How to value your FD
01-08-20, 12:39 AM
#2851
The Ancient
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01-08-20, 10:40 AM
#2852
There is good discourse here on politics and the economy, but I wonder if another/separate thread would be more appropriate.
Back on topic, a stock 1994 SSM R2 with 74k miles popped up on FB yesterday in PA. Seller has not posted a price but comments on pricing range anywhere from low 20's to upper 30's. Since I follow the market on FD's, I believe the seller purchased the car in Fall 2018 for $22-23k.
Consensus is that a stock SSM R2 rarely pops up for sale which would command a higher price, but the higher mileage prevents this example from being collector grade. History shows the BAT/collector crowd is more interested in stock, low mileage cars than low production numbers/higher mileage examples. Yet, we have not seen a R2 on BAT in some time, so it would be interesting to see what this fetches. Seller has indicated he may list on BAT. Any thoughts on pricing for this one?
Back on topic, a stock 1994 SSM R2 with 74k miles popped up on FB yesterday in PA. Seller has not posted a price but comments on pricing range anywhere from low 20's to upper 30's. Since I follow the market on FD's, I believe the seller purchased the car in Fall 2018 for $22-23k.
Consensus is that a stock SSM R2 rarely pops up for sale which would command a higher price, but the higher mileage prevents this example from being collector grade. History shows the BAT/collector crowd is more interested in stock, low mileage cars than low production numbers/higher mileage examples. Yet, we have not seen a R2 on BAT in some time, so it would be interesting to see what this fetches. Seller has indicated he may list on BAT. Any thoughts on pricing for this one?
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01-08-20, 11:19 AM
#2854
Ban Peak
iTrader: (49)
I've met the owner of the 74k mile R2 and he showed me some hi resolution pics of the car. It is extremely well kept and like new inside & out, I expect it to net low to mid 30's if it sells.
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01-08-20, 11:54 AM
#2855
There is good discourse here on politics and the economy, but I wonder if another/separate thread would be more appropriate.
Back on topic, a stock 1994 SSM R2 with 74k miles popped up on FB yesterday in PA. Seller has not posted a price but comments on pricing range anywhere from low 20's to upper 30's. Since I follow the market on FD's, I believe the seller purchased the car in Fall 2018 for $22-23k.
Consensus is that a stock SSM R2 rarely pops up for sale which would command a higher price, but the higher mileage prevents this example from being collector grade. History shows the BAT/collector crowd is more interested in stock, low mileage cars than low production numbers/higher mileage examples. Yet, we have not seen a R2 on BAT in some time, so it would be interesting to see what this fetches. Seller has indicated he may list on BAT. Any thoughts on pricing for this one?
Back on topic, a stock 1994 SSM R2 with 74k miles popped up on FB yesterday in PA. Seller has not posted a price but comments on pricing range anywhere from low 20's to upper 30's. Since I follow the market on FD's, I believe the seller purchased the car in Fall 2018 for $22-23k.
Consensus is that a stock SSM R2 rarely pops up for sale which would command a higher price, but the higher mileage prevents this example from being collector grade. History shows the BAT/collector crowd is more interested in stock, low mileage cars than low production numbers/higher mileage examples. Yet, we have not seen a R2 on BAT in some time, so it would be interesting to see what this fetches. Seller has indicated he may list on BAT. Any thoughts on pricing for this one?
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gmonsen (01-08-20)
01-08-20, 12:58 PM
#2856
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Ive been looking for a SSM 95 R2 for quite some time. At this point I am switching my focus as none have popped up. I've had a couple of the SSM 94 R2s like the one you are talking about. He set his asking price at $50k which isnt going to happen for a 94. I think he will get $30-35k in this market. 72k miles on the original engine and I dont think he knows much about the maintenance history. Nice car, but a stock FD with 72k miles is not appealing to me or I imagine too many people at that price range. Looks to be a nice FD though.
98, 110, 113, 150, 241, 248, 296, 303, 311, 354, 455, 461, 470, 476, 478, and 519. 354 is a salvage, so 15
Last edited by j9fd3s; 01-08-20 at 01:02 PM.
01-09-20, 09:46 AM
#2858
All out Track Freak!
