Can anyone help me out with a question I have about replacing out my oil pan? I have the existing oil pan, but it has a dent from bottoming out my car on a speed bump.
I have a new one to replace it with. My question is do I need to remove the sub-frame out to replace the oil pan, or can I replace it without removing sub-frame?
Thx for any advise, and help you can give me.

 

I did it with the subframe in place - see link below.

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-arch...emoval-305386/

 

dropping the subframe entirely would be best way if youre not going to pull the motor. dropping the subframe is easy even on the ground. the variables are the hardware holding it to the chassis. if the elements have not been well to your car then i would advise not touching them. youll need a balance bar to support the motor or you can put a wood on a jack under the trans as far forward on the bell housing you can get. a balance bar would be the best solution though. any way you approach it, its a crappy job

 

Personally I refuse to do an oil pan job in the car. I helped with the job once and it SUCKS. Supposedly you can do it without dropping the subframe but IMHO you will burn a ton of time working around it.

I'd only do it with the engine out of the car. In the car the engine will continually drip oil and you need to have the mating surface totally clean and dry or it will leak. FD oil pans are VERY VERY hard to seal up properly.

Dale

 

Had an Oil pan leak on mine and asked the same question a few years back. Trust Dale's response, it's not a nice job and incorrect use of a balance bar will damage your quarter panels.

Pulling the motor is easier than messing around with the subframe and then all the alignment that goes with it. Disconnect the Airbox, remove the intercooler, fuel lines, coolant lines, unplug the ECU and bring the engine harness through the firewall. Unbolt the transmission and engine mounts, it's pretty much out.

Might even be a good time to replace some other parts or install a new clutch while it's out?

Ultimately, this was one of the reasons I decided "well, if I'm pulling the motor, I'll overhaul it"

 

The balance bar isn't difficult to set up at all. There are 2 raised sections on the strut towers for the thing to sit on. Theres no reason to rest it on the fenders.

Theres also no alignment requirements for removing ad reinstalling the subframe. Its keyed with the chassis so it only goes on one way. The eccentric bolts on the control arms don't get touched either. You hang the calipers and drop the thing with the whole knuckle attached.

Its really not hard to do. Its CAN be annoying but I'd rather that then pulling the motor. Back in the day I would rather pull the motor than drop a subframe but after doing it a couple times, its really the better method if you have no real reason to pull the thing.

The "while I'm here..." principal can spiral pretty quick. If you're not ready for that then I would advise dropping the subframe. Its can be done solo

 

My personal knowledge of those that tried pretty much follows comments I’ve seen here….it’s a big job and probably something less than a 50/50 chance a re-seal will be successful with the engine in the car. That said, with a new pan, a good proven sealant, hospital clean surfaces, a good pan brace with the reliefs to match the pan flutes and religiously following sealant instructions and torque specs I’d probably give it a try if there were no other reason to pull the engine.

And these work great and imo would be a good investment…
https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-l...bar-96524.html

 

thats the balance bar i have and use. the feet are spaced perfectly to sit on the strut tower and support the motor without any wobbling

 

It's a major pain in the *** to do in the car, but doable. The real issue is, re-sealing without getting another leak. Its best to pull the engine, drain all fluids then flip the engine upside down. If you do not flip the engine upside down it is near impossible to guarantee oil residue will not contaminate the sealing surface. If it is just dented and not leaking, and you decide to swap it out in the car, you are likely gonna have a pretty new oil pan installed no one will see but they will see the oil stains you leave behind.

 

I should have read all responses before responding. Dale nailed it.

 

Just did an oil pan on a Toyota 4banger, and it is so much easier doing it on an engine stand with the motor upside down.

 

Wow! You guys sound like you all know ur stuff. Thanx guys! Now with that info on hand I'm to scared to do it. The pan is clean, just that dent is what bugs me. I'm planning to sell the car after being in the process of restoring it to stock. I've removed, cleaned, and polished the entire undercarriage. Just the oil pan stands out with that dent. Also, I'm missing the black plastic cover that goes under the engine bay. If anyone knows of one let me know please.
Thx again all!
Lou

 

If it’s not leaking that’s probably a wise choice.

