Key blank drama, isolated incident or are times changing that much?
11-13-23, 08:49 AM
#1
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Key blank drama, isolated incident or are times changing that much?
Have a little rant and want to see if anybody else has run into the same issue as me. I ordered a couple key blanks because when I imported my car it only came with one. So I ordered another Efini blank and a old school "toilet bowl" one for nostalgic purposes because that's what my R1 had.
I am familiar with Dale's thread on the keys here DaleClark's all about FD locks and keys - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum, I am also not a newcomer to this stuff as those who know me know I've built cars for years as well as being a master tech for dealerships for years as well. I never thought it would be so hard to get copies made of a key blank these days.
So first thing I did was look for my key code which I couldn't find. Don't know if its because its RHD or it isn't in the same spot as USDM cars. I would rather have the blanks cut off the code because used keys can sometimes not be the best to cut off of due to the wear but this wasn't an option. Lucky for me the car is fairly low miles (about 46,000) and my current key is in pretty good shape.
I went down to my local Mazda dealer and ask the parts kid if he could cut me some keys, he said sure so I put the keys on the counter and he froze up. He asked why one was already cut. I told him that was the key I wanted the others to be copied from. He thought I was talking about black magic here. He said he had never heard of "copying" keys. All he could do is stick a new key in the machine he had and punch in the key code. That was the extent to his knowledge. The parts manager came out and saw what was going on and told me they no longer have manual key cutters and that is how most dealerships were going. So after calling around to the other Dealerships around me, same deal. They only cut off key codes now.
So I decided to find a local locksmith which proved to be a difficult task. Everything around me is mobile, no longer have physical offices. Of the 5 I called, 3 couldn't do it because they didn't have the equipment to copy "older keys" and the other two quoted $120 to cut two key blanks........
I always see the key stations in Home depot in Lowes so I figured that may be an option but I don't have the most faith in those employees. All but two of the ones I went to only have the automated machines where you stick your current key in and it copies it from that and does it all right there. They don't carry old Mazda key blanks and the manual stations I found the employees won't cut key blanks you provide and would have to special order old Mazda key blanks "if they were still available."
So then I went to old trusty Ace hardware. Even though they cut keys there, they will not touch blanks you bring in, only blanks provided by them just like the big box stores. They also looked up the car and said they can't get the key anymore anyway. If they could it may take up to 3 months to get a blank in if they can track it down in another warehouse. Having heard my discussion with the employee at the key counter, another employee pulled me aside and gave me the run down of the secret code of lost arts. He told me that many of the Ace Hardware employees are semi-retired and only work one or two days a week. Some stores have one person that doesn't particularly agree with the company policy and have no issue cutting key blanks that people bring in, the trick is finding these legends.
So after six months of trying to get my personal schedule to line up with one of the three stores I found that have people willing to cut me a key, one of the guys that usually only works Tuesdays let me know he was going to be working one Sunday this month. So the wife and I took the FD out for a spin to run some errands and finally get keys cut. He was happy to help out finally but was caught during the process of cutting my keys by the manager who was halfway ok with it, I'm sure this isn't the first time but they did have to print me a piece of paper saying I would not hold them liable if the keys didn't work. She also said the prices for having personal key blanks cut just went up to $20 a key. Outrageous but I was willing to pay it given I had already waited 6 months and it was a third of what a locksmith would charge. After finishing, the key cutter said he would walk me up to the register and let the clerk know since they didn't have a UPC number for customer key blanks for $20 each. He whispered something to the clerk and to my relief he had them range up for $5 a key which is 100% acceptable. He gave me a wink and I slipped him a tip and we were off.
So is this just an issue in my area (Tampa) or are others having to jump through hoops to get simple keys copied? I'm halfway looking to buy an old key cutting machine so I don't have to deal with this down the road and possibly help the community with old cars or importing old cars, I just don't have much storage space left at the house. I still have a Nismo key blank that are not cheap to replace that the wife wants cut for her S14 but needs somebody that is really good at it since its technically not for her car.
I am familiar with Dale's thread on the keys here DaleClark's all about FD locks and keys - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum, I am also not a newcomer to this stuff as those who know me know I've built cars for years as well as being a master tech for dealerships for years as well. I never thought it would be so hard to get copies made of a key blank these days.
