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Man the GR86 is one amazing car. I took it for canyon running this past week and boy does it rip, such an amazing experience to drive on those turns. I think my next upgrade will be Hawk Performance + pads and Motul brake fluid for it, and leave the car as is.
Do you have issues with the electric steering? Does it feel disconnected to the road because of it?
Do you have issues with the electric steering? Does it feel disconnected to the road because of it?
I'm not a professional driver, so I'm not the best person to ask. I don't feel disconnected to the road for what it's worth. It handles beautifully and is really responsive, I may change my opinion once I get my FD back. I came from driving a Prius, and didn't get a chance to drive my FD too much so take it with a grain of salt. FD hopefully should be done soon.
Drove a 1960 MG MGA last weekend (I rent interesting cars on Turo/DriveShare) and came away from the experience wanting a vintage car. Maybe an Alfa Romeo GTV?
It is just such an engaging experience. Even during normal driving you're running every gear to the right side of the tach - simply taking off from a stoplight feels like you're in a grand prix. It is fun to be able to use the full capability of the car in a wider variety of situations, rather than just at the track like would be the case in something more modern.
Drove a 1960 MG MGA last weekend (I rent interesting cars on Turo/DriveShare) and came away from the experience wanting a vintage car. Maybe an Alfa Romeo GTV?
It is just such an engaging experience. Even during normal driving you're running every gear to the right side of the tach - simply taking off from a stoplight feels like you're in a grand prix. It is fun to be able to use the full capability of the car in a wider variety of situations, rather than just at the track like would be the case in something more modern.
That one is a non-stock color and has been fettled by Alfaholics, but doesn't look too different from the stock versions. The "step nose" front where there is a "step" where the hood meets the front bodywork is a design feature of the early 105/115 coupes, which carried the model name Giulia Sprint GT and GT Veloce. I have been researching them lately and love the idea of a car with the character of a vintage car, but still with decent performance credentials. They have four-wheel disc brakes and a five-speed fully-synchronized transmission, pretty novel for the 60s.
I understand this is completely off topic, but cool all the same. Now if only I had more garage space... incidentally, they sell for around the same on BaT as a clean stock FD.
I went thru the same infatuation for about a decade. I even went to look at one to buy. Everyone should drive an Alfa at least once in their lives. Anyways, I always would up being scared off by the mechanical and structural gremlins these beauties belie. Ultimately, she had to have irresistible FORM to offset her offputting 'FUNCTIONS'... I never met that one so I've moved on.
That said, if you get one, please don't post it... it'll break my heart!!
Last edited by Carlos Iglesias; Aug 17, 2022 at 05:51 PM.
Under $65K? I suggest an alfa romeo giulia quadrifoglio. Very direct driving experience, and quick AF.
Timing belt is a bit of a pain to change and is required every 4 years, but does not require the engine to come out to replace it. Pretty small back seat too.
Anymore feedback/review on the Giulia Quad? Really considering it as my next DD.
I've been on this journey. I really didn't realize just how much I liked the car. I got an SW MR2 but the RX is just so smooth even when you lose traction. RX7 suspension design was really great and strangely I've turned into more and more of a Mazda fan with each new swing at a replacement.
I've been driving an ND1 RF with a supercharger, Volks, sway bars, Konis, Wilwoods, and springs and it's closer. I really dislike first gear and want to take off in second gear, but it's just slightly too long. Visibility is kind of poor rearward, but the glare on the windshield is way better. Honestly, I think the ND1 was better without the supercharger. I think the
I tried out a Golf R and it was so disappointing to me, but the interior is really nice.
Then the last car I tried was an F82 M4. The size was a big turn off, but between the MR2 and the ND it might just be me. Its steering is strangely heavy just for the sake of being heavy but it's just a simulation and the feedback isn't all there. $1300+ for a set of street tired that I'm sure the whale will just eat up. It's weird because it's modified by engineers in ways that I really like, but the outcome with all of the modern electronics just feels filtered in a way. It turns amazingly well for the size of the car, the brakes are insane, and the power is everything one could ask for. The dimensions are so big though and the car is honestly way too fast. I think many cars are too fast now. The F80 community wasn't particularly full of information which was probably my biggest disappointment. It really didn't feel like the ultimate driving machine sadly and seemed like a brilliant engineering exercise. Honestly, I've had T5s and T56s that have felt better. the car is so fast that I get the appeal of the auto.
I always tell people the motor is such a small part of what makes the RX7 special but it's what people can't see past.
Not sure you could find one, but some cars I've thought about are the RX8, NC, Elise/Exige, E85, S2000, E89 sDrive28i the late 4-cylinder one. I think there are potential gems but you have to go into fuel and emissions crisis cars. I think 70s Alfas and 70-80s BMW might give the proper experience. Caterham would be up there. A car that makes the most sense with a hideous front bumper that I think is promising is a Panoz Avezzano/Esperante. I haven't seen a cheap street legal on in years though. I think a Celica Supra from the early 80s could be a neat platform to start with and modify.
