mr2peak

Australia import duties are 10% customs and 10% GST, including the cost of shipping. USA is ~2.5%. Account for inflation and that puts it around $47k, not as far off as it sounds

KYPREO

And the killer, there is an additional 30% luxury car tax for every doĺlar over A$70K purchase price (inclusive of shipping, duties and GST).

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

Hmm. Maybe that will put a bit of a ceiling of S8 prices for when the cars become available to the US.

RX7gp

"94 that just sold on Cars&Bids for $39,500. 111K miles and some issues.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3oP...994-mazda-rx-7

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

^Thanks for posting, I often forget to check that site out. That car's been built & maintained by RP in Garland TX which is a huge plus. On the other end of the spectrum, this is copy pasta from the listing:

Known Flaws

• 2009 date code on the tires
• Rock chips on hood and front bumper (pictured in the gallery)
• Swirl marks in paint throughout vehicle
• Touch-up paint throughout vehicle
• Dent in driver's side door
• Scratches on driver's side front fender
• Ding in driver's side rear quarter panel
• Scratches on rear bumper
• Dent in passenger's side rear quarter panel
• Wear on driver's seat's outer bolster
• Scratches on interior plastic trim
• ABS light is occasionally illuminated
• Cruise control is inoperable
• Power antenna is inoperable
• Radio and air conditioning compressor work intermittently
• RPM gauge works intermittently
• Driver's side door hinge compartment is broken

RX7gp

yeah, it took me awhile to find it, but apparently about 35K miles on the RP rebuild. I guess not a bad deal given it's a '94, condition is pretty good overall and of course, the market is crazy now. No pics of the undercarriage though...

KYPREO

In a way, yes, because an aussie bidding on a very expensive car in Japan has to pay to almost as much as 40% more than bidders from other countries. That doesn't necessarily stop us though because cars just cost more here and we're used to it. Several of the GTRs that have sold for more than 40M JPY were imported into Australia. Works out at over A$700K landed and complied.

That said, by the time series 8s are available under the 25 year old rule, they could very well be double what they cost now regardless what aussies bid for them.

c0rbin9

iTrader: (2)

Very nice 80k-mile lightly modified R1 just sold on BaT for only $40k, not good timing with Christmas around the corner. It sold for $6k less than the recent red '94 with tan interior and sunroof, and that car had more miles and was in worse condition. FD prices seem to have plateaued ever since the run up during the summer. It will be interesting to see where we are next summer.

aplscrambles

iTrader: (7)

The Used Car Market Will Crash (msn.com)
We mostly already know this, but its every car from an f150 to a camry. Not just our precious rx7s. What I found interesting about this article is they say it will crash. If this logic holds true, I wonder if our FD values will level off starting next year, or drop back down a bit. Hard to predict anything these crazy *** days.

Jatt

iTrader: (2)

Doubt any 90's JDM, old Porsches, and other collectible cars will crash like the used car market. Think they're referring to mostly recent used daily driver cars or trucks which would only be a step above from a typical used car buyer and well below the level of a car enthusiast who would buy a collectible car.

I really, really do hope the RX7 market does crash though. Would be awesome.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the Camry market might crash, nobody is buying one of those because they want one.
the F150 market might crash, because the reduction in need/want for one is going to coincide with Ford actually making some, so they are going to have a ton of supply

people are buying Rx7's because they want one

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

YEP, no doubt everything is in a bubble and when the debt market crashes everything will get hammered but I suspect classic cars and other luxury items won't fall as far.

That said because this is a world wide issue govs will continue to print their way out trouble until inflation is completely out of control (over 100 percent) so I don't think it will happen for several years, I won't be surprised if we see a 200k FD and I'm sticking with my 100k FD prediction in 2022.

The fact that the fed hasn't already raised rates and stopped printing/buying debt says all we need to know about what they are actually going to do. In other words they can't raise rates because it would destroy the fragile propped up economy so they'll simply wait for the next excuse to print. Energy prices were stupid low and still low relatively speaking so you can expect them to rise = inflation, there's a labor shortage causing a wage war = inflation, all sorts of production issues (because of labor shortage/nobody wants to work when there are all these unemployment benefits and the pandemic policies are wreaking havoc) which messes with the supply chain = inflation, etc.... we have approx 7% inflation which is going to go higher blah blah blah but lets wait to do anything until March or June 22 in hopes that things get really bad out there so we can print more money and lower rates etc.....

It's a sh7t show caused by the entire world printing money and hoping for excuses to keep printing. We'll continue to deal with inflation until the debt bubble pops or govs and individuals can no longer afford to pay their debt. Already starting to happen here and there and when this thing goes it will make 07/08 crisis look like a cake walk.

PS: I know this is all doom and gloom but I can't think of anything that's going to save us from the natural course of fiat currency irresponsibility. Not sure how accurate this is but it makes my point: https://techstartups.com/2021/05/22/...eimar-germany/

aplscrambles

iTrader: (7)

Not talking about want or need. Talking about the outrageous current market pricing of all used vehicles including classics/collector cars. If y'all read the article, he references GT3s, which I would directly compare with our FD's--an instantly classic, overpriced, but brilliant driver's car. For the record, pretty sure lots of folks want f150s, lol. Look at Ford's sales figures or just take a look around next time you're out for a drive, chip shortage be damned.

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

When things get tough, go out to the shed and talk to your RX7 (s). He, or she, or they, will understand.

bossbattleRX7

Yes, I don't know what is going to happen to the RX-7 market in the next few years, but I completely agree with you in principle.

