How to value your FD
06-05-23, 04:51 AM
#5826
Rotary Enthusiast
Enjoy it. As long as front and rear are similar you're good to go. Just like a piston engine, you are looking for one or more cylinders / faces with a large difference, the actual numbers are less important that the % difference between the highest and lowest compression event.
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Redbul (06-05-23)
06-05-23, 07:31 AM
#5827
Ban Peak
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I could never sell an FD on BAT. I don't have the patience to indulge morons who have stupid questions or requests and yet they have no plans on bidding.
For this current listing, one guy asked "for the California buyers" if the smog equipment was still intact. My immediate thought was "well wtf do you think? The car has 7k miles and everything under the hood is stock" but yeah ask away ..
For this current listing, one guy asked "for the California buyers" if the smog equipment was still intact. My immediate thought was "well wtf do you think? The car has 7k miles and everything under the hood is stock" but yeah ask away ..
Compression numbers are BS, especially for a stock power level car. The dang thing starts well hot or it doesn't, if it doesn't hot start, a cold start is going to be problematic too! A good hot start and solid vacuum are all that you need to be informed to buy- it's a rotary and it will eventually fail, if it's modified that timeline will be advanced. At this point an engine rebuild is the cheap part of ownership, it's cheaper than paint, a black interior, or a single turbo kit + EMS, cooling, & supporting fuel.
How many guys have lost money on cars that were just fine because they had warm compression test in the 90's? It's rhetorical because we don't track it but it's something we see regularly on the auction sites. As long as you keep perpetuating the myths you're holding down values.
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06-05-23, 07:53 AM
#5828
The compression numbers thing has gotten so far out of hand. Take a look through some of the recent "warped seals" threads. Some of them go pretty in-depth on the topic. Hot starting and pulling vacuum is key. A compression test should be used as a baseline to check your engine health over time.
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06-05-23, 08:29 AM
#5829
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The compression numbers thing has gotten so far out of hand. Take a look through some of the recent "warped seals" threads. Some of them go pretty in-depth on the topic. Hot starting and pulling vacuum is key. A compression test should be used as a baseline to check your engine health over time.
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06-05-23, 01:24 PM
#5832
Ban Peak
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Many people lost engines in the late 90's and early 2000's due to a lack of proper fueling or tuning, their experiences stigmatized the 13B-REW. Failures happen now but are fewer and are usually a result of a build issue or a fault in setup, this forum serves as evidence.
The next time someone starts to talk about an unreliable/problematic rotary ask them what their direct experience has been.
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Neo (06-09-23)
06-05-23, 02:21 PM
#5834
Based on this limited poll (see below) , engine condition only ranks fourth among valuation criteria.
If the criteria were further weighted by considerations of recent commentary and auction results,
low mileage may have mutiples of importance of ranking over engine condition.
The recent "failed to met reserve" CYM may support this.
Although it seems to have a recent rebuild by a known shop, it failed to sell.
Was the somewhat higher than recent average mileage a leading factor?
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...tions-1160648/
If the criteria were further weighted by considerations of recent commentary and auction results,
low mileage may have mutiples of importance of ranking over engine condition.
The recent "failed to met reserve" CYM may support this.
Although it seems to have a recent rebuild by a known shop, it failed to sell.
Was the somewhat higher than recent average mileage a leading factor?
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...tions-1160648/
Last edited by Redbul; 06-05-23 at 02:24 PM.
06-08-23, 10:11 AM
#5835
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Based on this limited poll (see below) , engine condition only ranks fourth among valuation criteria.
If the criteria were further weighted by considerations of recent commentary and auction results,
low mileage may have mutiples of importance of ranking over engine condition.
The recent "failed to met reserve" CYM may support this.
Although it seems to have a recent rebuild by a known shop, it failed to sell.
Was the somewhat higher than recent average mileage a leading factor?
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...tions-1160648/
If the criteria were further weighted by considerations of recent commentary and auction results,
low mileage may have mutiples of importance of ranking over engine condition.
