How to value your FD
11-15-18, 02:44 PM
#1676
With the examples Fritz and I posted earlier it is very clear that year and color play a huge role. The white car hit $40k with 30k miles on it, compare it to the touring 93s with that mileage. I'll save you the trouble, they arent getting close. Then look at the CYM, look at its mileage, then look at the sale price. It only sold for 60% markup over the 93 touring black car with same mileage. So tell me again, how you believe color and trim package do not matter.
- Model year and mileage matter for obvious reasons. The newer cars had upgrades and the lesser the miles the better the condition of the car (in theory). Obviously those attributes will be sought after causing a rise in price
- Color. Color is a very personal thing and if most people love one particular color then the demand will be there and hence price will reflect that. The same can be said for the opposite. If the masses as a whole hate one particular color, then there will a lack of demand and prices will reflect those cars as well. Color is a big thing. Like DJ and Narfle just HATE yellow cars and they wouldn't be caught dead owning a yellow FD. .
- Trim. Not so much because the differences in trims aren't really that big. There isn't an upgrade of turbos, no extra HP, negligible weight differences, and no badges to separate trims. Nothing, other that the owner owner telling people that they own XX car. In other words, none of those attributes truly change the driving experience with these cars. Close your eyes on a smooth road and you'll be hard pressed to tell which trim you are driving. So remember, a certain trim has to appeal to the masses more to have an impact in price and I doubt most people care if a car has an extra oil cooler (or not).
11-15-18, 03:12 PM
#1677
Full Member
When I was scrolling through and first saw the white car with the black headlight cover, I thought: Why did someone post a picture of a Dodge Stealth RT? LOL!
11-16-18, 08:12 AM
#1678
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
Fact remains no trends in the bat trades. NONE! So far the gran champ is a VR car that is far down your list. Yet there has been a "higher up" car on your list with a fraction of the miles that has traded for LESS.
What in the name of god can you hang your hats on? Now stop it. So far you both are wrong.
Look, in the name of diplomacy I will find a common ground with you. In your worlds its generally accepted facts that all these things matter to us enthusiasts. And i actually agree with you. People here will pay more for the specs you laid out. However in the main stream your rules are completely meaningless and there is now evidence. And my point is correct. And continues to be proven as such. Lastly, I will say that it is THAT market that will push fds up to real numbers. So i think you both are in the process of learning this. I get it. You push back just like the folks that threw people in jail for saying the earth round (ok now i have gone too far).
We could be arguing two separate points. There are unique markets. There is the mainstream bat market and there is the rx7club enthusiast markets. On bat people are paying up for different reasons. A modded car usually does awful there. I urge you to look at some of the more developed markets like porsche and bmw. They are brutal sticklers to details related to originality. Down to things like rubber and yes in our cases battery covers. The fd market just isnt there yet on the mainstream market and that is my argument. And these are the folks that are getting the FD to the next level after floundering for a decade while the supra and nsx ripped up.
What in the name of god can you hang your hats on? Now stop it. So far you both are wrong.
Look, in the name of diplomacy I will find a common ground with you. In your worlds its generally accepted facts that all these things matter to us enthusiasts. And i actually agree with you. People here will pay more for the specs you laid out. However in the main stream your rules are completely meaningless and there is now evidence. And my point is correct. And continues to be proven as such. Lastly, I will say that it is THAT market that will push fds up to real numbers. So i think you both are in the process of learning this. I get it. You push back just like the folks that threw people in jail for saying the earth round (ok now i have gone too far).
We could be arguing two separate points. There are unique markets. There is the mainstream bat market and there is the rx7club enthusiast markets. On bat people are paying up for different reasons. A modded car usually does awful there. I urge you to look at some of the more developed markets like porsche and bmw. They are brutal sticklers to details related to originality. Down to things like rubber and yes in our cases battery covers. The fd market just isnt there yet on the mainstream market and that is my argument. And these are the folks that are getting the FD to the next level after floundering for a decade while the supra and nsx ripped up.
its a slow day at work so here is another point. You guys are taking the pulse of the enthusiast market. You have established this over two decades of "being around". You have like ten other guys that have been around just as long as you have that are posting. I am included in that. We all know what the flavors are that gets people exciting. I used to post obsessively here. I was on the big list. I know just as well as you two. I may have not sold the cars you have or parts. But I have read and have experienced just as much as you in terms of the culture here. All your points are valid. They represent an accurate view of the general consensus of this community. I agree. Where we have an issue is the notion that we currently and finally have two unique markets. This is where the trouble comes in. This is where the disagreement is. And this is where you two are wrong. And will probably be wrong for quite some time.
