How to value your FD
08-27-17, 11:43 PM
#426
Ihor Huk just posted up this Craigs List ad for a car a friend of his is selling and says its as clean as they come. 13,000 miles and 1 owner in VR with black interior. Not an R1, but has R1 lip and spoiler. Asking $50,000.
https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto...274407219.html
https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto...274407219.html
08-28-17, 07:46 AM
#428
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One more thing along with EGR you don't have to do
I'm sure we are forgetting some other things too but the 95 is the one to own
At this time I'm not really interested in 93s. Too many good 94/95s LOL
08-28-17, 08:35 AM
#429
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As mentioned earlier I don't think this is a legit car. Possible repaint/accident and rust. If it's clean someone may pay 35k but if it's the car I think it is then 20k max IMO.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0931/overview/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0931/overview/
08-28-17, 09:23 AM
#430
Disagree...... the car was not perfect stock out of the box and you'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise.
Aluminum radiator & AST and downpipe is a pretty good start. I suppose wheels and suspension are easily reversed if need be, but I'd prefer a car with some fresh components over original old dusty/rusty/prone to crack/covered in cobwebs.
My 1000 mile MB came with some work done to it, and I've never been able to bring myself to bring it back to stock...... still has emissions and ice cold a/c, but that extra 75 rwhp, SBG HIDs, and larger and better fitting wheels and tires aren't coming off any time soon
My 2 cents
Aluminum radiator & AST and downpipe is a pretty good start. I suppose wheels and suspension are easily reversed if need be, but I'd prefer a car with some fresh components over original old dusty/rusty/prone to crack/covered in cobwebs.
My 1000 mile MB came with some work done to it, and I've never been able to bring myself to bring it back to stock...... still has emissions and ice cold a/c, but that extra 75 rwhp, SBG HIDs, and larger and better fitting wheels and tires aren't coming off any time soon
My 2 cents
I watch the BringATrailer prices on a number of different cars and they always seem to get the premium on vehicles in the $20-75k range. Below that range is hit or miss, sometimes the buyers aren't there. Above that is a stretch for the online auction market. Sometimes there are buyers, but mostly just investors looking to scoop up something at a discount they can flip at a live auction. The FD is right within the meaty market for the site but we haven't even seen $35k yet, let alone $40k or $50k. Owners are free to ask what they want though, but we are free to laugh. Dozens upon dozens of FDs will change hands over the next few years before one sells for $50k. That price just simply means "I don't want to sell it".
08-28-17, 09:46 AM
#431
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I agree it wasn't perfect out of the box, no car is. But people looking for "bone stock" are the ones ready to invest in an appreciating asset and any modification, no matter how trivial, detracts from showroom stock. They aren't going to drive the car much so another 75 rwhp doesn't matter. It's the showroom stock models that are commanding a premium right now simply because everyone is of the mindset you have, that a few mods won't hurt anything.
I watch the BringATrailer prices on a number of different cars and they always seem to get the premium on vehicles in the $20-75k range. Below that range is hit or miss, sometimes the buyers aren't there. Above that is a stretch for the online auction market. Sometimes there are buyers, but mostly just investors looking to scoop up something at a discount they can flip at a live auction. The FD is right within the meaty market for the site but we haven't even seen $35k yet, let alone $40k or $50k. Owners are free to ask what they want though, but we are free to laugh. Dozens upon dozens of FDs will change hands over the next few years before one sells for $50k. That price just simply means "I don't want to sell it".
I watch the BringATrailer prices on a number of different cars and they always seem to get the premium on vehicles in the $20-75k range. Below that range is hit or miss, sometimes the buyers aren't there. Above that is a stretch for the online auction market. Sometimes there are buyers, but mostly just investors looking to scoop up something at a discount they can flip at a live auction. The FD is right within the meaty market for the site but we haven't even seen $35k yet, let alone $40k or $50k. Owners are free to ask what they want though, but we are free to laugh. Dozens upon dozens of FDs will change hands over the next few years before one sells for $50k. That price just simply means "I don't want to sell it".
40k means you don't want to sell it even if it's a 95 chaste white with 15k miles much less a 93 VR touring LOL
08-28-17, 10:54 AM
#432
Take me for example. Even though I always believed these cars were going to be collectibles, I repainted my car to a NON RX-7 yellow and went single turbo (oh no!
). But it is my car, I'm the one that drives it, I did for myself to enjoy, and it is what I really wanted. A fast as ballz sports cars with the looks to match. So for a person like me that never plans on getting rid of it and actually bought this car for his enjoyment, current FD pricing is just bragging rights.
Last edited by Montego; 08-28-17 at 11:07 AM.
08-28-17, 11:21 AM
#433
Has anyone compared the progress of RX7 value as compared to the increase in value of the Pantera? That was a forgotten car for quite some time and they now either hold crazy value with all original parts and low miles OR when they are updated properly with good components. I think the real difference in why RX7's don't increase in value is the lack of knowledge of why a rotary engine is "cool" or "better."
As a new-ish owner of an FD, I was definitely overwhelmed when looking to purchase because I didn't want to trust what other people had hacked up in the engine bay. Seeing bent pieces of metal or wiring with electrical tape does not inspire confidence. A mostly stock car with well engineered replacement parts like a metal AST and aftermarket SMIC is confidence inspiring to a new buyer.
As a new-ish owner of an FD, I was definitely overwhelmed when looking to purchase because I didn't want to trust what other people had hacked up in the engine bay. Seeing bent pieces of metal or wiring with electrical tape does not inspire confidence. A mostly stock car with well engineered replacement parts like a metal AST and aftermarket SMIC is confidence inspiring to a new buyer.
Have fun with that.
08-29-17, 10:33 AM
#436
Has anyone compared the progress of RX7 value as compared to the increase in value of the Pantera? That was a forgotten car for quite some time and they now either hold crazy value with all original parts and low miles OR when they are updated properly with good components.
08-29-17, 11:23 AM
#437
Production count of 7,200 compared to 68,000. Apples to oranges. It wasn't really forgotten either, it just spent a lot of time in the obscure market but now their owners are getting old and the cars are starting to trade hands more frequently. Just like the FD, only the most pristine original or appropriately resto-modded examples will bring high value where as ones with body rot issues and/or mechanical/electrical gremlins can be had for cheap with knowledge of what it will take to bring it back to glory usually costing more than the entry price for a well sorted model. Also, part of the increase in Pantera value is the age of the buyer pool. People that grew up seeing them on posters can now afford them, and they are fighting for a piece of nostalgia. There will come a time where people look back at F&F movies the same way. Dom's FD didn't get the same screen time as Brian's MKIV Supra, but but in 10-20 years, after the pool of good examples has been depleated and parts become unobtainium, a low mile red FD will bring in 6 figures at auction.
I think I'm with Fritz. I would love for these cars to appreciate in the long run, but it's at a perfect price point where we can all still have fun without thinking about keeping them in bubble wrap for the next 10 years.
08-29-17, 03:24 PM
#438
When I was younger, I thought you could preserve a car by washing it regularly and performing regular maintenance. But it's the stupid people around you on the road that crash into you, the bad parkers, the trucks hauling loose debris on the highway, and the elements that will wear out a vehicle. I applaud those who never drive their cars and therefore never get rock chips, parking lot dents, and surface rust...but I have vowed to never treat a car like an investment. While it's in my possession I'm going to drive it like I stole it, leave nothing on the table. I'll still keep it clean and perform regular maintenance, but if it's raining, I'm not going to hide it away just because it might lower the value for the next owner. Life is too short to preserve cars. Drive them while they're still within reach.
08-29-17, 03:37 PM
#439
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Production count of 7,200 compared to 68,000. Apples to oranges. It wasn't really forgotten either, it just spent a lot of time in the obscure market but now their owners are getting old and the cars are starting to trade hands more frequently. Just like the FD, only the most pristine original or appropriately resto-modded examples will bring high value where as ones with body rot issues and/or mechanical/electrical gremlins can be had for cheap with knowledge of what it will take to bring it back to glory usually costing more than the entry price for a well sorted model. Also, part of the increase in Pantera value is the age of the buyer pool. People that grew up seeing them on posters can now afford them, and they are fighting for a piece of nostalgia. There will come a time where people look back at F&F movies the same way. Dom's FD didn't get the same screen time as Brian's MKIV Supra, but but in 10-20 years, after the pool of good examples has been depleated and parts become unobtainium, a low mile red FD will bring in 6 figures at auction.
But in 10 years no problem at all.
When I was younger, I thought you could preserve a car by washing it regularly and performing regular maintenance. But it's the stupid people around you on the road that crash into you, the bad parkers, the trucks hauling loose debris on the highway, and the elements that will wear out a vehicle. I applaud those who never drive their cars and therefore never get rock chips, parking lot dents, and surface rust...but I have vowed to never treat a car like an investment. While it's in my possession I'm going to drive it like I stole it, leave nothing on the table. I'll still keep it clean and perform regular maintenance, but if it's raining, I'm not going to hide it away just because it might lower the value for the next owner. Life is too short to preserve cars. Drive them while they're still within reach.
PS 911s are built like tanks compared to the FD. Or they are not fragile (very nice build quality). If you want to upgrade your collector garage buy a 997 or 996 GT3. I think both models will eventually be very expensive cars.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 08-29-17 at 05:14 PM.
08-29-17, 10:14 PM
#440
If you are like a few of us here that will never let their car go (seems like you are) then current FD pricing is irrelevant (other than making a total loss claim). So if you sold your CW because you liked something better then there is nothing to regret.
Take me for example. Even though I always believed these cars were going to be collectibles, I repainted my car to a NON RX-7 yellow and went single turbo (oh no!). But it is my car, I'm the one that drives it, I did for myself to enjoy, and it is what I really wanted. A fast as ballz sports cars with the looks to match. So for a person like me that never plans on getting rid of it and actually bought this car for his enjoyment, current FD pricing is just bragging rights.
Take me for example. Even though I always believed these cars were going to be collectibles, I repainted my car to a NON RX-7 yellow and went single turbo (oh no!
). But it is my car, I'm the one that drives it, I did for myself to enjoy, and it is what I really wanted. A fast as ballz sports cars with the looks to match. So for a person like me that never plans on getting rid of it and actually bought this car for his enjoyment, current FD pricing is just bragging rights.
08-30-17, 10:30 AM
#441
Some people say they drive their cars like they stole them. I think I drive my cars like I borrowed them from a good friend.
I have this problem, it's called garage space. I can't justify paying $1000s to store a sub $50k car so if I pick up any more cars they're going to end up in my driveway. I already have to store my low mile FB in the driveway. It's a throw away car by collector standards but having to shovel snow off a car that spent the last 30 years in a garage seems like sacrilege. Before I spend $25k on a clean FD, I'm going to have to spend $40k on another garage.
08-30-17, 11:28 AM
#442
Hmm, well since I'm not a thief maybe it's the wrong analogy, or possibly I'd be the most respectful thief there was. I stole your car, took it to the track, ran some laps, but on the way home I refused to eat or drink anything in it. Also, I topped off the oil for you. Here you go bud.
I have this problem, it's called garage space. I can't justify paying $1000s to store a sub $50k car so if I pick up any more cars they're going to end up in my driveway. I already have to store my low mile FB in the driveway. It's a throw away car by collector standards but having to shovel snow off a car that spent the last 30 years in a garage seems like sacrilege. Before I spend $25k on a clean FD, I'm going to have to spend $40k on another garage.
I have this problem, it's called garage space. I can't justify paying $1000s to store a sub $50k car so if I pick up any more cars they're going to end up in my driveway. I already have to store my low mile FB in the driveway. It's a throw away car by collector standards but having to shovel snow off a car that spent the last 30 years in a garage seems like sacrilege. Before I spend $25k on a clean FD, I'm going to have to spend $40k on another garage.
100k per year in the SF Bay Area is now considered the poverty line. With rents shooting past 4k per month just for a 2 bdrm apartment...
I say you pay the 40k and get the FD.
08-30-17, 12:21 PM
#444
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If the current market continues and I think it will for another year or two nice ones will be selling for 30 to 45k next year. So I can definitely see 50 to 60k in 3 years........
However we could also have a economic collapse of epic proportions so who knows
However we could also have a economic collapse of epic proportions so who knows
08-30-17, 02:22 PM
#445
In Orange County, I would have to pay 100k for permits and building on my property and I might not even get it to happen due to my HOA. Then I would have to consider buying a home for 900k+ just to have a 3 car garage and don't forget the property tax to keep it all going!
100k per year in the SF Bay Area is now considered the poverty line. With rents shooting past 4k per month just for a 2 bdrm apartment...
I say you pay the 40k and get the FD.
100k per year in the SF Bay Area is now considered the poverty line. With rents shooting past 4k per month just for a 2 bdrm apartment...
I say you pay the 40k and get the FD.
08-31-17, 06:53 AM
#447
but still very skeptical of anything that sells north of 30k..
ive seen rare FDs in great condition.. to sit for months and not sell.. and they are asking less than that...
would love to be very wrong...
more info on this 75k sale...
08-31-17, 07:59 AM
#448
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Asking prices for cars are as much a leading indicator as they are the market. That is, cars trade for certain dollars that usually are lower than the asking prices. However, the asking prices show the direction and magnitude of the future market pricing. I mentioned a car being advertised for $50,000. It was not being sold by Ihor, but by a friend of his. I would also note that the buyers for these cars are not likely members of this forum. They may not know they are not supposed to pay $40,000 or $50,000 for an FD. They may simply look at the car, its condition, and what others cars can be bought for the same dollars. Viewed that way, $40,000 for a low mile FD today is not a bad price to many in the market who are not FD guys on this forum. I think we all make the mistake of assuming the "market" is our own community.
This car is probably a decent deal if you can get it for 25k or below: 1994 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This car is not good deal even if you can get it for 30k: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...modelCode1=RX7
I'll repeat most anyone paying 20k plus for a 25 year old sports car know a thing or two about the car and can make a decent decision on which car is a deal or not.
The market is no doubt exploding. Lets be thankful we've appreciated/owned and enjoyed this great car for many years and will continue to do so
DJ just paid 25k or so for a 95 CW base with a blown motor (it sold in 3 hours on the this forum) and that's actually a damn good deal. YES this market is blowing up big time and I love it so I'm in it to win it but it will inevitably be pricked by the needle, then blow up again etc....etc.... BOTTOMLINE: as you and me predicted many years ago the FD is a COLLECTOR and no one can argue with us about that anymore
PS just to rial up the supra guys.........IT will be worth more than the supra in 10 years hehe
08-31-17, 10:48 AM
#449
In Orange County, I would have to pay 100k for permits and building on my property and I might not even get it to happen due to my HOA. Then I would have to consider buying a home for 900k+ just to have a 3 car garage and don't forget the property tax to keep it all going!
100k per year in the SF Bay Area is now considered the poverty line. With rents shooting past 4k per month just for a 2 bdrm apartment...
I say you pay the 40k and get the FD.
100k per year in the SF Bay Area is now considered the poverty line. With rents shooting past 4k per month just for a 2 bdrm apartment...
I say you pay the 40k and get the FD.
I think the vast majority of buyers spending 30k plus on 25 year old sports car know exactly what they are buying. And just like every other collector type car many are simply trying to find the best deal and capitalize on a rapidly appreciating investment. Which may explain some of the crazy asking prices. The re-sellers are hoping that what you are saying is true but that's usually not the case.
Since we're posting cars and discussing prices, what's wrong with this one? For the price, I can't think of a more fun weekend cruiser and track day toy. https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/c...239037797.html
08-31-17, 01:12 PM
#450
the forum is a great place to buy a car, not so much to sell one. And you are 100% correct that many assume that the forum IS the FD world, but it really isn't. We are just a small piece of it.Since we're posting cars and discussing prices, what's wrong with this one? For the price, I can't think of a more fun weekend cruiser and track day toy. https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/c...239037797.html
Strong Compression verified in October 2016 during tune up service:
Front: 7.6 7.4 7.3 @ 244 RPM
Rear: 7.5 7.6 7.7 @ 246 RPM
Front: 7.6 7.4 7.3 @ 244 RPM
Rear: 7.5 7.6 7.7 @ 246 RPM