catalyst to take the Taiki concept to the next level of taking it from a FR car with a 16X to a MR car with a 16x 3 rotor and design it after the Furai. That would be pure win.

If anyone has read about RE-Amemiyas Lotus Europa with the rear mounted 3 rotor making 300hp N/A ( http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/01/...ya-20b-europa/) then think that same size, 16X 3 rotor Furai, only having much more torque than the 20b version....Torque!!!!!!!

3 rotor Furai racing in LMS/GT or a 3 rotor Taiki/Rx7 expect Championships like the SpeedSource RX8s...which were also 3 rotor. <:-)

Price Range I expect it to be in with todays $$$
16X in Taiki - $45k+
16X based 3 rotor after the Taiki - $65k
16X based 3 rotor Furai - $100k-$120k

All this is possible,this 16X based 3 rotor. Heck we have that dude that engineered the 12 rotor motor, and recently we had PPRE engineer a 6 rotor. I'm pretty sure Mazdas RnD in charge of the next Rotary have things under control.

Damn wouldn't that 16X based 3 rotor Furai definitely be a Super Car to have! Once they give us that 16X, I'm sure someone will make a 3 rotor out of it like some have already done with the RENESIS.

MAZDA's last two concept cars were the Taiki followed by the Furai. Who knows... we might have two rotaries in the line up, a Sports Car and a Super Car!!!

ZumnRx8

Note: MAZDA's latest "Nagare" Concept Cars 3 of 5; Nagare, Taiki, and Furai, were ROTARY powered!!! IMO too much money is really being spent in RnD for the Rotary for MAZDA to deliver anything less than the BEST!!!!

austin102085

iTrader: (6)

Sweet

ghost1000

iTrader: (1)

If Mazda builds a sports car with 200lbs of metal for a engine and charges over $25,000 in today's money there're crazieyyyyy.

Sounds to me like The new rx7 has no soul . The rotary is a simple engine and should be in a simple car. Almost every car on the site is a tuner car but Mazda wants to build something different. I really hope Mazda builds an affordable back to basics car.

As for there direct injection it should be standard on there other vehicles before its standard on the rotary engine.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Your calling 20mpg an improvement over efi? Back when my fd was stock I got 26mpg on my trip to Seven Stock 7 back in 2004. I'm with you on wanting to help Mazda with R&D but your gonna have to adapt to this modern age my friend and leave all this carb talk to the dinosaurs.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Depends on your definition of "back to basics".

The FD was actually a "back to basics" car, relative to what was going on in the industry (see: 3000GT). That doesn't have to necessarily mean cheap and slow.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Now the one thing I'm really curious about is Mazda's new converter that they engineered to make the rotary's return possible. With that said, I wonder if the tech is good enough that it could be used to clean the old PP exhaust? I'm not that big of a fan of the Renesis after seeing it's short comings.

Anyone who knows the Renesis knows how sensitive the Renesis side seals are due to detonation and heat out the side exhaust. Mazda knows this that's why they didn't want to turbo charge it. Plus the Renesis is a carbon build-up/flood heavy monster. Originally I thought the side exhaust design was gonna allow for even longer longevity than the older engines since the the apex seals no longer had to slide over the and open exhaust port. Well boy was I wrong!!! It turns out not having that port doesn't allow for the apex seals grooves to clean themselves due to no open port. The carbon build-up has no place to go.

We all know what happens when the apex seal grooves build up with too much carbon and start locking down the apex seals? You get lower compression and increased chances for flooding. I witnessed this 1st hand far too many times when I was Parts Manager at Mazda a few years back. It really saddened me to see so many rotary powered vehicles towed in for flooding. And then to hear all the customers complaining about now they would never buy a rotary powered vehicle again because they never knew if there 8 was gonna leave them stranded or not. This is the new millennium and customers expect their vehicles to start and run every single time they turn the key regardless how they drive it. Bad experiences travel far and the rotary's reputation here has been tarnished. Now I don't believe the S2's are having this same problem with Mazda redesigning the OMP system to have more injectors. I think the extra oil is really helping to keep things moist in the seal grooves. Wells see.

I know the Renesis design is here to stay but I WISH they could bring back the old PP design. If this new cat can clean the old PP exhaust, then Mazda could easily just use Renesis style engines on NA models and PP exhaust engines on the future turbo applications. Most importantly, Mazda needs to find a way to greatly reduce this engines excessive carbon build-up tendencies. They do that the rotary's reputation for reliability will go through the roof.