And fyi---regarding your list. For the BAT market. A VR car is pretty decent middle of the road color. Meaning it probably does best on bat for awhile. It is a color that the masses can get behind and just generally looks awesome on sports cars. This is another point i have argued with DJ. So i think, and so far correctly, that VR does nicely on BAT
And fyi---regarding your list. For the BAT market. A VR car is pretty decent middle of the road color. Meaning it probably does best on bat for awhile. It is a color that the masses can get behind and just generally looks awesome on sports cars. This is another point i have argued with DJ. So i think, and so far correctly, that VR does nicely on BAT
CYM is worth more
CW is worth more
Mileage matters
Presentation is huge
Tan interior sucks
etc...
Nothings changed and the values are and will likely remain very close to what we've all been accustomed to. Matty and others are welcome to change their minds now that these cars are collectables and now see the earth as being flat but Matty and the others know deep in their minds somewhere that it truly is round. If Matty always felt that CYM cars, R2s, R1s, CWs etc... had similar values to MB/tan cars then hopefully he's going to learn something in the next several years. Or maybe he's right and the earth is flat after all. We will see.
That is exactly how I see things as well. The enthusiast market is a different breed all on it's own.
I have always been out of sorts with the rest of the forum in terms of amenities. I have said many times before that I love my sunroof and HAVE to have AC. But the truth is that I actually like the leather seats, don't mind the rear wiper, and love the bose system. My old 93 SSM had a Bose system that I missed so much that I added a wave tube to my 94 PEP. And in those terms, I think I align myself more with the mainstream market. I want a fast sports car that is comfortable.
The only thing that I truly dislike is the 93 TAN interiors. The seats and carpet are fine but it is the tan door panels, headliners and back bin area that kill it. ugh... Just terrible. That is why I actually like 94-95 tan interiors since only the carpet and seats are tan but the rest of the interior is black. Much more pleasant to the eye. IMO of course
I have always been out of sorts with the rest of the forum in terms of amenities. I have said many times before that I love my sunroof and HAVE to have AC. But the truth is that I actually like the leather seats, don't mind the rear wiper, and love the bose system. My old 93 SSM had a Bose system that I missed so much that I added a wave tube to my 94 PEP. And in those terms, I think I align myself more with the mainstream market. I want a fast sports car that is comfortable.
The only thing that I truly dislike is the 93 TAN interiors. The seats and carpet are fine but it is the tan door panels, headliners and back bin area that kill it. ugh... Just terrible. That is why I actually like 94-95 tan interiors since only the carpet and seats are tan but the rest of the interior is black. Much more pleasant to the eye. IMO of course
All kinds of reasons to prefer 94/95s which is why they have and will always sell for more........WAIT....with the exception of CYM.........LOL
11-16-18, 08:39 AM
#1679
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
And its surprising someone (you) cant distinguish the differences that may exist in a mainstream market like BAT and an enthusiast market like the forum. Pretty embarrassing for you.
Look, you are fairly pompous in the way you engage someone with a differing opinion. You did in the fb group and i sniff it here occasionally as well. Why be a condescending ***** when someone has a diff of opinion? The funny thing here is there are mostly mature men reading this and are picking up on this fact. Not the children of the fb group that will join in the school yard nonsense. So not a good look for you, i think. How can you type that sentence and expect a reasonable conversation to follow? So rather than let this degrade like the group conversation did.I will simply walk away. Taking the high road right out of here.....
11-16-18, 08:48 AM
#1680
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
- Color. Color is a very personal thing and if most people love one particular color then the demand will be there and hence price will reflect that. The same can be said for the opposite. If the masses as a whole hate one particular color, then there will a lack of demand and prices will reflect those cars as well. Color is a big thing. Like DJ and Narfle just HATE yellow cars and they wouldn't be caught dead owning a yellow FD. .