I have a Subaru Outback. Base model. We bought it in 2019. I believe sticker was $27,000 and change. The car never moves. We bought it during pre-covid times as a family hauler. In almost three years we have only driven it about 10,000 miles. I see them with well over 5 times the miles listed at close to $30,000. By that logic, our Outback can probably sell for at least $30,000. That's insane.

Subarus hold their value well, but a base Outback appreciating in value? This is clearly not a sustainable situation.

bossbattleRX7

That would be apples to oranges. The GT3 example is in reference to financing new vehicles for $50,000 over sticker. To be honest I don't even think that was the best example to use for this article. People have regularly overpaid for the 911 GT3 for years. As a matter of fact, as the author suggests, $50K over MSRP for a GT3 very well may be a bargain in this market. I don't think that would have been unheard of even five years ago.

They follow it up with this statement:

I read the KPMG report. It seems to reference run-of-the-mill used and new cars. They definitely don't mention enthusiast collector vehicles. This KPMG practice group doesn't even seem to cover that realm. They advise car companies. This report is more or less a sales pitch to prospective clients in the auto industry; the folks who sell new cars.

Lastly, it's important to note that RX-7 prices were on the upswing before COVID even hit. That was before stimulus policies or any of the other economic policies that led to the inflation of today. Was there a COVID bump? I think so, but it was a bump on a trend line that was already heading upward. Not saying that past results are a guaranteed indicator of future performance, but it's something to keep in mind.

We may see RX-7 and other collector car prices level off, rise, or drop in the next few years--no one knows. With that being said, the the MSN article and KPMG report are almost certainly not the best sources to glean information from. They aren't looking at the collector car market, which has always played by a different set of rules.

mr2peak

"Prices" of rx7s most likely won't fall, these cars are at the age where they appriciate as classics, with or without covid. Same with GTRs Supras and Type R Hondas. Inflation might remove some "value" but prices will likely stay the same or rise. This might end up as true for the wider market, inflation is a bitch.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

I've been watching the 911 market for decades and it goes up and down like any other market. The FD market and collector market are absolutely in a bubble and after adjusting for inflation these prices may start to level out but I wouldn't expect to see a nice FD for 30k anytime soon.

Today's price for a good FD is 60k which is about double vs two years ago.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

GT3s never sold for anywhere near 50k over retail and no it's not a deal at all. I suspect in 5 years they'll be selling for 50k under MSRP. 3 years ago they may have sold for 5 to 10k over retail from dealers ripping you off. In other words, good dealers usually sold them for MSRP.

The 2021 market is insane!!!!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

Mazda USA's news feed had a chart the other day of Dealer inventory, and in May 21 they had 35,000 cars for sale in the US, by December it was 8,000 (they can make the cars ok, but getting them here seems to be impossible). they are forecasting about 20,000 units by March 22.

the industry as a whole was down 16%, Mazda has been up, they keep beating the previous record which was 1994...

they are also adding a 5th SUV, the CX-50 so you can expect some further economic calamity. every time Mazda goes all in on something, something bad happens, weather its the Rotary engine and the gas crisis or the every car is a sports car and the Bubble Economy/S&L Crisis, the 4th SUV brought us Covid... and now they are adding more. unclear if the Cx3 is coming to the US, but we get Cx5, Cx9, CX-30, Mx-30 and a Cx50? good luck telling them apart!

bossbattleRX7

I’ve had a fair amount of friends with Porsche models (including GT models) and also relatives who have toyed around with buying Porsches off and on.

Allocation deposits and ADM have been a thing for years. Here is a thread from 2017: Rennlist Markup Thread

You are right about dealers taking advantage, but unfortunately it seems to happen more than you think.

I will concede that I didn’t see $50k number I quoted in this thread (though I have heard it anecdotally). We can settle at $25-30k that some of the posters in this thread reference pre-pandemic. $5-$10k over retail for a GT3 was typical (and mentioned in the Rennlist thread). Sure, but people have paid much larger numbers.

To say a 911 GT3 will sell for $50k under MSRP in a few years is maybe a little too pessimistic. For example, have you watched used GT4 prices BEFORE the pandemic?

These cars almost don’t lose value at all. Sure, they will probably sell for somewhere under the marked up price (as they should), but most owners won’t mind the “depreciation.”


Here is another pre-pandemic thread for reference which actually does reference $50k markups. Just to show that I’m not completely insane LOL: 6 Speed Online Thread

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Got you, I'm also familiar with GT3s from a purchasing and selling standpoint.

The touring and RS models command demand but ordinarily, if you paid over retail for your typical GT3 you overpaid other than in this current insane economy.

The best predictor of the future is the past, generally, GT3s lose at least 25k at some point during the 1st 10 years post-production. The 991s including RS models were stupid cheap at one point.

YEP, Gt4s (typically selling between 80 and 110 since production on the used market) have been a good value play but surprisingly haven't kept up with GT3s during these inflation/pandemic times.

One thing is certain, the current world economy does not have a bright future.

PS: Another thing to consider is that production numbers have steadily climbed so I also don't see a bright future for 991 or .2 values in say 10 years.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

agreed, basically its very rare that something similar hasn't happened before. my friend had a couple 993 turbos, and those were 80k cars until 2009, and then they were 20k cars (no clue what they are worth now)

it never does, economists always underestimate the drive that people have.

Redbul

iTrader: (26)

It seems to be a matter of demand and supply.

cloud9

iTrader: (4)