How to value your FD
#726
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
I think the reason the bone stock cars are commanding such a premium is the buyers buying them aren't thinking about driving them they are thinking about refurbishing and storing etc...
PS One thing is for certain if you can't sell your FD fast just list it on BAT and let the chips fall where they may
PS One thing is for certain if you can't sell your FD fast just list it on BAT and let the chips fall where they may
It would appear that most FD buyers currently are looking for resale value and/or an addition to their collections. I would hazard to guess that most people don't have big-time collections, but perhaps a few might. The RX-7, as rightly pointed out by Fritz, is a tremendous collectible. It's numbers, relative to anything made in 1993 are hugely impressive, for starters. It was as fast, or faster, than just about anything on the road and even more impressive on the track. Add to that, it's the last of it's kind and really and truly is one of the most unique cars you will ever find. I mean, it's got triangles that spin around in a peanut for crying out loud! What other car has that!? As an added bonus, it's arguably one of the most beautiful cars ever made. This makes for an awesome collector's car and it seems that's what most people are buying them for in the current market.
As for resellers, I don't really have any beef with guys like Fritz, or Snook, or anyone else for that matter. In most cases these guys are actually performing a service of sorts for the community by buying a car that needs some work, doing that work and selling the car for what it's truly worth. In some other cases, it maybe doesn't allow someone on the lower end of the budget scale to get into an RX-7, because a reseller will have cash ready in hand and jump on something in that category, without any hesitation.
As someone who can't afford titanium exhausts and Spirit R seats, I kind of feel for them in these cases because I know the feeling of being desperate to own an RX-7. Only through a few good years at work was I able to become a proud owner of an FD and I just wonder if the days of the "little guy" buying into this awesome club of RX-7 owners is passed. If that's the case, I am a benefactor of that as my RX-7 is certainly worth more than the "little guy" can afford, so I am aware of that and honestly speaking, I of course want to see the value of my car increase more and more.
Having said that, I am not sure I can afford a second FD any time in the near future because values are going up steadily and I'd love to have a bone stock and clean car to be able to experience an FD in it's purest form. I've only ever driven two FD's. One was a test drive, on a car that had been upgraded to a T04Z turbo and my own car, which came with a GT4088R. For obvious reasons, neither of these cars are great examples of what the car was intended to be by Mazda. I'd like to experience that one day.
Nick
#727
Full Member
Glad you like it,Gordon.
Yeah, the ‘16 & ‘17 cars fetched some good money, more than I expected to be honest. Of course, this is only partial but an indicator nonetheless.
There are are also some other interesting data points. Thus far, only manual cars are represented in the database. Also, there is only ONE car sold which was an upgraded single turbo. The vast majority of cars sold are with stock turbos or maybe ‘99 Spec, with one respondent having a BNR setup.
It would appear that a modified FD may not be so commonly sold in this day and age. However, there are three cars thus far which you may consider “highly modified” with more than “$10k in bolt on’s” and all three of them sold for north of $20k.
So, while modified FD’s aren’t moving as often it seems, the value is still there.
I’d like to reach a point where we’ve got 100 or more respondents so we can begin to draw some meaningful conclusions and even plot price over time and maybe even predict where the future values will be with empirical data.
Nick
Yeah, the ‘16 & ‘17 cars fetched some good money, more than I expected to be honest. Of course, this is only partial but an indicator nonetheless.
There are are also some other interesting data points. Thus far, only manual cars are represented in the database. Also, there is only ONE car sold which was an upgraded single turbo. The vast majority of cars sold are with stock turbos or maybe ‘99 Spec, with one respondent having a BNR setup.
It would appear that a modified FD may not be so commonly sold in this day and age. However, there are three cars thus far which you may consider “highly modified” with more than “$10k in bolt on’s” and all three of them sold for north of $20k.
So, while modified FD’s aren’t moving as often it seems, the value is still there.
I’d like to reach a point where we’ve got 100 or more respondents so we can begin to draw some meaningful conclusions and even plot price over time and maybe even predict where the future values will be with empirical data.
Nick
Yep!
Lots of barn find examples.