I would argue that they have done their research and they just don't care about the same things the forum does (trim). But time will tell as more examples will roll on through.
11-16-18, 09:00 AM
#1681
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Fritz, I suggest we shut up and see what the ssm does! On paper, that car is very very close to the VR we are using as the benchmark. One trade doesnt make a market though but we can use it for argument sake with a grain of salt. Fair? So i think it does $41k.
Never the less, we just havent seen the mythical CYM or the magical red interior power thru and force a new high water mark. We can make excuses. We can point to a missing compression test. A quiet seller. We can do a number of things. But if those things mattered as much as the conventional forum thinking implies then they wouldnt need excuses. You can say the scarcity is having an impact in other places that you listed earlier. But the only real trend so far is TAN sucks.
I am more than happy to debate this further but only with folks that dont make personal attacks. A joke like saying"thank god matty doesnt trade these" is one thing and i am game for that. absolutely. But attempting to be the "alpha male" in the school yard by making personal attacks and pointing fingers is pretty ridiculous. We should treat each other respectfully. We have a common bond in that we love these cars. So we are at least "smart" on that level and that says something about us in itself. Sorry there is a little history here.
Never the less, we just havent seen the mythical CYM or the magical red interior power thru and force a new high water mark. We can make excuses. We can point to a missing compression test. A quiet seller. We can do a number of things. But if those things mattered as much as the conventional forum thinking implies then they wouldnt need excuses. You can say the scarcity is having an impact in other places that you listed earlier. But the only real trend so far is TAN sucks.
I am more than happy to debate this further but only with folks that dont make personal attacks. A joke like saying"thank god matty doesnt trade these" is one thing and i am game for that. absolutely. But attempting to be the "alpha male" in the school yard by making personal attacks and pointing fingers is pretty ridiculous. We should treat each other respectfully. We have a common bond in that we love these cars. So we are at least "smart" on that level and that says something about us in itself. Sorry there is a little history here.
11-16-18, 09:09 AM
#1682
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
Fritz, I suggest we shut up and see what the ssm does! On paper, that car is very very close to the VR we are using as the benchmark. One trade doesnt make a market though but we can use it for argument sake with a grain of salt. Fair? So i think it does $41k.
Never the less, we just havent seen the mythical CYM or the magical red interior power thru and force a new high water mark. We can make excuses. We can point to a missing compression test. A quiet seller. We can do a number of things. But if those things mattered as much as the conventional forum thinking implies then they wouldnt need excuses. You can say the scarcity is having an impact in other places that you listed earlier. But the only real trend so far is TAN sucks.
I am more than happy to debate this further but only with folks that dont make personal attacks. A joke like saying"thank god matty doesnt trade these" is one thing and i am game for that. absolutely. But attempting to be the "alpha male" in the school yard by making personal attacks and pointing fingers is pretty ridiculous. We should treat each other respectfully. We have a common bond in that we love these cars. So we are at least "smart" on that level and that says something about us in itself. Sorry there is a little history here.
Never the less, we just havent seen the mythical CYM or the magical red interior power thru and force a new high water mark. We can make excuses. We can point to a missing compression test. A quiet seller. We can do a number of things. But if those things mattered as much as the conventional forum thinking implies then they wouldnt need excuses. You can say the scarcity is having an impact in other places that you listed earlier. But the only real trend so far is TAN sucks.
I am more than happy to debate this further but only with folks that dont make personal attacks. A joke like saying"thank god matty doesnt trade these" is one thing and i am game for that. absolutely. But attempting to be the "alpha male" in the school yard by making personal attacks and pointing fingers is pretty ridiculous. We should treat each other respectfully. We have a common bond in that we love these cars. So we are at least "smart" on that level and that says something about us in itself. Sorry there is a little history here.
The SSM won't tell us anything. It's another touring car
There is little difference between SSM/black and VR/black and a collector may prefer red.
I think it will do 45k but who knows again it's an auction months later so it could do anything. The only somewhat fair way to put two cars at auction against each other would be to list them simultaneously.
Again I'm waiting for the low mileage R2, CW, or CYM and I think we'll see a move away from this pack of touring cars.
