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Has no one mentioned the Lotus Emira on this thread? Lightweight, looks stunning, from a company that prioritizes handling and the driving experience. Will offer a stick. Inflation adjusted price only a little above what the 90s JDM halo cars sold for new.
ETA: Will almost certainly have annoying fit and finish/quality issues to really match the full FD experience.
Currently on vacation but before I left put over 100 miles on my GR86, and I must say it’s FAST and fun even though I’m babying the throttle and keeping it under 4k rpm.
Once it’s broken in and fluids replaced I already have an exhaust sitting waiting to be put on and the digital sound turned off. Glad I got it msrp to replace my Prius as a daily.
The arguement for manual car is not based on performance, but an individuals (obviously not you own) driving enjoyment.
You can make your FD faster with a DTC.
You can make your FD faster with a V8.
You can make your FD faster with a Tesla swap.
Im not saying someone shouldnt do any of those things, just that its not what I want for my FD.
When I say lets play racecar driver, Im playing at being the racecar drivers I grew up idolizing (Options/Hot Version crew).
Im like that old guy in a leather jacket and scarf driving his little 1950s British POS, except im in my little Japanese 90s POS.
Interesting how this has turned into a DCT vs H pattern debate. I would agree with the above statement and will back it up with this question: would you want to own a DCT Miata?
IMO a DCT Miata would be boring, because of the power level it is at. The joy in driving a Miata, is how easy it is to get the car to do exactly what you want it to do. You do not drive a Miata for its thrill of straight line performance. The only DCT I have serious seat time in, is the C8 vette. While the C8 vette is wicked fast, it does not have the same spry dancing feel that a Miata has.
I would rather my Rx-7 drive like a Miata, than like a Vette. I do not care how much horsepower it makes. I want to be able to dance with the car at 10/10 on the street. I understand that some just want to make the fastest rotary Rx-7 out there and I respect that, but that is not for me. There are a lot cheaper vehicles that will spank an Rx-7 in a 1/4 mile.
DCT is a good option when you exceed the power capacity of the stock trans. The more power you make, the more of a speed difference the DCT will make. At a certain point you also want both hands on the wheel all the time, and paddle shift is a way to accomplish that
Just rented this for a day on Turo and WOW, I don't think I have ever had as much fun on backroads. I'm not a phenomenal driver by any stretch, but the confidence this thing gives you in the responsiveness of the controls, and the speed it can carry as a result, is tremendous. It has many of the modern car pros such as uber chassis stiffness, excellent brakes, and responsive steering. At the same time, all modern cars (front-engine ones at least) have high cowls that make for poor visibility, and electronic throttles never fee quite right to me. These are minor annoyances though, this thing is awesome, and it is cool that Toyota/Subaru are still making an affordable lightweight driver's car.
Some further thoughts about the FD and modern cars, taken from another thread:
If there's one thing I could change about the FD, it would be to make it more responsive. There is a rubberiness to the controls that has been engineered out of more modern sports cars, and I wish there was some way to combine the uncompromised design of a 90s car like the FD, with the engineering and driving characteristics of a more modern car. Performance upgrades like coilovers, larger wheels, and big brakes get you part of the way there, but a lot of the precision feel comes from the stiffness that is baked into the chassis, so there is only so much you can do with a 30 year old design. I recently had a new BRZ for 24 hours and was blown away with how it performed on a backroad. There are things about it that disqualify it for me as a long term keeper, but it has me looking at newer cars in a different light, and I'm thinking about trying to pick up an RX-8 as a second car.
As an update, I got to test drive an RX-8 and pretty quickly realized that the more sedan-like form factor is not what I am looking for in a second/fun car. So the search for a modern FD replacement continues...
It has been discussed in this thread before, but the Cayman GT4 seems like a compelling option. And with FD prices the way they are lately, a direct comparison between the two is not as ridiculous as it may seem at first glance.
Recently finally fully broke in my GR86 and changed the oil well before the recommended mileage, it's a super fun car to drive. Definitely will be an amazing daily, so much fun and it's definitely a fast car. I haven't driven any fast cars before, I came from a Prius and my first fast car was the FD so I am not 'spoiled'.