Crazy market right now. As I mentioned it's a 15k car to me as I believe it will need some attention over the next few years IF driven but it likely won't be. There are probably 10 cars listed on this forum right now that you or me or any other enthusiast would buy before taking that plunge as we want cars that can be driven and are better deals (ie don't need 10k in maintenance lol). Once those cars are gone we'll see the values really climb. I'd say in 5 years or so.
I think the reason the bone stock cars are commanding such a premium is the buyers buying them aren't thinking about driving them they are thinking about refurbishing and storing etc...
PS One thing is for certain if you can't sell your FD fast just list it on BAT and let the chips fall where they may
Lots of barn find examples.
Crazy market right now. As I mentioned it's a 15k car to me as I believe it will need some attention over the next few years IF driven but it likely won't be. There are probably 10 cars listed on this forum right now that you or me or any other enthusiast would buy before taking that plunge as we want cars that can be driven and are better deals (ie don't need 10k in maintenance lol). Once those cars are gone we'll see the values really climb. I'd say in 5 years or so.
I think the reason the bone stock cars are commanding such a premium is the buyers buying them aren't thinking about driving them they are thinking about refurbishing and storing etc...
PS One thing is for certain if you can't sell your FD fast just list it on BAT and let the chips fall where they may
I wonder if this one is on the database?
#728
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
The database is intended to reflect the price a car sells for, not what it's listed for, as such it shouldn't be on the database until it's sold. In saying that, it's also a voluntary thing. We are not combing internet ads and putting cars in the database with their asking prices. We are relying on the community to voluntarily provide the details of the car they sold, including pricing, modifications, mileage and date of sale, so we can get an idea of what's going on in the market.
Nick
Nick
#729
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (10)
Another interesting thing to look at are intervals on BAT when no FDs have been listed. It seems like when there are gaps, the first or second cars that come up sell for more money, all other things being equal. Last spring when the FD market was heating up, the cars that sold later in the cycle, or when multiple FDs were listed, seemed (to me) to go for slighly lower money. Not sure if there's any correlation, of just my gut feel?
#730
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
I've gone ahead and done a little bit of work in Google Sheets to aggregate some of the data. If you scroll down, under the entries, there are some total aggregate numbers and a few basic averages showing what a 1993's average cost is, for example. I've done the same for mileage.
LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Will add shortly an average price by year on a second page, as it's a bit cluttered on the same sheet...
Nick
LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Will add shortly an average price by year on a second page, as it's a bit cluttered on the same sheet...
Nick
Last edited by Brilliant7-LFC; 02-22-18 at 01:52 PM.
#731
Don't worry be happy...
iTrader: (1)
Meh... A very nice thing about a 100% stock FD is that it is extremely quiet. But that is as far as it goes because due to the pre-cat, the stock boost pattern is 10-8-10-8 (yes it goes back down) and the acceleration past 70 MPH is quite underwhelming. The FD is just waiting to be uncorked and IMO a third gen is best with a few bolt-ons and at stock boost. Relatively fast and you can beat on it all day without a care in the world.
Last edited by Montego; 02-22-18 at 02:37 PM.
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Spirit-RE (03-01-18)
#732
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Meh... A very nice thing about a 100% stock FD is that it is extremely quiet. But that is as far as it goes because due to the pre-cat, the stock boost pattern is 10-8-10-8 (yes it goes back down) and the acceleration past 70 MPH is quite underwhelming. The FD is just waiting to be uncorked and IMO a third gen is best with a few bolt-ons and at stock boost. Relatively fast and you can beat on it all day without a care in the world.
Here's a decent recipe from my SSM base that I sold last year and recently repurchased. This car is sooo much fun to drive
Suspension:
NEW koni yellows, NEW pillow tops, NEW H&R springs 1000
NEW front and rear RB sways 400
Upgraded front sway mounts 250
Exhaust:
M2 down pipe 300
SMB midcat 750 (or more)
PFS catback 500
Engine:
OEM original factory engine that pulls hard with good vacuum no leaks etc...