So first thing I did was look for my key code which I couldn't find. Don't know if its because its RHD or it isn't in the same spot as USDM cars. I would rather have the blanks cut off the code because used keys can sometimes not be the best to cut off of due to the wear but this wasn't an option. Lucky for me the car is fairly low miles (about 46,000) and my current key is in pretty good shape.
I went down to my local Mazda dealer and ask the parts kid if he could cut me some keys, he said sure so I put the keys on the counter and he froze up. He asked why one was already cut. I told him that was the key I wanted the others to be copied from. He thought I was talking about black magic here. He said he had never heard of "copying" keys. All he could do is stick a new key in the machine he had and punch in the key code. That was the extent to his knowledge. The parts manager came out and saw what was going on and told me they no longer have manual key cutters and that is how most dealerships were going. So after calling around to the other Dealerships around me, same deal. They only cut off key codes now.
So I decided to find a local locksmith which proved to be a difficult task. Everything around me is mobile, no longer have physical offices. Of the 5 I called, 3 couldn't do it because they didn't have the equipment to copy "older keys" and the other two quoted $120 to cut two key blanks........
I always see the key stations in Home depot in Lowes so I figured that may be an option but I don't have the most faith in those employees. All but two of the ones I went to only have the automated machines where you stick your current key in and it copies it from that and does it all right there. They don't carry old Mazda key blanks and the manual stations I found the employees won't cut key blanks you provide and would have to special order old Mazda key blanks "if they were still available."
So then I went to old trusty Ace hardware. Even though they cut keys there, they will not touch blanks you bring in, only blanks provided by them just like the big box stores. They also looked up the car and said they can't get the key anymore anyway. If they could it may take up to 3 months to get a blank in if they can track it down in another warehouse. Having heard my discussion with the employee at the key counter, another employee pulled me aside and gave me the run down of the secret code of lost arts. He told me that many of the Ace Hardware employees are semi-retired and only work one or two days a week. Some stores have one person that doesn't particularly agree with the company policy and have no issue cutting key blanks that people bring in, the trick is finding these legends.
So after six months of trying to get my personal schedule to line up with one of the three stores I found that have people willing to cut me a key, one of the guys that usually only works Tuesdays let me know he was going to be working one Sunday this month. So the wife and I took the FD out for a spin to run some errands and finally get keys cut. He was happy to help out finally but was caught during the process of cutting my keys by the manager who was halfway ok with it, I'm sure this isn't the first time but they did have to print me a piece of paper saying I would not hold them liable if the keys didn't work. She also said the prices for having personal key blanks cut just went up to $20 a key. Outrageous but I was willing to pay it given I had already waited 6 months and it was a third of what a locksmith would charge. After finishing, the key cutter said he would walk me up to the register and let the clerk know since they didn't have a UPC number for customer key blanks for $20 each. He whispered something to the clerk and to my relief he had them range up for $5 a key which is 100% acceptable. He gave me a wink and I slipped him a tip and we were off.
So is this just an issue in my area (Tampa) or are others having to jump through hoops to get simple keys copied? I'm halfway looking to buy an old key cutting machine so I don't have to deal with this down the road and possibly help the community with old cars or importing old cars, I just don't have much storage space left at the house. I still have a Nismo key blank that are not cheap to replace that the wife wants cut for her S14 but needs somebody that is really good at it since its technically not for her car.
11-13-23, 09:18 AM
#2
For a USDM FD, and probably any USDM Mazda, Ray Crowe should be able to order you a new key with just your VIN #. My used FD has relatively low miles, but the keys it came with were pretty worn out, and I had similar issues getting my old keys copied locally. Anyway, brother Ray hooked me up with a brand new set of OEM FD keys for <$20. Not sure if he can do the same with a JDM import, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
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11-13-23, 09:45 AM
#3
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For a USDM FD, and probably any USDM Mazda, Ray Crowe should be able to order you a new key with just your VIN #. My used FD has relatively low miles, but the keys it came with were pretty worn out, and I had similar issues getting my old keys copied locally. Anyway, brother Ray hooked me up with a brand new set of OEM FD keys for <$20. Not sure if he can do the same with a JDM import, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
11-13-23, 11:58 AM
#4
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I actually did run this by Ray but he did not know about the key codes for JDM RHD. I got my toilet bowl key blank from him along with a few other parts. I reached out to one of the vendors on this site that has a lot of experience with RHD and he also said he did not know of any codes for RHD. This honestly surprises me because why would we have key codes only in the United States?