The recent "failed to met reserve" CYM may support this.
Although it seems to have a recent rebuild by a known shop, it failed to sell.
Was the somewhat higher than recent average mileage a leading factor?
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...tions-1160648/
The buyers of these super low mileage cars are willing to pay a huge amount for how bolts, couplers, exhaust, bottom seam, etc....look, in other words it's the minutiae that matters the most. The 93 black touring that sold for 137k was soooo much cleaner overall than this car which is why we may not see a record despite it being a rare SSM R2.
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j9fd3s (06-09-23)
06-08-23, 11:00 AM
#5836
I wonder if any of the actual museum FD (like in Hiroshima) would be concours ready?
We had a Japan import class at out local concours (Crescent Beach) a few years back.
No local FD was deemed good enough. Class was won by an FB.
Top honors went to a $30 million Ferrari.
The cars stood about 20 feet apart on the greens.
Good exposure, but that concours has not been revived post Covid.
(My insurer (Pellings) has been the sponsor. I am trying to get on the volunteer committee.)
Meanwhile, we have a lot of exciting and expensive winter builds slated for debut at our Sevens Day.
https://westcoastrotary.com/
We had a Japan import class at out local concours (Crescent Beach) a few years back.
No local FD was deemed good enough. Class was won by an FB.
Top honors went to a $30 million Ferrari.
The cars stood about 20 feet apart on the greens.
Good exposure, but that concours has not been revived post Covid.
(My insurer (Pellings) has been the sponsor. I am trying to get on the volunteer committee.)
Meanwhile, we have a lot of exciting and expensive winter builds slated for debut at our Sevens Day.
https://westcoastrotary.com/
Last edited by Redbul; 06-08-23 at 11:26 AM.
06-08-23, 09:07 PM
#5837
Exactly. What is jim thompson selling crate rew's for? $7500 Installed iirc. How much is a clutch and rear main seal job on a 911 of the same vintage, or god forbid an IMS failure? Sorry, but fd's aren't any more expensive to maintain or much more unreliable than your average foreign sports car, especially from that era.
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06-08-23, 11:34 PM
#5838
Exactly. What is jim thompson selling crate rew's for? $7500 Installed iirc. How much is a clutch and rear main seal job on a 911 of the same vintage, or god forbid an IMS failure? Sorry, but fd's aren't any more expensive to maintain or much more unreliable than your average foreign sports car, especially from that era.
When these cars were selling for the low teens to broke teenagers it made sense to worry about a $7k bill for an engine replacement. That was a decade ago. Only armchair, non-bidding idiots are fake-concerned about that now.
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06-09-23, 03:23 AM
#5839
Calling people names is not going to help.
People are going to continue to ask for compression figures, and sellers are going to be sideswipped by that
. Spend the $100 for a compression test before you list. If the figures are bad, sell somewhere else.
Each auction that goes off the rails hurts everyone's values.
Having a compression test in their back pocket could help sellers as well.
You know there are going to be guys that do Italian tune-ups on the way home from the pick-up point and will come limping back on one rotor to the seller raising cain.
People are going to continue to ask for compression figures, and sellers are going to be sideswipped by that
. Spend the $100 for a compression test before you list. If the figures are bad, sell somewhere else.
Each auction that goes off the rails hurts everyone's values.
Having a compression test in their back pocket could help sellers as well.
You know there are going to be guys that do Italian tune-ups on the way home from the pick-up point and will come limping back on one rotor to the seller raising cain.
Last edited by Redbul; 06-09-23 at 03:43 AM.
06-09-23, 08:33 AM
#5840
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Ah yes.. compression tests.. I'm not sure why this is even relevant on a vintage piece of kit such as our cars. I would be concerned with the esthetics of the vehicle at this point. If you can see it's lived a hard life, it won't matter what the compression numbers are going to say. You'll end up rebuilding the engine sooner than later.