PFC with OLED commander 1000
PFS (ray wilson tuned) dynoed 343 at 14psi on dynojet 400
rear main seal replaced, oil pan resealed
99 twin turbos (less than 20k miles at this time) 2800
New coils, wires and hks twin power 500
SS OMP lines 150
Lots of misc hoses sensors and controls replaced
Cooling:
M2 medium smic 1000
M2 carbon fiber intake 500
r1/r2 dual oil coolers 400 (complete with all OEM fitting brackets and ducts)
Davis/mazdacomp radiator 600
Fuel:
1300cc secondaries 400
Supra TT pump 200
FPD deleted
All fuel lines replaced and upgraded (absolutely NO LEAKS)
Interior:
Overall very good condition 8 out of 10
AC needs a recharge (will work for about 12 months after charge so there is a leak somewhere in the system)
Nothing missing or broken or everything working as it should
99 steering wheel 300
94 consoles
New OEM shift **** 175
Nice Kenwood stereo system 500
Defi boost and water temp gauges in a dual center channel pod 400
Exterior:
R1 front lip 125
Shark tooth mod (see picture)
aluminum door handles 200
Rotary extreme hood struts 125
OVER 13k in UPGRADES plus labor $$$$$$
Reliability:
Simplified sequential so now there are only 4 solenoids including both turbo control (pressure and vacuum) in the rats nest along with the turbo control wastegate and wastegate precontrol. Double throttle removed and blocked off. The upper intake manifold can be removed in less than 5 minutes and from there everything is easy to get to so any needed solenoid, coil, OMP lines (SS OMP lines in place) repairs etc... are seamless. AST is deleted and done the right way with the nipple and line on top side of fill neck. LOTS of hours were put in to these mods which make it so much easier to work on and diagnose any future problems.
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Redbul (02-23-18)
#736
All out Track Freak!
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Today it would seem even barn find cars (not maintained/driven and just sitting in often times not the best places) with over 50k miles are selling for 27k which is really cool and absolutely without question puts this car in an elite classic/collector group.
A barn find might need:
gas tank cleaning
electric work and interior cleaning from rodents, insects etc... you know turn the AC or heater on and be like WTF....LOL
tires
brakes
rubber hoses/really anything rubber LOL
paint
etc...etc...
At the end of the day it could be a real PIA to deal with. I've owned lots of really beat up FDs (parts cars) and from a business stand point that car was very close to a parts car and it sold for 27k....
5 years ago that's a 12k FD so that puts some perspective on values or the fact that your doubling theory does hold true for some cars. Remember though in order for that car to be nice it needs: paint, tires, maint (hoses/belts/brakes etc...), faded plastic parts replaced (likely both interior and exterior parts) etc..... so in the end you are much better off spending 40k for a low mileage well kept car.
I do believe BAT is the best place to sell this type of car at this time. It seems to be gaining a lot of traction with collector types who just want to fill a spot (and there are clearly lots of spots for the FD at this time) and are not that particular.
I'd say overall values are up 10k for nice cars and 5k for standard variety. If you put the work in you may even get 15k more or say 45k for a low mileage nice 94. Prime example would be the SSM R2 (top 5 desired FD) that was bought by the dealer for 29k and sold for 42,500. That's a huge profit of 40% in 6 months on an old car, impressive to say the least. It's also to important to use this car as an example because we all know how hard the original owner tried to sell it, what he sold it for etc...etc... and it all happened over the course of 1 year. So really the value of that particular FD is 30 to 42k. In other words values are not up 12k in 12 months it's just a matter of paying too little/deal or paying too much/really want it. I don't expect a bunch of FDs to just suddenly start selling for 40k plus unless they are very low miles (under 20k). The only car currently for sale that I can think of at this time that could easily bring that sort of money is the CW PEG on ebay. Personally I'd much rather buy a car from ebay than BAT just because of the fees alone. On BAT the BUYER pays 5 percent. So really the 94 barn find sold for close to 27k.......OUCH!
Also lets not forget that sometimes sales are not finalized so there's always a chance we'll see the 94 touring listed again soon.
#737
Cheap Bastard
iTrader: (2)
I haven't seen any such indication regarding plateaus. I think Adam's car is evidence that #2's are cracking $30k+, and the silver r2 shows that #1's are higher than they've ever been.
The context of the thread and title are way off from where they started. Very average cars are asking +$20k, and that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about #2's parading as #1's.
The context of the thread and title are way off from where they started. Very average cars are asking +$20k, and that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about #2's parading as #1's.