Strangely, I've wanted less power than ever before. Modern cars do perform better than the old hero cars, but I like our older forms of assistance. It is weird to shop for a rewarding experience versus being so performance-obsessed. I'm so tired for looking for something to live up to the RX7, but I guess a lot of cars aren't running around on spherical bushings. When there's stock without markups I will check out the 86/BRZ car.
interesting! my favorite BMW to drive is the 1602/2002, all the controls feel great, every other BMW (i haven't driven anything newer than ~09?) feels too big and too numb. it is a giant piece of crap though, its about as robust as a cereal box...
item two is that Mazda built a TON of Mx5's in October (~200 a day, which is like 1st gen Rx7 territory), and they should be arriving shortly, so we are going to go from a shortage to a glut
If you like 2002's, then you probably love E30s. I've had 6 E30s in various states of tune. 318is with an M50B25TU, 325is, a few 325i cars swapped and stock and parts cars, even an MTech convertible with a stroker on ITBs. Helped my friend put an M20 into his 2002 back in the day as well. There's a reason E30s have gone up in price, they are great cars, just enough power to get into trouble and super simple to work on with a huge community for both track and show and plenty are still daily drivers. I wouldn't say there are anything like an FD replacement, unless you are looking for something less complicated with tons of parts easily available all over the world. I'd love to have one parked next to the FD at some point. An E30M3 clone with a K20 tuned to DTM spec power would be a wonderful experience. Real E30 M3's are beyond what I think the experience is worth at this point unless you want to race them as classics.
Drove a 1960 MG MGA last weekend (I rent interesting cars on Turo/DriveShare) and came away from the experience wanting a vintage car. Maybe an Alfa Romeo GTV?
It is just such an engaging experience. Even during normal driving you're running every gear to the right side of the tach - simply taking off from a stoplight feels like you're in a grand prix. It is fun to be able to use the full capability of the car in a wider variety of situations, rather than just at the track like would be the case in something more modern.
Me in my dad's Tyrolite Green MGA on The Melee rally a few years back. Everyone smiles and waves when you drive this thing, old ladies get happy and children point. I've always wanted a Mini I can only hope it would bring this same level of joy out of people. Totally different experience from driving any modern sports car
Not many places I can share this, and it's a bit off the thread topic, but this is my short list of potential keepers or FD replacements. Yes, I have a list (and this is just the "sport" category.)
Most are lightweight driver's cars from the 60s-90s. As much as I hate to admit it, classic Porsches really are as good as people say. I recently rented a '61 Beetle and came away from the experience wanting something air-cooled with the engine in the rear, either a 356 or a 912 for the superior weight distribution compared to a 911. You can bomb down a backroad at 10/10s in those cars with no fear.
I know this thread is old, but I also know many people have that itch to get something to add to the FD sitting in the garage. I ended up just waiting and saving to get what I really wanted, a 911. I know it's more than the original $65k price limit the OP wanted, but it is a fun DD and it doesn't make me want to drive the FD any less.
Not many places I can share this, and it's a bit off the thread topic, but this is my short list of potential keepers or FD replacements. Yes, I have a list (and this is just the "sport" category.)
Most are lightweight driver's cars from the 60s-90s. As much as I hate to admit it, classic Porsches really are as good as people say. I recently rented a '61 Beetle and came away from the experience wanting something air-cooled with the engine in the rear, either a 356 or a 912 for the superior weight distribution compared to a 911. You can bomb down a backroad at 10/10s in those cars with no fear.
if you have the chance to drive a Triumph Tr2/3/4 you should. and actually the old 66-85 Fiat spider, out of all the 60's sports cars its the most well rounded
i grew up in Silicon Valley, BMW's are everywhere.
i owned an E30 for a while, it was the one i wanted in high school. my dad bought a 1989 525i new, and in the brochure they had it next to a 325is, so i bought one and meh
all of the control inputs are numb and heavy, it just isn't fun to drive.
so the E30 looks great, potentially sounds great, but i don't want another one
One thing I've noticed about the FD is that there aren't many cars the size of the FD that have as much power as it does. You have the modern stuff which has the power, but they're all big huge barges, even cars that are supposed to be small like the 911. There are a lot of older cars that are small and light, but they tend not to have much power. The FD is one of the only ones I can think of that has compact dimensions and a rocket booster engine. And I think this is what you notice when you step on the gas - how fast you're going in such a small and light car.
One thing I've noticed about the FD is that there aren't many cars the size of the FD that have as much power as it does. You have the modern stuff which has the power, but they're all big huge barges, even cars that are supposed to be small like the 911. There are a lot of older cars that are small and light, but they tend not to have much power. The FD is one of the only ones I can think of that has compact dimensions and a rocket booster engine. And I think this is what you notice when you step on the gas - how fast you're going in such a small and light car.
true! my friends and i like to compare the FD (and FC) to vintage Ferrari's. it starts with the size, a short wheel base 250GT is 2400mm, and the FD basically matches that.
the Ferrari's come in several states of tune, from 230hp all the way to the GTO with 280, FD is basically matches that.
the aluminum body Ferrari's are way lighter, like 2300lbs, but if you remove the same stuff from an FD you'd be close (carpet, radio, ac, ps, etc). the steel body cars are about the same as a stock FD
the Ferrari's have bigger brakes, which is kind of funny, but the FD has a wildly better suspension.
I ended up just waiting and saving to get what I really wanted, a 911.
Congrats on the beautiful acquisition! You are absolutely right that a 911 is not in the same league monetarily to replace an FD, but a 911 is so good out of the box in the right package (balance in brakes and acceleration and handling that I've been chasing on my FD for two decades)
After taking a friend's 991.2 GT3 RS Weissach out for a few sessions at Palmer Motorsports Park recently, I can see it comfortably / no look back replacing my FD for track duty if I had the means
A Weissach won't be landing in my garage anytime soon (if ever?) so staying on topic - a Lotus Exige is the only thing I'd replace my FD with for track duty. For street fun, my E92 N51 dadmobile with the baby seats in the back is fun enough with a 6MT and slow enough to keep me out of trouble and the mod bug off my back
Anymore feedback/review on the Giulia Quad? Really considering it as my next DD.
I still have my 2019, no issues so far. It is a great all-around high performance sedan. Like the FD, they are not common so you will likely not encounter another one on the road very often which I like.
Fuel economy is not great if you drive it had, like 16-18MPG but it can do okay if driven gently, maybe 22-25. Recommend a Mopar extended warranty if you can, they are not very expensive and a single failure out of warranty can recoup the cost quickly. It would make a great DD in my opinion, however if a DD I do NOT recommend the NRING like mine with satin/matte paint. Way too much maintenance required and I live in fear of getting a scuff mark.
There are some different trim packages and options over the years, AR has been simplifying since the 2021 model year so those have fewer choices for brake and interior color, etc. Also 2020 was the last year for carbon ceramic brakes IIRC. If buying used the CCM is virtually free as it does not seem to add to the resale value but if you need to replace rotors it is ungodly expensive.
This last year I have purchased a 2021 Campagna T-Rex, a 95 C2 911 and a McLaren 650S. The T-Rex gives all the excitement of the FD and then some, but zero practicality and weather has to be perfect. The 911 is breathtaking and handles well, its slows as **** and not thrilling at all. The McLaren.....its phenomenal in every aspect. However, it should be with a $330K sticker price.
In conclusion, with the assistance of some current technology, a few mods and good maintenance, the FD is just as special today as it was in the mid 90s. Not much of a damn thing you can replace it with that is modern that will allow you to row gears and give the same lightweight thrill ride. We can all keep dreaming but spend moderate money for a newer 911, used Viper, used Z06 or dump a bunch of money on an aircooled turbo 911 or supercar. Those are your options.
This last year I have purchased a 2021 Campagna T-Rex, a 95 C2 911 and a McLaren 650S. The T-Rex gives all the excitement of the FD and then some but zero practicality and weather has to be perfect. The 911 is breathtaking and handles well, its slows as **** and not thrilling at all. The McLaren.....its phenomenal in every aspect. However, it should be with a $330K sticker price.
In conclusion, with the assistance of some current technology, a few mods and good maintenance, the FD is just as special today as it was in the mid 90s. Not much of a damn thing you can replace it with that is modern that will allow you to row gears and give the same lightweight thrill ride. We can all keep dreaming but spend moderate money for a newer 911, used Viper, used Z06 or dump a bunch of money on an aircooled turbo 911 or supercar. Those are your options.
Man, those are some serious purchases for one year. I would have to agree though, it's very hard to replace an FD. the 911 with some serious power mods would be closest in my books from what I have driven. I have not driven a T-Rex and as you said a McLaren is what it is and in another class altogether needed the wallet to match. Odd thing is, at least where I live, you are less likely to see an FD on the road than a McLaren which I'm fine with. A clean FD or MKIV Supra tends to draw more of a crowd at a regular car show locally than a McLaren as well.
I drove my friends 2018 911 Turbo S and was very impressed. Could be very tame with the suspension set to soft, but was very fast and handled like it was on rails in the sport mode. And I have seen a few bolt on 911 turbos that are 7-800rwp. If I had the bank roll to spend, I would consider one of these. Kids are too expensive! lol.