I also worry about vehicles that have sat around hardly driven. You can pick up a hardly used FD, but you know perfectly well you'll be going into the project replacing almost everything mechanical. Cars cant sit around not being driven for long. Things seize up and don't lubricate the way they should. Seeing as how the vast majority of FD's are now 30yrs old, if the odo doesn't show at least 70-90k km's on the clock, I'd be really worried about everything on the vehicle.
As a reference point, when I picked up mine in 98, she had 48k km's on the clock. I bought it with hardly any mechanical knowledge. I knew the absolute basics. Never asked for compression test. She lived for the first 2-3yrs as a "daily" (with exception for winters of course). Managed to put an additional 50-60k in that short period of time. Around the 120-130k interval, she let go since I was fooling around with power output and didn't do any of the cooling mods that are absolutely necessary for the vehicle. The OEM rad broke and the engine overheated. That was that. Rebuild time. She was heavily reinforced since then since I was running a single turbo and when the rebuilder saw that, they threw everything at the engine to help withstand that type of abuse. It's been over 18yrs now since that's happened. Odo now reads 164k km's. Everything runs like a dream.
Another point, I picked up my RX8 R3 5yrs ago. She's a 2010 and when I picked her up, she had 53k km's on the clock. Did I ask for a compression test? Nope. Had them bring it into their lifts so I can take a look underneath. Looked under the hood. Made sure things checked out. She was all original with the exception of some BHR ignition coils and a Racing Beat cat back. You can tell she had a relatively easy life. 8yrs and only 53k km's on the clock. Pretty gentle life. However, I knew right away if I wanted the engine to last longer, I had to get rid of anything that would block or impede it. Otherwise, the car looked completely intact and rather mint. It's been 5yrs and she's now showing 103k km's on it. Runs like a dream..
Overall state of the vehicle is more critical than the "compression test".
I also worry about vehicles that have sat around hardly driven. You can pick up a hardly used FD, but you know perfectly well you'll be going into the project replacing almost everything mechanical. Cars cant sit around not being driven for long. Things seize up and don't lubricate the way they should. Seeing as how the vast majority of FD's are now 30yrs old, if the odo doesn't show at least 70-90k km's on the clock, I'd be really worried about everything on the vehicle.
As a reference point, when I picked up mine in 98, she had 48k km's on the clock. I bought it with hardly any mechanical knowledge. I knew the absolute basics. Never asked for compression test. She lived for the first 2-3yrs as a "daily" (with exception for winters of course). Managed to put an additional 50-60k in that short period of time. Around the 120-130k interval, she let go since I was fooling around with power output and didn't do any of the cooling mods that are absolutely necessary for the vehicle. The OEM rad broke and the engine overheated. That was that. Rebuild time. She was heavily reinforced since then since I was running a single turbo and when the rebuilder saw that, they threw everything at the engine to help withstand that type of abuse. It's been over 18yrs now since that's happened. Odo now reads 164k km's. Everything runs like a dream.
Another point, I picked up my RX8 R3 5yrs ago. She's a 2010 and when I picked her up, she had 53k km's on the clock. Did I ask for a compression test? Nope. Had them bring it into their lifts so I can take a look underneath. Looked under the hood. Made sure things checked out. She was all original with the exception of some BHR ignition coils and a Racing Beat cat back. You can tell she had a relatively easy life. 8yrs and only 53k km's on the clock. Pretty gentle life. However, I knew right away if I wanted the engine to last longer, I had to get rid of anything that would block or impede it. Otherwise, the car looked completely intact and rather mint. It's been 5yrs and she's now showing 103k km's on it. Runs like a dream..
Overall state of the vehicle is more critical than the "compression test".
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06-09-23, 08:44 AM
#5841
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yeah its like saying an Italian car has soul, the rotary has no low end torque, the corvette interior sucks, something something BMW and Teutonic etc its just something that every writer puts in a review (contractually?)
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06-09-23, 10:07 AM
#5842
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Calling people names is not going to help.
People are going to continue to ask for compression figures, and sellers are going to be sideswipped by that
. Spend the $100 for a compression test before you list. If the figures are bad, sell somewhere else.
