Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

The recent interest and demand surge in '80 and '90 sports cars has piqued my interest. I suspect I'm not alone. While the obvious valuation maxima is for a zero mile version of mechanically virgin and particularly limited and special edition (e.g. CYM, R1/R2, RZ, et.), these are unicorns. ****, they may even be multi-horned unicorns at this point.

Which brought me to the question at hand. While model-year, mileage, edition, overall condition, and (to a lesser degree) exterior/interior color and transmission are relatively immutable, how do we factor in modification levels and associated valuations?

• Is it possible that some level of modification could actually add to a car's value... especially if retrofitting of later production year OEM improvements (e.g. split-prone boost outlet tubes, coolant swirl pots, inadequate heat management, et.)?
• How do historically 'enthusiast community' vetted / proven (and perhaps de rigueur) mild/PBU modification such as the FD's "2 out of 3" upgrades or the triple advantage of addressing downpipe design improve valuation?
• Does build archiving (e.g. Forum Build thread or Youtube equivalent) substantially increase valuation in it's apparent historic mechanical transparency? Is there a relationship with the quality of build archiving and valuation for highly modified cars?
• At the 3rd Sigma of modification continuum (e.g. Messrs Logan, Marzzei, Dahm, et), does archiving become the predominant valuation factors outside of actual performance?

This penultimate question was the true genesis of this thread for me. I committed to the mechanical point of no (pristine-valuation) return decades ago with my FD. Recently 'pheonix'ed' valuations have had me musing on the resulting real cost of these choices. But I'd love to hear community perspective on how they would value modifications.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Hi Carlos,

Modifications will be valued by those that understand/appreciate or desire the mods otherwise they will devalue the car. That said if I'm buying a low mileage car I don't want any mods and I suspect most would agree.

So the less complicated the mod the more it will be understood or the larger the market for the car/mod will be.

Basic mods:
The OEM DP is fine on low mileage cars and on higher mileage cars replacing the DP can go wrong: a stud may break now you must pull turbos and any # of things can go wrong from there. Maybe the DP has a bad flange causing an exhaust leak down the road or the hardware isn't replaced etc... causing issues down the road. Bottomline: Higher mileage car I want a DP, low mileage car I don't. The same can be said for a stereo, fuel mods, alarms etc...etc... basically the more things you must pull apart to mod the more problems that may arise.

This list is hard to argue with:
Quality aluminum AST
Quality and good fitting radiator like a davis etc
Quality catback
Boost gauge
PFC
Quality wheels, brakes, coilovers, sways, sway mounts, smic/vmic (must keep ac) etc... or basic easy to install quality/proven mods.

Always keep receipts and original parts.

Once you mess with the OEM midcat (boost starts spiking or going up) you will likely go further with ported wg, bigger or bored injectors etc.... these all could cause a bigger potential of lowering value than basic bolt on mods.

The more extreme the mods: single turbo, bridge port, heavy fuel mods etc.... most definitely lower the value.

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

I think the answer to those questions depends on the buyer and the intended use. Before prices went up, I think people were buying RX7's because they were a good bang-for-the-buck sportscar at $10k-20k USD. I think those buyers appreciated mods because it was assumed mods improved the performance. I think lately there's less argument that you're getting the best performance $25k-60k USD can buy, so more of the buyers are interested in styling and rarity and '1990s JDM supercar' nostalgia. I don't think most of today's buyers appreciate mods, because I don't think RX7s today are seeing as many miles or track events as they did 10-20 years ago.


I agree with Fritz's thoughts about mods, some are risky when done wrong and it's hard to prove if the previous owner did them right. I think build archives are a good idea for highly modified cars like yours, they can help show which parts of an in-depth build were done well. I personally think videos showing dyno pulls and track runs are as important as the build documentation. Installing a lot of expensive parts on a car doesn't guarantee it will run well or perform well, even if a professional shop does the work.

mr2peak

Condition trumps mods and miles. If it's a nicely modded car, it's worth good money to someone looking for a modified car. If it's a stock car, it's worth good money for a stock car buyer.

Only time mods really impact price is when they are done poorly, or done on a super low milage car. Very well built modified cars can also sell for a premium, just don't expect a collector to grab it.

If someone wants to buy your nice single turbo car and offers less because it's modified, ask them why they are looking for a single turbo car. If they want a nice single turbo conversion, then they pay for it, or they can have a stock car that they claim they would prefer. Modified "hot rod" classic cars sell for good money, same is true. Hell, JDM cars are known as tuner cars, it's the mod potential that makes them fun! Who honestly prefers a stock car? It's great for a show, to park look at, but I'll take a modified car over a stock one to drive any day.

Mods don't reduce value. Crappy work does.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

I think stock will hold its value best, like it's always done at Christies or Mecum auctions. That said, people who know about these cars will always look for a downpipe, aluminum AST and radiator.

In 20 years, I'm not sure if any one is going to give too much of a **** about the fast and furious. An Amemiya or FEED car may be a different story, but one built by someone in their garage? In 2040, I'd rather see a stock FD with low miles and details like a battery box lid, than a flared out molded together car with carbon fiber everything and a giant single turbo..

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

This is always a tricky one.

I think a lot of the appeal in modding a car is doing it yourself - you get the car stock, you research and pick out exactly the mods you want, and you get that thrill of "wow this is much faster now!" when you put them on.

But some people prefer a turn-key car - all the work is done, just get in and drive.

I think having a documented build is key to getting the most out of a heavily modified car. I think that's a lot of how David Mazzei got a good return on his.

Also there's no way someone will make money on a heavily modified car. I love when people add up all the receipts and tack it onto the value - nope it don't work like that.

In some cases it can make sense to de-mod the car - sell the mods off, put stock parts back on.

Every car is different, though.

BTW, I'll give you $5000 cash for your car, Carlos, $6k if you deliver to Pensacola

Dale

mr2peak

In 2040 I'd rather drive a widebody single turbo than a stock FD

Natey

iTrader: (19)

Haha, I'm sure it'll be less expensive that that stock low mile one I mentioned. Don't forget to factor in the cost of a 2040 rotary engine rebuild on a high mile single turbo project car from 20 years prior.

Manny_Apex

iTrader: (1)

As an owner of a highly modified desirable car, I'd definitely agree with all the points you guys made and this is why I value my car on the lower end of what they're going for currently. The number of prospective FD buyers these days is small, and of those interested in modified cars is substantially smaller because of the reasons you all listed. I like to think most of the people who modify them do so because they intend to keep the car forever (as was my intent) but the reality is if you enjoy the car for what it is, do you really need to modify it? I don't regret my decision whatsoever because this car makes me giggle like a 5 year old every time I press the go fast pedal. At the same time the mileage never would've allowed it to be one of those high value multi-horn unicorn cars you gents are referring to so I figured 'why not'.

With all that being said, what do you guys make of this listing? I have a few thoughts...but I never expected that when I looked under the hood. Go on, take a peak.
1993 Mazda RX-7 Turbo - $79,995 - CarGurus

mr2peak

All bark no bite. Crazy to drive a wide body car with a stock engine. Engine mods are easier to change to your liking compared to paint and bodywork

Manny_Apex

iTrader: (1)

When I saw the price, I assumed it was some crazy high hp build from some super famous car collection or something like that. When I saw the engine was stock, I had to re-evaluate how I felt about the price. I figure
A) The owner is a fan of the car and never has any intention on selling (I worked at a motorcycle dealership and we had a 2017 H2R with a $300k price tag bc the owner loved seeing it on the showroom floor)
B) They are completely out of touch with the car market AND car enthusiasts.

Whatever the case I found it interesting and thought I'd share.

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Shoot, in light of Dale's offer for my car, that unobtanium-level battery cover may be worth more than my car!!

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Absolutely delusional price, if you ask me. Even if the irreversible body mods didn't subtract from the value, I don't think anyone is getting that price for a 1993 with 62k miles. And who adds overfenders and still runs 225 width front tires?

Someone recently claimed that you can still get the battery cover, it's pretty cheap.

twinturborx7pete

iTrader: (3)

As an owner of a slightly revered unicorn, a Type RZ, I'd have to say that keeping the car stock is good if you plan to try and sell it down the road. Personally, having owned 3 prior RX-7s, I know that nothing drives like these cars do. While I don't plan to ever go single turbo, and like the fact that my stock twins run flawlessly, I'm more interested in going OEM+.

I think updating the 90s car into a safer car isn't a bad decision. Upgrading the headlights to LED, upgrading the braking system, better wheels and tires, and adding a little more cooling efficiency isn't something that I think someone would look at as a bad thing.

Yes, going crazy widebody (which I hate) and all of those instafads really annoys me. The reality is though, do you really "care" about the value of your car if you don't plan to sell it? Nobody is owning these as their "only car" anymore.

That said, I've owned Porsches, BMWs, AMGs, etc... their cool and all (and I'd own another Porsche 911 Turbo if the wife lets me) but really, most of these other cars seem disposable. They lack soul and cater to the masses.

But at the end of the day, it is your car, do what you want with it.

rdahm

iTrader: (6)

I do see a correlation between big videos and increases in offers to buy my cars. So its more of the relatability i guess. I certainly dont build sellable cars, they are more like beta testing drivetrains with doors on them. Im playing with building my 10ae in a way that would be a desirable car to collectors, mostly myself though. But thats about it. the 3 rotor is a complete piece of **** chassis, the 4 rotor is a prototype, the rotary corvette is surprisingly my most polished car but i dont think anyone would want that. again unless i start winning races with it it .