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A very long time ago the news media may have been more objective, but the older I get the more I wonder if it ever was actually objective. It is certainly true today that anyone who wants to have any idea what world they live in needs to read and listen to a number of sources representing the different biases being promoted. For instance, most economists who are Democrats hold by some form of Keynesian economic theory, which essentially says that significant government intervention in the economy, such as the 2009 stimulus, is vital to avoiding recession, which is somewhat to be expected since Keynes was trying to figure out what caused the 1929 depression and how to avoid it happening again. Think Paul Krugman and Robert Reich. Most economists who are Republicans hold by Classical Economics, which says the market place naturally adjusts to optimal balance and thinks the government should not intervene. Think Arthur Laffer and Alan Greenspan. The easiest way for people to get both sides is to at least read RealClearPolitics.com. They present both sides of every topic.
So, as regards today's economy and the chances of recession, many Democrat economists have been saying the economy is heading towards a recession, because the current administration has seriously de-regulated the economy -- Trump eliminated or suspended nearly 1,500 of the record 3,700 Obama-era regulations -- and has been trying to get the government out of the economy as much as possible. (Many believe some Democrat economists have been saying we are heading toward a recession to create uncertainty and that uncertainty might slow growth of even lead to a recession, which they would then use to advance Democrats into positions of power.) Republican economists are saying the economy has been improving dramatically precisely because the government is getting out of the economy. It is important to read both sides and then observe what is happening factually and by factually, I mean employment, wages, wage growth, corporate profits, stock and bond prices, and GDP. Look at it all and determine what you think is going on and who you think is describing what is happening better. I will tell you that I do not think the elected officials or bureaucrats should ever be allowed to decide anything in regard to the economy. The vast majority of them are incredibly stupid. (My favorite for many years has been Hank Johnson. I absolutely love his questioning of the Admiral of the Pacific Fleet about whether the island of Guam is likely to tip over because of the buildings the Navy has built on the island, but there is no shortage of similar stories about so many Congressmen and women.)
As I have been saying, the economy is not headed toward a recession. Not that things could not change, but right now there are just no signs of it. For example, noting that there are more auto loans 90 days past due is not a sign that a recession is coming. It does represent a slight uptick in the percentage of auto loans past due, but the fact that there has been a huge surge in automobile sales and attendant loans since 2017 means a) that people had the ability and desire to buy many more cars and b) that the automakers profits and employment went up greatly. On the whole far more beneficial than the worry about auto loan defaults having any impact on the economy.
The surge in FD prices has perhaps coincidentally occurred during the current economic boom. FD prices will continue increasing for several years to come as a result of what I believe is a durable bull market and growing economy.
So, as regards today's economy and the chances of recession, many Democrat economists have been saying the economy is heading towards a recession, because the current administration has seriously de-regulated the economy -- Trump eliminated or suspended nearly 1,500 of the record 3,700 Obama-era regulations -- and has been trying to get the government out of the economy as much as possible. (Many believe some Democrat economists have been saying we are heading toward a recession to create uncertainty and that uncertainty might slow growth of even lead to a recession, which they would then use to advance Democrats into positions of power.) Republican economists are saying the economy has been improving dramatically precisely because the government is getting out of the economy. It is important to read both sides and then observe what is happening factually and by factually, I mean employment, wages, wage growth, corporate profits, stock and bond prices, and GDP. Look at it all and determine what you think is going on and who you think is describing what is happening better. I will tell you that I do not think the elected officials or bureaucrats should ever be allowed to decide anything in regard to the economy. The vast majority of them are incredibly stupid. (My favorite for many years has been Hank Johnson. I absolutely love his questioning of the Admiral of the Pacific Fleet about whether the island of Guam is likely to tip over because of the buildings the Navy has built on the island, but there is no shortage of similar stories about so many Congressmen and women.)
As I have been saying, the economy is not headed toward a recession. Not that things could not change, but right now there are just no signs of it. For example, noting that there are more auto loans 90 days past due is not a sign that a recession is coming. It does represent a slight uptick in the percentage of auto loans past due, but the fact that there has been a huge surge in automobile sales and attendant loans since 2017 means a) that people had the ability and desire to buy many more cars and b) that the automakers profits and employment went up greatly. On the whole far more beneficial than the worry about auto loan defaults having any impact on the economy.
The surge in FD prices has perhaps coincidentally occurred during the current economic boom. FD prices will continue increasing for several years to come as a result of what I believe is a durable bull market and growing economy.