Each auction that goes off the rails hurts everyone's values.
Having a compression test in their back pocket could help sellers as well.
You know there are going to be guys that do Italian tune-ups on the way home from the pick-up point and will come limping back on one rotor to the seller raising cain.
People are going to continue to ask for compression figures, and sellers are going to be sideswipped by that
. Spend the $100 for a compression test before you list. If the figures are bad, sell somewhere else.
Each auction that goes off the rails hurts everyone's values.
Having a compression test in their back pocket could help sellers as well.
You know there are going to be guys that do Italian tune-ups on the way home from the pick-up point and will come limping back on one rotor to the seller raising cain.
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Redbul (06-09-23)
06-09-23, 10:07 AM
#5843
Auto Enthusiast
Other than the compression test debate.. there's some discussion about the R models that could or should carry a "premium".
be interesting to see where this ends up compared to the BB FD that set the record. Timing obviously plays a part ( especially in an auction) but all other criteria considered.. its pretty much apples to apples - condition, mileage, original etc...
be interesting to see where this ends up compared to the BB FD that set the record. Timing obviously plays a part ( especially in an auction) but all other criteria considered.. its pretty much apples to apples - condition, mileage, original etc...
06-09-23, 11:58 AM
#5844
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Other than the compression test debate.. there's some discussion about the R models that could or should carry a "premium".
be interesting to see where this ends up compared to the BB FD that set the record. Timing obviously plays a part ( especially in an auction) but all other criteria considered.. its pretty much apples to apples - condition, mileage, original etc...
be interesting to see where this ends up compared to the BB FD that set the record. Timing obviously plays a part ( especially in an auction) but all other criteria considered.. its pretty much apples to apples - condition, mileage, original etc...
or you can have a MB or black touring which is still very much the apex predator, but it blends in more
i like the CYM myself, but there is absolutely everything right with having something more subtle as well
06-09-23, 03:34 PM
#5846
As I'm sure everyone here already knows, it sold for $148,000. Tbh I was bit disappointed because I was rooting for $160,000+
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-mazda-rx-7-99/
Time to go drive my FD!
Last edited by Montego; 06-09-23 at 03:58 PM.
06-09-23, 09:40 PM
#5849
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It’s insane how much these cars are selling for now. I should have held onto my SSM. The appreciation would have far outweighed the carry cost.
My biggest regret was not buying goodfellas’ black 93 (I think?) when it was up for sale around 2013. I got spooked by the mileage but ended up spending so much more on bringing my ~38k stock up to 100% DD.
My biggest regret was not buying goodfellas’ black 93 (I think?) when it was up for sale around 2013. I got spooked by the mileage but ended up spending so much more on bringing my ~38k stock up to 100% DD.
06-10-23, 09:48 AM
#5850
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It’s insane how much these cars are selling for now. I should have held onto my SSM. The appreciation would have far outweighed the carry cost.
My biggest regret was not buying goodfellas’ black 93 (I think?) when it was up for sale around 2013. I got spooked by the mileage but ended up spending so much more on bringing my ~38k stock up to 100% DD.
My biggest regret was not buying goodfellas’ black 93 (I think?) when it was up for sale around 2013. I got spooked by the mileage but ended up spending so much more on bringing my ~38k stock up to 100% DD.
It's insane what houses, stocks, meat etc.... are selling for
As long as governments/central banks keep expanding balance sheets the value of everything we own will continue to rise. CRAZY WORLD!!!!!
If you have money/own things, you grow rich and powerful if not you go broke and weak. Unfortunately, all those in power want more, more and more.
I suspect this madness will end in hitting the reset button or world war. I just hope the can is kicked down the road a little longer so my daughter can live in peace but from where I'm standing it's not looking good. The human cycle is truly a cycle and we will never change it's just what we are.
So, in the near term live, love and enjoy your best life, and keep your FD (and effin drive it, life is short), your house and whatever else you can get your hands on as long as you don't support it with debt because unlike the government you don't run a central bank, LOL!
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