11-16-18, 09:21 AM
#1683
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
reread your post. I do think cw cym are more valuable around here and maybe one day on bat too (not to me though). Like for other cars. But for the FD that assigned value is so small. Similar to trim.. So i think the noise that is inherit to auctions (as you said presentations, loud mouths, quiet sellers etc) will render this perceived value gap to immateriality bc right now on the BAT market there isnt going to be much value assigned to cw or cym. I am speaking up again bc we just had what is perceived as a top notch unicorn go for less And this supports my thinking. You cant disagree!. Yes there was a paint issue. But your original argument was bahhh who cares about the paint issue you can get it fixed for nil. So like which is it? Silver on red is a great combo as perceived by the forum. IT just sucked. Lets let more things trade. I am sorry but this is a win in my column.
Last edited by matty; 11-16-18 at 09:27 AM.
11-16-18, 09:27 AM
#1684
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
So since you put a number out there. I say 41k on the silver car. But i dont think 45 is over paying. Silver cars dont show as well. And since this is an auction.
And btw. While i like CW over CYM. If color is ever going to matter in a material way for these cars and therefore overpower the "noise" i mentioned above then I pick CYM well over CW as being the horse. I like CW better. Its pretty awesome in person too. But CYM just fits the genre and era. And in 15 years when we look back its more defining.
11-16-18, 09:28 AM
#1685
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
reread your post. I do think cw cym are more valuable around here and maybe one day on bat too (not to me though). Like for other cars. But for the FD that assigned value is so small. Similar trim.. So i think the noise that is inherit to auctions (as you said presentations, loud mouths, quiet sellers etc) will render this perceived value gap to immateriality bc right now on the BAT market there isnt going to be much value assigned to cw or cym. I am speaking up again bc we just had what is perceived as a top notch unicorn go for less And this supports my thinking. You cant disagree!. Yes there was a paint issue. But your original argument was bahhh who cares about the paint issue you can get it fixed for nil. So like which is it? Silver on red is a great combo as perceived by the forum. IT just sucked. Lets let more things trade. I am sorry but this is a win in my column.
I think overall red is less preferred than black. However the people that like it really like it (similar to base vs sunroof) so who knows. The ones I've had were easier to sell. I may have gotten slightly more money for them but nothing worth noting. More money comes in the form of R1, R2, CYM, CW, Base, Pep/Peg usually does better than touring but I can see a 94 touring with bose and glass being worth more than a PEG.....again those are all small steps the big steps are CYM vs mb/tan. SSM R2 versus mb PEG/tan etc...etc... etc.....
11-16-18, 09:31 AM
#1686
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (263)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Charlottesville VA 22901
Posts: 10,672
Received 412 Likes
on
250 Posts
we do need more prints. I will reiterate, I think those too wont have a material gap in price. We shall see. Not yet. Not on bat. One day maybe. And when that day comes JEHAN is holding the lion share.
So since you put a number out there. I say 41k on the silver car. But i dont think 45 is over paying. Silver cars dont show as well. And since this is an auction.
And btw. While i like CW over CYM. If color is ever going to matter in a material way for these cars and therefore overpower the "noise" i mentioned above then I pick CYM well over CW as being the horse. I like CW better. Its pretty awesome in person too. But CYM just fits the genre and era. And in 15 years when we look back its more defining.
So since you put a number out there. I say 41k on the silver car. But i dont think 45 is over paying. Silver cars dont show as well. And since this is an auction.
And btw. While i like CW over CYM. If color is ever going to matter in a material way for these cars and therefore overpower the "noise" i mentioned above then I pick CYM well over CW as being the horse. I like CW better. Its pretty awesome in person too. But CYM just fits the genre and era. And in 15 years when we look back its more defining.
However something tells me it's going to be some a super low mileage 95 SSM R2. There were only a handful of these so one may not even exist.
95 CW base is going to be a very expensive FD if the mileage is under 10k.
PS CYM is currently more valuable on BAT. One I used to own with over 100k miles sold for 23k. Trust me that car was a mess. One with 38k miles sold for 38k.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 11-16-18 at 09:36 AM.
11-16-18, 09:44 AM
#1687
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
The only thing unicorn about that car was the mileage?