Like Gorden I'm a grumpy old man who's seen how the media uses information to it's own end. Trump is a media outlet's wet dream. He says anything he wants with zero filter. Never has a president been so honest and therefore never has a president been so easy for the media to take advantage of. Yep I said honest LOL. At least we know what he's REALLY thinking (usually anything that's made public by a standing pres is combed over by staff members, hell even CEOs rarely make a public statement that's not well thought out) at any given minute and like every human being he'll change his mind every which way the wind blows. As far as our current govs over all policies are going (all I care about) I think Trump has done better than most so far which tells you just how bad the others have REALLY been
YEP the economy is doing great and if it wasn't the gov would lower interest further or stimulate the economy with more and more debt. What this country and other countries are doing in the name of keeping their economies from correcting is criminal. It's going to have devastating consequences on the general public. The current stock market is the largest melt up I can remember. It's currently surpassing the dot com greed/bubble. There is still tons of money sitting on the sidelines (that the rich have collected from the govs printing press and they will get greedy as their friends make more and more in the market so they too will dump money in and the bubble gets bigger). I won't be surprised if we see the dow at 40k at the end of 2021 and I also won't be surprised if it's at 16k. In other words it's a major joke or is not rooted in real value. How can it be when interest rates are manipulated and world govs can borrow all they want etc.... I don't know what the tipping point will be but it's coming and it's going to be a monumental world event. Meanwhile make hey while the sun shines
The stock market is at record levels and DEBT is at record levels (world, state, federal, public......you name it)
PS this is the best economy we've had in decades but we had to lower taxes, cut interest rates and borrow heavily to create it. AGAIN that is not a healthy economy that's a man made BS economy. Any business would succeed if they could break all the economic rules
PSS another thing to note is the heavy stock buy back going on. I read somewhere that corps are buying more stock than 401k funds LOL.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 01-09-20 at 10:27 AM.
01-09-20, 10:26 AM
#2859
I entirely agree with Fritz's last paragraph. The economy is doing well due to all the risky things that have been to make it good. When it goes south, it will be hard to dig out of because of all the risky maneuvers taken.
The Trump honesty comment. Have you seen the fact checkers? He says false things all the time, not necessarily because he honestly believes them, but to trigger the media and mislead the public. Every time something bad or incriminating comes out, he says something crazy and that consumes the media cycle and therefore public attention.
The Trump honesty comment. Have you seen the fact checkers? He says false things all the time, not necessarily because he honestly believes them, but to trigger the media and mislead the public. Every time something bad or incriminating comes out, he says something crazy and that consumes the media cycle and therefore public attention.
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01-09-20, 11:07 AM
#2860
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I entirely agree with Fritz's last paragraph. The economy is doing well due to all the risky things that have been to make it good. When it goes south, it will be hard to dig out of because of all the risky maneuvers taken.
The Trump honesty comment. Have you seen the fact checkers? He says false things all the time, not necessarily because he honestly believes them, but to trigger the media and mislead the public. Every time something bad or incriminating comes out, he says something crazy and that consumes the media cycle and therefore public attention.
The Trump honesty comment. Have you seen the fact checkers? He says false things all the time, not necessarily because he honestly believes them, but to trigger the media and mislead the public. Every time something bad or incriminating comes out, he says something crazy and that consumes the media cycle and therefore public attention.
I think you give Trump too much credit. He is always flying by the seat of his pants. That said the media more today than when he was elected are completely missing the boat because trump is winning or not failing at his actual job. While his admin continues to improve the avg american's life all the avg american hears is how awful he is. Guess what the majority don't buy what the media is selling because they can buy more at the store than ever before
Keep it up and he'll be elected in 2020. ACA.....full of lies and maybe the biggest admin eff up I can remember. If Trump had Obama's political skills he's be unstoppable LOL. Trump is the worst politician I've ever seen and Obama was the best. CRAZY WORLD!!!!!
01-09-20, 11:55 AM
#2861
YES!
The current stock market is the largest melt up I can remember. It's currently surpassing the dot com greed/bubble. There is still tons of money sitting on the sidelines (that the rich have collected from the govs printing press and they will get greedy as their friends make more and more in the market so they too will dump money in and the bubble gets bigger). I won't be surprised if we see the dow at 40k at the end of 2021 and I also won't be surprised if it's at 16k. In other words it's a major joke or is not rooted in real value. How can it be when interest rates are manipulated and world govs can borrow all they want etc.... I don't know what the tipping point will be but it's coming and it's going to be a monumental world event. Meanwhile make hey while the sun shines
The current stock market is the largest melt up I can remember. It's currently surpassing the dot com greed/bubble. There is still tons of money sitting on the sidelines (that the rich have collected from the govs printing press and they will get greedy as their friends make more and more in the market so they too will dump money in and the bubble gets bigger). I won't be surprised if we see the dow at 40k at the end of 2021 and I also won't be surprised if it's at 16k. In other words it's a major joke or is not rooted in real value. How can it be when interest rates are manipulated and world govs can borrow all they want etc.... I don't know what the tipping point will be but it's coming and it's going to be a monumental world event. Meanwhile make hey while the sun shines
The stock market is at record levels and DEBT is at record levels (world, state, federal, public......you name it)
PS this is the best economy we've had in decades but we had to lower taxes, cut interest rates and borrow heavily to create it. AGAIN that is not a healthy economy that's a man made BS economy. Any business would succeed if they could break all the economic rules
PSS another thing to note is the heavy stock buy back going on. I read somewhere that corps are buying more stock than 401k funds LOL.
PS this is the best economy we've had in decades but we had to lower taxes, cut interest rates and borrow heavily to create it. AGAIN that is not a healthy economy that's a man made BS economy. Any business would succeed if they could break all the economic rules
PSS another thing to note is the heavy stock buy back going on. I read somewhere that corps are buying more stock than 401k funds LOL.
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gracer7-rx7 (01-10-20)
01-09-20, 07:18 PM
#2864
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Obama spend 10 trillion to move a market from 7k to 19k. Prior to the great depression the market was at 14k around 2007.
What's happened the last 3 years is freaky. About as freaky as the clinton years during the dot com boom.
As always with economies and world politics there will be interesting times ahead. The coming election should be EPIC. Must watch tv LOL
What's happened the last 3 years is freaky. About as freaky as the clinton years during the dot com boom.
As always with economies and world politics there will be interesting times ahead. The coming election should be EPIC. Must watch tv LOL
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djseven (01-09-20)
01-09-20, 07:52 PM
#2865
The Ancient
A lot being said. And, since I generally take a lot of **** for talking about the economy, I don't think I will say much here. I disagree with several major things being said. Again, I'm not sure what everyone here reads... Or what they know about economics. Interest rates were much lower under Obama than today and America's interest rates are several percentage points higher than any European country's rates. The stock market is way up, but there is no likening it to the DotCom boom and fail. Prices then were based on companies that were not making any money and never did. Today's stock prices reflect higher profits and capital investment. If I had a way of shorting the thinking of many people here, I would... and would make a fortune.
That said, there is always a recession in the future and no harm in keeping that in mind. But anyone who invests or pulls out based on the idea that a recession is coming anytime soon is going to lose money.
It does make me happy that several people here recognize how well things are going. The working class and middle class are finally seeing some real gains. And that is good for the country. It is also good for our cars' values.
And let me add that largely because of the economy, Trump will be re-elected in 2020 unless something not on anyone';s radar right now happens. WWII would do it. A massive meltdown in the economy of course would do it. But, don't hold your breath. For the record, I predict Trump will win both the popular and electoral college votes next year. And the latter by a bigger margin than 2016.
There. Hardly said anything.
That said, there is always a recession in the future and no harm in keeping that in mind. But anyone who invests or pulls out based on the idea that a recession is coming anytime soon is going to lose money.
It does make me happy that several people here recognize how well things are going. The working class and middle class are finally seeing some real gains. And that is good for the country. It is also good for our cars' values.
And let me add that largely because of the economy, Trump will be re-elected in 2020 unless something not on anyone';s radar right now happens. WWII would do it. A massive meltdown in the economy of course would do it. But, don't hold your breath. For the record, I predict Trump will win both the popular and electoral college votes next year. And the latter by a bigger margin than 2016.
There. Hardly said anything.
Last edited by gmonsen; 01-09-20 at 07:57 PM.
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Nakd n Fearless (01-09-20)
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Nakd n Fearless (01-09-20)
01-09-20, 08:50 PM
#2867
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A lot being said. And, since I generally take a lot of **** for talking about the economy, I don't think I will say much here. I disagree with several major things being said. Again, I'm not sure what everyone here reads... Or what they know about economics. Interest rates were much lower under Obama than today and America's interest rates are several percentage points higher than any European country's rates. The stock market is way up, but there is no likening it to the DotCom boom and fail. Prices then were based on companies that were not making any money and never did. Today's stock prices reflect higher profits and capital investment. If I had a way of shorting the thinking of many people here, I would... and would make a fortune.