#738
Rx7 Wagon
iTrader: (16)
Maybe you're right. Your car is/was great. The price reflected that. And, we could debate the in and outs of the ratings system. But, the mods and mileage would preclude from concourse contention, and that's what #1 means to me. There's plenty of debate about whether you'd even want a #1 rx7. But, reliability mods don't take home hardware at pebble.
Last edited by Narfle; 02-25-18 at 02:21 AM.
#739
Full Member
iTrader: (12)
I wanted to put forth an idea for discussion - a quick read didn't uncover a specific examination of this, so apologies if I missed it. I see lots of references here about valuing low mileage & low mileage cars bringing the big sale prices - what about higher mileage but fully restored FD's? We're starting to see more and more restoration/preservation builds of FD's with OEM/'99+ parts (several examples in the build section currently) and it seems to me that a FD is definitely one of those cars you'd want to think twice about purchasing if its just been sitting for long periods of time. I suppose with regular-enough intervals of exercising, some fears of dried out rubber, seals etc. could be abated, but we all know that not being driven (enough) is usually not the best treatment for many, if not all cars.
Think of it this way - the youngest USDM FD is now ~23 years old. With, say, 5k miles a year of pleasure driving as a fun car, you're at 115k miles which is still very low for a ~'95 car. I'd be curious to know what the opinions here are of pricing a restored/restomod 100k chassis mile car with new rubber throughout, retrimmed interior, fresh suspension, brakes, motor etc. vs. a sub-40k mile original/untouched 23-25 year old FD.
I'll admit to having a stake of at least curiosity in that I have a '94 with 88k on the chassis that I paid high teens for, and have been amassing a full suite of OEM, '99+ and tasteful mod parts in preparation for a full resto-mod process. I don't intend to sell the car for a long, long time if ever, but having spent a lot of time in the Supra world, where this same conversation has been nearly exhausted by now, I'm curious to see if the same trends apply to the FD. In the end, I think condition trumps mileage - just my opinion, worth what you paid for it - what's yours?
Think of it this way - the youngest USDM FD is now ~23 years old. With, say, 5k miles a year of pleasure driving as a fun car, you're at 115k miles which is still very low for a ~'95 car. I'd be curious to know what the opinions here are of pricing a restored/restomod 100k chassis mile car with new rubber throughout, retrimmed interior, fresh suspension, brakes, motor etc. vs. a sub-40k mile original/untouched 23-25 year old FD.
I'll admit to having a stake of at least curiosity in that I have a '94 with 88k on the chassis that I paid high teens for, and have been amassing a full suite of OEM, '99+ and tasteful mod parts in preparation for a full resto-mod process. I don't intend to sell the car for a long, long time if ever, but having spent a lot of time in the Supra world, where this same conversation has been nearly exhausted by now, I'm curious to see if the same trends apply to the FD. In the end, I think condition trumps mileage - just my opinion, worth what you paid for it - what's yours?
Last edited by GDSpeed; 02-25-18 at 02:01 PM.
#740
Put it in the microwave!
iTrader: (22)
Stop worrying too much about resale value and enjoy your car . I feel like alot of people are building/ restoring their FD just to resale later for the next guy to enjoy. But i do understand the feeling of knowing your car is worth alot of money and continue rising in worth is a wonderful thing
Last edited by kensin; 02-25-18 at 08:51 PM.
#741
Full Member
iTrader: (12)
Stop worrying too much about resale value and enjoy your car . I feel like alot of people are building/ restoring their FD just to resale later for the next guy to enjoy. But i do understand the feeling of knowing your car is worth alot of money and continue rising in worth is a wonderful thing
#742
All out Track Freak!
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I wanted to put forth an idea for discussion - a quick read didn't uncover a specific examination of this, so apologies if I missed it. I see lots of references here about valuing low mileage & low mileage cars bringing the big sale prices - what about higher mileage but fully restored FD's? We're starting to see more and more restoration/preservation builds of FD's with OEM/'99+ parts (several examples in the build section currently) and it seems to me that a FD is definitely one of those cars you'd want to think twice about purchasing if its just been sitting for long periods of time. I suppose with regular-enough intervals of exercising, some fears of dried out rubber, seals etc. could be abated, but we all know that not being driven (enough) is usually not the best treatment for many, if not all cars.