oh and if its the original key it will have the code on it too
in the US to get the key code you run the vin in a different database, its not in the parts catalog. we don't have access to the Japanese version of that
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boostin13b (11-13-23)
11-13-23, 12:11 PM
#5
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you might pull out the lock cylinder on the drivers side, and see if the code is on it. if you got any paperwork with the car it might be on there too, its a 5 digit number, usually starts with a 5 or a 1
oh and if its the original key it will have the code on it too
in the US to get the key code you run the vin in a different database, its not in the parts catalog. we don't have access to the Japanese version of that
oh and if its the original key it will have the code on it too
in the US to get the key code you run the vin in a different database, its not in the parts catalog. we don't have access to the Japanese version of that
11-13-23, 12:35 PM
#6
Ban Peak
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Key is an Efini key but probably not original since it does not have the code on it. I'll have to check the lock cylinder next time I'm in there. I would like to get new handles since mine have the typical scratches and wear on them. I wish somebody made some Carbon replacements and not just overlays like FEED
I haven't had a car key cut in a long time but the last time I did it was done at the Mazda dealer and it was a perfect fit. $120 for two keys is outrageous but I think your issue was calling. You'd have better luck walking into a storefront lock and key shop if you could find one.
Locksmithing is becoming a lost art though, I manage a team at work and whenever we have to hire it takes 6-12 months to find one qualified candidate. The skilled pool is dwindling and there are plenty of hacks out there so it's crucial to choose wisely.
11-13-23, 01:50 PM
#7
I see door single lock key sets for about UD$50 on Buyee from time to time, that come with two keys cut, I see single uncut keys range from $10 to $25.
I have not had any issue with Canadian Tire and other key shops having blanks that work on RHD, so I am assuming they are generic mazda blanks that maybe worked on other in period mazda cars.
I have had the local independent shop rejuvenate ignition cylinders without an original key. Whether they find a key a code, or just do it by feel, I don't know.
I bought a bag of keys out of Thailand that look RX7, but were actually RX8 (so missing a channel). The seller replaced with a bag of efeni keys.
I see complete used key sets (ignition, doors and hatch) for C$250~350 on Buyee from time to time. Usually, pick them up when they show up in the low range.
I see demand of about three sets a year from people whose cars were broken into.
Two instance where the cylinder was drilled out and people were using screwdrivers as ignition keys.
If you are desperate I can sell you one such customized ignition.
(Supply your own screwdriver.)
I have not had any issue with Canadian Tire and other key shops having blanks that work on RHD, so I am assuming they are generic mazda blanks that maybe worked on other in period mazda cars.
I have had the local independent shop rejuvenate ignition cylinders without an original key. Whether they find a key a code, or just do it by feel, I don't know.
I bought a bag of keys out of Thailand that look RX7, but were actually RX8 (so missing a channel). The seller replaced with a bag of efeni keys.
I see complete used key sets (ignition, doors and hatch) for C$250~350 on Buyee from time to time. Usually, pick them up when they show up in the low range.
I see demand of about three sets a year from people whose cars were broken into.
Two instance where the cylinder was drilled out and people were using screwdrivers as ignition keys.
If you are desperate I can sell you one such customized ignition.
(Supply your own screwdriver.)
Last edited by Redbul; 11-13-23 at 01:55 PM.
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11-13-23, 03:09 PM
#9
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I see door single lock key sets for about UD$50 on Buyee from time to time, that come with two keys cut, I see single uncut keys range from $10 to $25.
I have not had any issue with Canadian Tire and other key shops having blanks that work on RHD, so I am assuming they are generic mazda blanks that maybe worked on other in period mazda cars.
I have had the local independent shop rejuvenate ignition cylinders without an original key. Whether they find a key a code, or just do it by feel, I don't know.