You need what is interchangeably referred to as a belly pan or under tray by most. It’s critical for proper cooling. If you can’t find one used search the forum using a term “Ray Crowe”. Well known and trusted source for new parts. And competitively priced.

 

Ray Crowe can be reached at either his email, or phone number.

Email: crowe.ray@aol.com
Phone: 703-785-5554

 

I just recently got a new undertray from Ray Crowe

 

What's the consensus of replacing the pan bolts with studs / and / or pan brace?

 

Its an awful idea. Switching to studs and using a brace increases the odds your pan won't leak. It also adds some rigidity to the motor itself. Every rotary leaks so you don't want to go against that.

 

It’s been covered before but for the relatively small cost studs and a brace are the way to go.

 

The one tricky aspect to using a pan stud kit is ensuring the studs directly under OEM engine mounts don't stick up much beyond the thickness of the tensioning nut + oilpan thickness
(about 3/8") If they do stick up more, you risk bending studs and/or interference with engine mounts, or worse. It might actually be easier using OEM pan bolts in these 4 rear pan mount locations just ahead of the transmission..
All these rear position pan holes have no bottom and studs can be threaded as far in as necessary.
Premounted studs are so much quicker for installing the oilpan than OEM bolts, ensuring the pan sealant won't cure while you're tensioning bolts, particularly if using a quicker setting pan sealant like Hondabond. Using studs also eliminates possible headaches related to surprise thread debris, since you are premounting studs.
I did preclean threads and paid careful attention to cleaning all housing to iron joins.
I suspect that the main reason pan seals fail so often on the USDM driver side engine mount corner, is the hex shaped oil pressure regulator inside that failure prone pan corner. I cleaned and recleaned the bottom engine face, pan lip and oil pressure regulator 2 or 3 times, with the pan left off for 3 days, and the oil pressure regulator still dripped oil onto that failure prone driver side pan rear corner lip. It was a very tiny trace amount of oil, really easy to miss without good lighting, and still enough to compromise a good seal at that corner. If you're rushed, doing the entire job in a day, or otherwise miss it, you WILL have a seal failure point onto that engine mount and mount bolts. Other common mistakes are not fully covering the entire rear lip with sealant, where engine mount bolts pass through the pan, on both block and pan faces, and not torquing bolts at least close to final spec torque before the pan sealant sets. Curing the sealant 1st, then torquing fasterners, potentially causes inner, less cured sealant to move or bleed, and can cause premature seal failure. Results may vary depending on properties of sealant used.

 

And use a pan brace with the flutes machined to match those on the pan. Some braces don’t. If the picture doesn’t show it, it’s probably not there.

 

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...-tech-1039223/

the correct sealer matters and there is a big difference... please make sure to read the lower part of post one.

 

the PSA here is that Permatex does not discontinue the old formula when a new one comes out, they get complaints
so they have lots of old stuff that has no business in an engine. use the newer stuff

Mazda is now using a Three Bond TB1217D, part number is 0000-77-1217-ES and its like $14

 

"Mazda is now using a Three Bond"

Three Bond, a global company located in Ohio makes almost all of the OE RTV products...

the last new Mazda BREW i opened ( a couple of months ago) had the same silicone as all the others and it is nowhere near as good as HondaBond. perhaps Mazda has changed since that motor... perhaps not.

i thought i did a thread comparing 5 RTV sealers... after letting them set for either 5 days or a week (don't remember which) i checked them w my durometer. Hondabond blew them all away. i then immersed them in gasoline and E85 for a week and checked hardness again. "The RIght Stuff" was down to the Hondabond by 30% and none of the others were close. Hondabond seemed uneffected by exposure to gasoline or ethanol. case closed for me. only Hondabond for my motors. my durometer made it clear..

 

so the original part number for the sealant is 8527-77-739 which is Takata SH780M
around 2010, they switched to the R2Y1-10-431, which is the Three Bond ES1217, in the US we get a direct shipped 0000-77-1217-ES

its kind of funny this came up, if you go look up the sealant for an FD it shows the R2Y1 number

but the point was that Permatex has good new stuff, but they also have a ton of old junk, and B Mazda is using something that is $12 a tube retail, which makes it worth looking at.