Think of it this way - the youngest USDM FD is now ~23 years old. With, say, 5k miles a year of pleasure driving as a fun car, you're at 115k miles which is still very low for a ~'95 car. I'd be curious to know what the opinions here are of pricing a restored/restomod 100k chassis mile car with new rubber throughout, retrimmed interior, fresh suspension, brakes, motor etc. vs. a sub-40k mile original/untouched 23-25 year old FD.
I'll admit to having a stake of at least curiosity in that I have a '94 with 88k on the chassis that I paid high teens for, and have been amassing a full suite of OEM, '99+ and tasteful mod parts in preparation for a full resto-mod process. I don't intend to sell the car for a long, long time if ever, but having spent a lot of time in the Supra world, where this same conversation has been nearly exhausted by now, I'm curious to see if the same trends apply to the FD. In the end, I think condition trumps mileage - just my opinion, worth what you paid for it - what's yours?
Think of it this way - the youngest USDM FD is now ~23 years old. With, say, 5k miles a year of pleasure driving as a fun car, you're at 115k miles which is still very low for a ~'95 car. I'd be curious to know what the opinions here are of pricing a restored/restomod 100k chassis mile car with new rubber throughout, retrimmed interior, fresh suspension, brakes, motor etc. vs. a sub-40k mile original/untouched 23-25 year old FD.
I'll admit to having a stake of at least curiosity in that I have a '94 with 88k on the chassis that I paid high teens for, and have been amassing a full suite of OEM, '99+ and tasteful mod parts in preparation for a full resto-mod process. I don't intend to sell the car for a long, long time if ever, but having spent a lot of time in the Supra world, where this same conversation has been nearly exhausted by now, I'm curious to see if the same trends apply to the FD. In the end, I think condition trumps mileage - just my opinion, worth what you paid for it - what's yours?
Here's an example. I sold this one last year for 22.5k (i paid 21k and drove it for a year or two). I'd say today it's probably a 27k FD if you really put in some effort to sell it. It sold it in 2 weeks because it's was a great deal.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...ained-1114006/
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 02-26-18 at 10:32 AM.
#743
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
The higher the miles the more variables. So no way to put any value on this conversation without using an example.
Here's an example. I sold this one last year for 22k (i paid 21k and drove it for a year or two). I'd say today it's probably a 27k FD if you really put in some effort to sell it. It sold it in 2 weeks because it's was a great deal.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...ained-1114006/
Here's an example. I sold this one last year for 22k (i paid 21k and drove it for a year or two). I'd say today it's probably a 27k FD if you really put in some effort to sell it. It sold it in 2 weeks because it's was a great deal.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...ained-1114006/
Care to add it to the database?
Nick
#746
Don't worry be happy...
iTrader: (1)
This:
I have always said that I bought my car for myself to enjoy and that I'm not a storage facility for the next guy.
But anyway, if you really want to know what extremely meticulously maintained but higher mileage FD's pricing is going to look like, look no further than the american 60's and early 70's muscle cars. From what I can tell low mileage cars that just about have been completely restored brings in the most cash but I've also noticed that if the entire car has been reworked the mileage takes a back seat. The same thing can also be said for completely restored and modded with quality components.
But note those cars are either 50 years old or close to it so overhauling them is a must and therefore those types bring in the most. FD's aren't that old yet so sellers can still rely on original parts with having done almost nothing to the car other than just driving them once every other sunday and still get a premium. But IMO those days are numbered and I'd say in about 10 years even a sub 10K mile FD is going to require a complete suspension overhaul and quite possibly more.
Stop worrying too much about resale value and enjoy your car . I feel like alot of people are building/ restoring their FD just to resale later for the next guy to enjoy. But i do understand the feeling of knowing your car is worth alot of money and continue rising in worth is a wonderful thing
But anyway, if you really want to know what extremely meticulously maintained but higher mileage FD's pricing is going to look like, look no further than the american 60's and early 70's muscle cars. From what I can tell low mileage cars that just about have been completely restored brings in the most cash but I've also noticed that if the entire car has been reworked the mileage takes a back seat. The same thing can also be said for completely restored and modded with quality components.