My friend who has a 500 HP mustang sat in my passenger seat when I did a few redlines and he was really impressed at how stiff the suspension is and how fast it is. Going to hit the mountains on my days off mid week, really excited. Really missing my FD right now, the shop that's doing a lot of the work on building my harness and other work is taking way longer than normal and isn't really communicating a whole lot outside of an update > month ago about why they're taking so long.
Should have been a two week ordeal, but it is what it is I guess.
As an update, I got to test drive an RX-8 and pretty quickly realized that the more sedan-like form factor is not what I am looking for in a second/fun car. So the search for a modern FD replacement continues...
It has been discussed in this thread before, but the Cayman GT4 seems like a compelling option. And with FD prices the way they are lately, a direct comparison between the two is not as ridiculous as it may seem at first glance.
my neighbor had a regular Cayman and really liked it. he ended up selling it because he could make a profit on it, and his Rivian came in. the Rivian is not a sports car at all. it is really nice though. the fun quirk in the way the timing worked out is that he got the first Rivian, and if you see a review and its a blue one, its literally that truck
Has no one mentioned the Lotus Emira on this thread? Lightweight, looks stunning, from a company that prioritizes handling and the driving experience. Will offer a stick. Inflation adjusted price only a little above what the 90s JDM halo cars sold for new.
ETA: Will almost certainly have annoying fit and finish/quality issues to really match the full FD experience.
I was shocked to see a Lotus over 3k lbs. If they could get that V6 to sound like Porsche GT3 6s, and not like Chewbacca like most Japanese V6s I've heard, it'd be pretty good though.
I was shocked to see a Lotus over 3k lbs. If they could get that V6 to sound like Porsche GT3 6s, and not like Chewbacca like most Japanese V6s I've heard, it'd be pretty good though.
Eh. It's over 3K but so is a Cayman. Am I wrong in thinking that if you want sub 3k today you have the BRZ/Miata at the entry level or literal supercars past that? There is no mid-to-high end sports car in the US market that's that light. An Emira or Cayman at 30xx is the best you're going to do.
The Emira carries over the Evora's V6 for the most part, and I think that sounds great:
I feel like lightweight just doesn't sell cars, hence the change. There might be just as many car people around, but there are less and less drivers out there in my experience. The ND2 is a 2-seater that weighs 2300 lbs, is RWD, and gets up to 60mph quicker than an S2K, but the car community as a whole still kind of rolls their eyes at it. As an ND2 owner who has previously owned an S2K and an FD, it gets kind of tiring making excuses for the trade of power for weight-reduction, even though it absolutely makes for an engaging driving experience. The modern consumer just wants FAST FAST FAST, BRRRRRRRRR! They don't really care about having a super light, tossable car.
I feel like lightweight just doesn't sell cars, hence the change. There might be just as many car people around, but there are less and less drivers out there in my experience. The ND2 is a 2-seater that weighs 2300 lbs, is RWD, and gets up to 60mph quicker than an S2K, but the car community as a whole still kind of rolls their eyes at it. As an ND2 owner who has previously owned an S2K and an FD, it gets kind of tiring making excuses for the trade of power for weight-reduction, even though it absolutely makes for an engaging driving experience. The modern consumer just wants FAST FAST FAST, BRRRRRRRRR! They don't really care about having a super light, tossable car.
Without a doubt the ND2 is a driver's car. My biggest gripe is that I just think that the FD and S2K look nicer.
Not a complaint about the ND2.
Yeah, don't get me wrong--there's a reason I still lurk on this forum, hahaha. The FD is still my favorite car that I've owned, and I regret not having one in my garage. Perfect blend of usable power, light weight, and character for the street, and basically unlimited headroom for modification and competent track work. The FD is a truly special car.
I think you're right... "lighweight" alone doesn't sell cars, but power to weight can/does. I'd just like to see Lotus especially perhaps achieve the same end with a different approach, instead of everyone making the same car with different headlight styling and badges.
And yeah, Miatas are cool cars but chronically under powered. You can get the 3 with a 250hp engine.
Man the GR86 is one amazing car. I took it for canyon running this past week and boy does it rip, such an amazing experience to drive on those turns. I think my next upgrade will be Hawk Performance + pads and Motul brake fluid for it, and leave the car as is.