That said, there is always a recession in the future and no harm in keeping that in mind. But anyone who invests or pulls out based on the idea that a recession is coming anytime soon is going to lose money.
It does make me happy that several people here recognize how well things are going. The working class and middle class are finally seeing some real gains. And that is good for the country. It is also good for our cars' values.
And let me add that largely because of the economy, Trump will be re-elected in 2020 unless something not on anyone';s radar right now happens. WWII would do it. A massive meltdown in the economy of course would do it. But, don't hold your breath. For the record, I predict Trump will win both the popular and electoral college votes next year. And the latter by a bigger margin than 2016.
There. Hardly said anything.
That said, there is always a recession in the future and no harm in keeping that in mind. But anyone who invests or pulls out based on the idea that a recession is coming anytime soon is going to lose money.
It does make me happy that several people here recognize how well things are going. The working class and middle class are finally seeing some real gains. And that is good for the country. It is also good for our cars' values.
And let me add that largely because of the economy, Trump will be re-elected in 2020 unless something not on anyone';s radar right now happens. WWII would do it. A massive meltdown in the economy of course would do it. But, don't hold your breath. For the record, I predict Trump will win both the popular and electoral college votes next year. And the latter by a bigger margin than 2016.
There. Hardly said anything.
This is freaky in that it isn't based on the industrial rev or dot com boom. It's also not based on profits. It's based on world gov spending and low cost of debt world wide. PERIOD end of story. If stocks meet their meager expectations they fly up 10 percent hehe.
Profits are nothing special for the most part and more importantly neither is expected growth.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...ure-2020-01-08
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djseven (01-09-20)
01-09-20, 10:38 PM
#2868
And let me add that largely because of the economy, Trump will be re-elected in 2020 unless something not on anyone';s radar right now happens. WWII would do it. A massive meltdown in the economy of course would do it. But, don't hold your breath. For the record, I predict Trump will win both the popular and electoral college votes next year. And the latter by a bigger margin than 2016.
There. Hardly said anything.
There. Hardly said anything.
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gmonsen (01-10-20)
01-09-20, 10:46 PM
#2869
Obama spend 10 trillion to move a market from 7k to 19k. Prior to the great depression the market was at 14k around 2007.
What's happened the last 3 years is freaky. About as freaky as the clinton years during the dot com boom.
As always with economies and world politics there will be interesting times ahead. The coming election should be EPIC. Must watch tv LOL
What's happened the last 3 years is freaky. About as freaky as the clinton years during the dot com boom.
As always with economies and world politics there will be interesting times ahead. The coming election should be EPIC. Must watch tv LOL
Whether it’s Obama’s spending or Trump’s tax cut the problem is growing yearly with no end in sight.
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01-10-20, 02:21 AM
#2871
Cutting spending is not a electable issue, that's the first serious problem for all US taxpayers, R or D.
The second serious problem is Obama's legacy and foreign policy is a flaming bag of dog sh*t on our doorstep. The media (NYT, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, WaPo) is attempting to hide it with stomping.
The third problem is Radical Leftist and/or Socialist that despise Capitalism inside the USA. This issue is most relevant to the FD RX7 as sports cars are excessive and the CO2 emissions are often offensive to Leftist.
The second serious problem is Obama's legacy and foreign policy is a flaming bag of dog sh*t on our doorstep. The media (NYT, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, WaPo) is attempting to hide it with stomping.
The third problem is Radical Leftist and/or Socialist that despise Capitalism inside the USA. This issue is most relevant to the FD RX7 as sports cars are excessive and the CO2 emissions are often offensive to Leftist.
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Fritz Flynn (01-10-20)
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Fritz Flynn (01-10-20)
01-10-20, 06:55 AM
#2874
Maybe report none of them like an adult. US economy directly correlates with FD value in the US. No one has been disrespectful. Thread is pretty much otherwise dead. FD values have steadied at this time from what I’m seeing and we are trying to figure out why. Even with less owners listing them for sake they don’t seem to be moving very quick at most of the listed prices.
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Fritz Flynn (01-10-20)
01-10-20, 09:16 AM
#2875
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It's disgraceful and why the market is where it is
After all the complaining about Obama's spending the next admin is just as bad. What we are spending on the military is INSANE!!!!!! What we spend on medicare etc.... (easy fix with stopping the price gouging etc... in the med world) blah blah blah. How the eff can an insurance company own a hospital. Next drug companies that own politicians will own insurance companies that own hospitals LOL.
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alexdimen (01-14-20)