But note those cars are either 50 years old or close to it so overhauling them is a must and therefore those types bring in the most. FD's aren't that old yet so sellers can still rely on original parts with having done almost nothing to the car other than just driving them once every other sunday and still get a premium. But IMO those days are numbered and I'd say in about 10 years even a sub 10K mile FD is going to require a complete suspension overhaul and quite possibly more.
#747
old yella
iTrader: (50)
Stop worrying too much about resale value and enjoy your car . I feel like alot of people are building/ restoring their FD just to resale later for the next guy to enjoy. But i do understand the feeling of knowing your car is worth alot of money and continue rising in worth is a wonderful thing
id rather talk about how she entered oak tree at vir or how fast she approached the blind crest at midohio... than talk about how much shes worth at the round table...
#749
Considering selling my 94
Was wondering if you all wouldnt mind helping me price my FD as the market seems to be somewhat scewed to say the least. i have a black 94 FD w about 80k on the body, manual 5 speed w sun roof/ stock spoiler and tan interior. Condition is good for the age but paint and interior are original so normal wear in the driver side seat. For 25yr old paint it’s actually really pretty good.
The engine Was rebuilt by Pettit about 2yrs ago and is still on break in tune w roughly 3,500miles on it. I always wanted a reliable daily driver setup that I could easily convert over to a single turbo with higher hp down the road so cam (Owner at Pettit) suggested the non sequential twin route.
Engine is a street port non sequential twin turbo with upgraded fuel system (Primary rail/ injectors/ regulator and Supra pump),
rebuilt/ blueprinted turbos,
Power fc computer and hand held,
All major reliability mods/ Pettit pulleys/ Pettit twin intake w heat shield etc.,
stainless steel/ heat wrapped down pipe,
Car has Mazda (freshly painted red w black lettering😏 calipers and rotors. Exhaust is generic oversized muffler that need to be updated due to rust threw around the welds on the muffler.
Now I know this doesn’t go twords the value of the car but I’m giving who ever buys it all parts I purchased for it over the years which were never used and bought new.
rx7 store Vmount intercooler/radiator/ pipping,
turbo smart hypergate 45mm,
anodized purple pulley kit,
EMS stinger 2rotor cpu w harness,
Xcessive lower intake manifold,
as well as miscellaneous parts removed from the original engine when I had it rebuilt. Also have a spare set of stock rims w tires. Interior also has some upgrades like full (real) carbon fiber dash, shift ****, AEM boost gauge and wideband (sensor still needs to be mounted to exhaust). As for now that’s about all I can think of. Any information as what to list for would help. Also I’m in Florida and as far as I know all owners were in Florida so rust is no issue on this car. Accident free.
The engine Was rebuilt by Pettit about 2yrs ago and is still on break in tune w roughly 3,500miles on it. I always wanted a reliable daily driver setup that I could easily convert over to a single turbo with higher hp down the road so cam (Owner at Pettit) suggested the non sequential twin route.
Engine is a street port non sequential twin turbo with upgraded fuel system (Primary rail/ injectors/ regulator and Supra pump),
rebuilt/ blueprinted turbos,
Power fc computer and hand held,
All major reliability mods/ Pettit pulleys/ Pettit twin intake w heat shield etc.,
stainless steel/ heat wrapped down pipe,
Car has Mazda (freshly painted red w black lettering😏 calipers and rotors. Exhaust is generic oversized muffler that need to be updated due to rust threw around the welds on the muffler.
Now I know this doesn’t go twords the value of the car but I’m giving who ever buys it all parts I purchased for it over the years which were never used and bought new.
rx7 store Vmount intercooler/radiator/ pipping,
turbo smart hypergate 45mm,
anodized purple pulley kit,
EMS stinger 2rotor cpu w harness,
Xcessive lower intake manifold,
as well as miscellaneous parts removed from the original engine when I had it rebuilt. Also have a spare set of stock rims w tires. Interior also has some upgrades like full (real) carbon fiber dash, shift ****, AEM boost gauge and wideband (sensor still needs to be mounted to exhaust). As for now that’s about all I can think of. Any information as what to list for would help. Also I’m in Florida and as far as I know all owners were in Florida so rust is no issue on this car. Accident free.