I think overall red is less preferred than black. However the people that like it really like it (similar to base vs sunroof) so who knows. The ones I've had were easier to sell. I may have gotten slightly more money for them but nothing worth noting. More money comes in the form of R1, R2, CYM, CW, Base, Pep/Peg usually does better than touring but I can see a 94 touring with bose and glass being worth more than a PEG.....again those are all small steps the big steps are CYM vs mb/tan. SSM R2 versus mb PEG/tan etc...etc... etc.....
I think overall red is less preferred than black. However the people that like it really like it (similar to base vs sunroof) so who knows. The ones I've had were easier to sell. I may have gotten slightly more money for them but nothing worth noting. More money comes in the form of R1, R2, CYM, CW, Base, Pep/Peg usually does better than touring but I can see a 94 touring with bose and glass being worth more than a PEG.....again those are all small steps the big steps are CYM vs mb/tan. SSM R2 versus mb PEG/tan etc...etc... etc.....
I think we have to assign a value to what is material. Obviously every auction is impacted by whomever shows up on that day. So if a car beats the VR car by 2k we need to decide if it means anything. I say not really. I think we need a material gap of say 10k for us to really say...wow that CYM did well. So i think u need to approach 60k for me to concede is my point. And it cant be in two years. I will say....this spring should be exciting.
I think MB that is in pristine condition is awesome in person btw.
11-16-18, 09:46 AM
#1688
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
11-16-18, 09:48 AM
#1689
That was sarcasm.
And its surprising someone (you) cant distinguish the differences that may exist in a mainstream market like BAT and an enthusiast market like the forum. Pretty embarrassing for you.
Look, you are fairly pompous in the way you engage someone with a differing opinion. You did in the fb group and i sniff it here occasionally as well. Why be a condescending ***** when someone has a diff of opinion? The funny thing here is there are mostly mature men reading this and are picking up on this fact. Not the children of the fb group that will join in the school yard nonsense. So not a good look for you, i think. How can you type that sentence and expect a reasonable conversation to follow? So rather than let this degrade like the group conversation did.I will simply walk away. Taking the high road right out of here.....
And its surprising someone (you) cant distinguish the differences that may exist in a mainstream market like BAT and an enthusiast market like the forum. Pretty embarrassing for you.
Look, you are fairly pompous in the way you engage someone with a differing opinion. You did in the fb group and i sniff it here occasionally as well. Why be a condescending ***** when someone has a diff of opinion? The funny thing here is there are mostly mature men reading this and are picking up on this fact. Not the children of the fb group that will join in the school yard nonsense. So not a good look for you, i think. How can you type that sentence and expect a reasonable conversation to follow? So rather than let this degrade like the group conversation did.I will simply walk away. Taking the high road right out of here.....
Back to the real discussion. We have provided plenty of facts to show you it is clear there is a huge bias for CYM/CW and R2 cars(though no R2 cars on BAT yet). This trend will continue to play out. These collectors are not foolish and I wouldn't be shocked if most of them had some previous knowledge of these cars 20 years ago.
The following users liked this post:
adam c (11-16-18)
11-16-18, 09:49 AM
#1690
11-16-18, 09:51 AM
#1692
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
I also think thats why people on that site fight over the smallest variance from original. I am telling you ...they are brutal over this stuff. Maybe you know....i dunno. Watch a porsche auction if you havent. I am looking to pick up a late 80s turbo. So i am watching.
11-16-18, 09:58 AM
#1693
You do realize it was your ego about how much tan didn't suck is what started this whole debate between you and I, correct? You can't tell me you are conveniently forgetting how you acted and defended tan interior?
Hahaha, your thinly veiled passive aggressive comments are hilarious. Be a man and say what you really feel. No one has "attacked" you. This isn't about being an alpha male, its about calling someone out when they post bad information to the community.
I am more than happy to debate this further but only with folks that dont make personal attacks. A joke like saying"thank god matty doesnt trade these" is one thing and i am game for that. absolutely. But attempting to be the "alpha male" in the school yard by making personal attacks and pointing fingers is pretty ridiculous. We should treat each other respectfully. We have a common bond in that we love these cars. So we are at least "smart" on that level and that says something about us in itself. Sorry there is a little history here.