I bought a bag of keys out of Thailand that look RX7, but were actually RX8 (so missing a channel). The seller replaced with a bag of efeni keys.
I see complete used key sets (ignition, doors and hatch) for C$250~350 on Buyee from time to time. Usually, pick them up when they show up in the low range.
I see demand of about three sets a year from people whose cars were broken into.
Two instance where the cylinder was drilled out and people were using screwdrivers as ignition keys.
If you are desperate I can sell you one such customized ignition.
(Supply your own screwdriver.)
I have not had any issue with Canadian Tire and other key shops having blanks that work on RHD, so I am assuming they are generic mazda blanks that maybe worked on other in period mazda cars.
I have had the local independent shop rejuvenate ignition cylinders without an original key. Whether they find a key a code, or just do it by feel, I don't know.
I bought a bag of keys out of Thailand that look RX7, but were actually RX8 (so missing a channel). The seller replaced with a bag of efeni keys.
I see complete used key sets (ignition, doors and hatch) for C$250~350 on Buyee from time to time. Usually, pick them up when they show up in the low range.
I see demand of about three sets a year from people whose cars were broken into.
Two instance where the cylinder was drilled out and people were using screwdrivers as ignition keys.
If you are desperate I can sell you one such customized ignition.
(Supply your own screwdriver.)
11-13-23, 03:15 PM
#10
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
You can get a pair of brand new door handles shipped to you from Japan for under $200. the catch is that they are handles only and you have to swap over your key cylinders and wiring.
I haven't had a car key cut in a long time but the last time I did it was done at the Mazda dealer and it was a perfect fit. $120 for two keys is outrageous but I think your issue was calling. You'd have better luck walking into a storefront lock and key shop if you could find one.
Locksmithing is becoming a lost art though, I manage a team at work and whenever we have to hire it takes 6-12 months to find one qualified candidate. The skilled pool is dwindling and there are plenty of hacks out there so it's crucial to choose wisely.
I haven't had a car key cut in a long time but the last time I did it was done at the Mazda dealer and it was a perfect fit. $120 for two keys is outrageous but I think your issue was calling. You'd have better luck walking into a storefront lock and key shop if you could find one.
Locksmithing is becoming a lost art though, I manage a team at work and whenever we have to hire it takes 6-12 months to find one qualified candidate. The skilled pool is dwindling and there are plenty of hacks out there so it's crucial to choose wisely.
I did look around for store fronts that do walk in key cutting which was a big fail. Like I said, I could only track down a hand full of them. Any place that was a locksmith and used to be a physical location all went mobile when covid hit and never went back to having a store front. Most other places that claim to have key cutting had the automated machines or was the stores I mentioned above. The 3 Mazda dealers that are within 45 minutes of me all said they don't copy keys any longer, only use the machine for key codes.
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11-13-23, 03:56 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Luckily I got it handled and good to know that some dealerships still keep the old machines around. I contacted the old Nissan dealership I used to work at and they don't copy them any longer either.
11-13-23, 06:35 PM
#13
A good locksmith should be able to make an exact copy. I had the same issue with the key machines and once I went to a local locksmith they made me new keys and fixed my old ones.
They said the new machines need constant calibration. I don't know if that's true but I do know my keys work now lol
They said the new machines need constant calibration. I don't know if that's true but I do know my keys work now lol
11-13-23, 09:34 PM
#14
The last time I needed a key made, Slaters Hardware in Lancaster, Ohio is the first, last and only place I go. Every single car I've owned, plus any that my mom ever owned when I was growing up had keys made there. Most locksmiths are understandably iffy about customer-supplied key blanks because of the wisdom of George Carlin applying to the general populace (people are f**king dumb). Fortunately, one of the guys there, Lee, owned two FCs back in the 80s/90s and I've known him since I was a kid. Plus, he got to see my 20B too, so there was no worries about what I know. When I came in needing keys cut for my Expedition, they had zero qualms about using the blanks I supplied.
If they're in the original Mazda packaging with part numbers, or you have an invoice with each part number, it shouldn't be a problem.
If they're in the original Mazda packaging with part numbers, or you have an invoice with each part number, it shouldn't be a problem.
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11-14-23, 05:25 PM
#16
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