Last edited by djseven; 11-16-18 at 10:06 AM.
11-16-18, 10:05 AM
#1694
Remove your own personal bias and all the answers will become very clear. I hate CYM, I would be "embarrassed" as a grown man to drive a yellow mazda or any yellow car shy of a super car, even then it would be my last color choice. With that said, it doesn't change the fact its worth more. Its worth considerably more on here,on BAT, on autotrader, on EBAY etc. I'm shocked you attempt to debate that.
11-16-18, 10:08 AM
#1695
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
I was awaiting this response, There are a handful of delusional guys on this forum that believe if they say something over and over again it will become true and can't stand to be challenged. A lot of people post on here and social media for validation on the decisions they make or their opinions they carry. Because when you post with the masses, you will always find a few that share your opinions no matter how extreme or foolish they are. I have no issue at all with someone who has a differing opinion if they can back it up or not. Even if they can't and get proven wrong, simply admit it. You were wrong multiple times on the FB conversations but chose to live in a world of denial and keep posting the same ridiculousness over and over. I wasn't the first to call you on it, but because of your bravado I did enjoy it. It ultimately came down to you defending tan interior which I told you from day one was worth drastically less than black interior cars. Surprise, it has played out exactly like I said it would. You own a VR/TAN car and once that become clear I realized your opinions came from a place of bias and I had a great time trolling you. I never once attacked you, but you chose to block me which showed your maturity level. As a grown man, blocking someone on social media who disagrees with you is one of the most cowardly things you can do. I have no issues with you personally. However, I won't hold your hand and sugar coat things for you. My approach rubs somef people the wrong way, typically the ones who have fragile egos and are used to being coddled. I can live with it. I've learned most people appreciate the truth whether it feels good or not, some don't. I've help thousands in this community and as the saying goes, "you can't please everyone".
Back to the real discussion. We have provided plenty of facts to show you it is clear there is a huge bias for CYM/CW and R2 cars(though no R2 cars on BAT yet). This trend will continue to play out. These collectors are not foolish and I wouldn't be shocked if most of them had some previous knowledge of these cars 20 years ago.
Back to the real discussion. We have provided plenty of facts to show you it is clear there is a huge bias for CYM/CW and R2 cars(though no R2 cars on BAT yet). This trend will continue to play out. These collectors are not foolish and I wouldn't be shocked if most of them had some previous knowledge of these cars 20 years ago.
I conceded the tan thing.I really do. And let me tell you if it bothered me that much id go buy a different FD. But I love my car and whats done to it. It rips. So whether the world thinks tan sucks or not isnt really going to impact me. MY fd is not a part of my ego. I worry about things like my family and my career. Those are things i put real effort into. I do enjoy cars too. It is my hobby. But trust me i am not losing sleep over my tan. I legitimately didnt think it mattered much. I even saw it as nostalgic. Like the ferrari tan is. Right now no one agrees and the tan cars are in fact trading at a sharp discount. So pie on my face there. But as far as my ego. Never gonna touch it.
11-16-18, 10:09 AM
#1696
He must have blocked me here too if he has the audacity to post that after the links provided in earlier posts. Christ man, how can you type that after seeing a 50-60% higher resale of CYM and CW cars ON BAT! All personal trolling aside, I truly want you to debate this point. It is so painfully clear man. You truly are an amazing troll or...
11-16-18, 10:12 AM
#1697
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Remove your own personal bias and all the answers will become very clear. I hate CYM, I would be "embarrassed" as a grown man to drive a yellow mazda or any yellow car shy of a super car, even then it would be my last color choice. With that said, it doesn't change the fact its worth more. Its worth considerably more on here,on BAT, on autotrader, on EBAY etc. I'm shocked you attempt to debate that.
11-16-18, 10:13 AM
#1698
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
He must have blocked me here too if he has the audacity to post that after the links provided in earlier posts. Christ man, how can you type that after seeing a 50-60% higher resale of CYM and CW cars ON BAT! All personal trolling aside, I truly want you to debate this point. It is so painfully clear man. You truly are an amazing troll or...
11-16-18, 10:15 AM
#1699
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary