Cars in 2021 to replace the FD
10-20-23, 01:03 PM
#551
All out Track Freak!
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No such thing as a downpipe, exhaust and tune for 80hp+ in RX8 land. Very few FDs are still making stock power, who here has a bone stock FD? Or even a stock FC Turbo?
That said, 8s are the better track chassis. There's a team here that races FDs and have one that's been slightly lengthened, with RX8 rear suspension grafted on. Also have a few other RX8's, both renesis and 13brew, and the 8s are better on track. Longer wheelbase and better rear suspension.
That said, 8s are the better track chassis. There's a team here that races FDs and have one that's been slightly lengthened, with RX8 rear suspension grafted on. Also have a few other RX8's, both renesis and 13brew, and the 8s are better on track. Longer wheelbase and better rear suspension.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 10-20-23 at 01:07 PM.
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mr2peak (10-20-23)
10-20-23, 04:11 PM
#552
you're absolutely right though. the Rx-8 is comparable on paper and i know it has been lauded, both at the time of it's release and in the years since, for it's handling - even over the FD!… I also think that by the time the Rx-8 came along, a lot more "younger" people had access to the FD and its serious quirks had been sorted. the rest could simply be dealt with by modifying it with a smorgasbord of available parts in the aftermarket. the FD was a warrior, born in true war-times (the Z32, the 3000GT, the NSX and the JZA80) and it had a mission. i think the Rx-8 was meant to appeal to more people, and we all know what happens when you try to please more people. it came along in the times of the Z33 and the S2000 - the landscape was vastly different.
i think reliability plays a part as well... i think the Rx-8 was shrouded in gimmickry, and i think Rx-7 guys recognize it and might not buy into it. i think when an Rx-7 guy/gal sees a car with a rotary engine, there is an innate need to compare it to an Rx-7, and even if said car is not claiming to be an Rx-7, then it will be overlooked because it is not.
i think reliability plays a part as well... i think the Rx-8 was shrouded in gimmickry, and i think Rx-7 guys recognize it and might not buy into it. i think when an Rx-7 guy/gal sees a car with a rotary engine, there is an innate need to compare it to an Rx-7, and even if said car is not claiming to be an Rx-7, then it will be overlooked because it is not.
And totally agree that consumers saw the RX8 as gimmicky and there was an overly saturated sports market at that time with lots of cool rides to choose from. Which after the F&F movie success, was really the beginnings on everything we see today imo (special oem models, oem+ parts support, etc).YEP, even the stock the FD was a weapon on a big track. I guarantee it would smoke a stock miata at VIR. I think I ran 2:12 (will try to find vid to verify I could be off, getting old LOL) in a stock FD with OEM size track tires… Anyway, I'm guessing a stock FD would easily beat the ND on a big track as long as the race was short lol.
No such thing as a downpipe, exhaust and tune for 80hp+ in RX8 land. Very few FDs are still making stock power, who here has a bone stock FD? Or even a stock FC Turbo?
That said, 8s are the better track chassis. There's a team here that races FDs and have one that's been slightly lengthened, with RX8 rear suspension grafted on. Also have a few other RX8's, both renesis and 13brew, and the 8s are better on track. Longer wheelbase and better rear suspension.
That said, 8s are the better track chassis. There's a team here that races FDs and have one that's been slightly lengthened, with RX8 rear suspension grafted on. Also have a few other RX8's, both renesis and 13brew, and the 8s are better on track. Longer wheelbase and better rear suspension.
10-20-23, 04:23 PM
#553
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i was going to post times for the ND cup cars, but at Laguna (1:41's!) and then i haven't seen an FD go around Laguna in a decade (or more, and it was on fire at the time too)
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Federighi (10-21-23)
10-20-23, 10:29 PM
#554
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10-21-23, 05:03 PM
#555
For a few months during college, I had a part-time job putting real-world driving miles on pre-production RX8s for an emissions testing company. This was around 2006, I think there were at least 4 different RX8s, and the company had multiple shifts so the cars ran for at least 16 hours per day. I also owned my FD RX7 at the time, it was mostly stock with a downpipe and front swaybar and sticky summer tires. On most days I would drive my RX7 to the shop and then drive an RX8 for 4-8 hours and then drive my RX7 home. From what I remember, the RX8 was a much better daily-driver than the RX7, it was more civilized and handled similarly well. The lack of power was noticeable compared to the FD, and the added weight/length wasn't really noticeable when cornering but I think it felt a little heavier than the RX7 when braking. The 6-speed gearbox ratios were noticeably shorter, it felt like the RX8 needed to shift all the time. I actually preferred the 6-speed automatic transmission RX8 because the auto mode was rarely in the wrong gear and the manual mode shifted quickly enough to feel like the driver was in control. The auto cars were equally fast in a straight line, our group had plenty of straight lines and driver swaps to confirm that. Our job was to drive a prescribed route each day, but some of the days included twisty mountain roads so we got to have some fun.
Around that same time, a friend bought an RX8 and spent money modifying it. I think he upgraded suspension and wheels and tires, and it was able to fit a lot more tire under the stock fenders than my FD, possibly 295 or wider. His RX8 was faster than mine at autocross events, I think that was mostly due to the wider tires. It still lacked the same pull-in-the-seat feel when accelerating in a straight line. I think an RX8 with the same power-to-weight ratio as an FD would be a fun car, and I think if they had 300-350 HP people would have excused the fuel mileage and reliability problems. I think the later model facelifted RX8s fixed most of the styling choices I didn't like, with the updated taillights and headlights and fenders.
Around that same time, a friend bought an RX8 and spent money modifying it. I think he upgraded suspension and wheels and tires, and it was able to fit a lot more tire under the stock fenders than my FD, possibly 295 or wider. His RX8 was faster than mine at autocross events, I think that was mostly due to the wider tires. It still lacked the same pull-in-the-seat feel when accelerating in a straight line. I think an RX8 with the same power-to-weight ratio as an FD would be a fun car, and I think if they had 300-350 HP people would have excused the fuel mileage and reliability problems. I think the later model facelifted RX8s fixed most of the styling choices I didn't like, with the updated taillights and headlights and fenders.
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10-22-23, 09:55 AM
#556
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the 2004-2005 FOUR speed though is a pretty awful combo, as it also came with the low power, 4 port engine.
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gracer7-rx7 (10-25-23)
10-22-23, 12:06 PM
#557
… The lack of power was noticeable compared to the FD, and the added weight/length wasn't really noticeable when cornering but I think it felt a little heavier than the RX7 when braking… I think an RX8 with the same power-to-weight ratio as an FD would be a fun car, and I think if they had 300-350 HP people would have excused the fuel mileage and reliability problems. I think the later model facelifted RX8s fixed most of the styling choices I didn't like, with the updated taillights and headlights and fenders.
RX8 w/p ratio = 13.74
Not that big of a deal here imo, especially to say there was a 'lack of power' between the two. Imo, the power band from 6-9k on a healthy Renesis pulls just as hard to redline compared to a stock REW (with more usable power under the curve), not to mention FD turbo system is super finicky to get in / stay on boost and only has real oomph from 5-7k (when the secondary hits). While the torque of the turbo provides the 'back in your seat' sensation in lower rpm, I'd personally much rather have 210 whp natural aspirated vs 218 whp with forced induction as the merits of n/a simplicity in design and operation heavily outweigh trying to get that old turbo system to work plus dealing with the many other compromises a FD negotiates.
And yeah I totally agree that many consumers would've potentially overlooked fuel consumption and reliability issues for 50-100 more hp. Funny enough, I've also known a lot of people over the years who have previously and continue to hold prejudices against the s1 for above mentioned cosmetic / design issues. Renesis reliability is a myth just like REW and for any machine to have a full lifespan while also working at full efficiency, the minimum requirement is proper knowledge of maintenance and operation.
Last edited by Federighi; 10-22-23 at 12:28 PM. Reason: grammer for clarity
10-23-23, 08:38 AM
#558
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out of the three Rx8's i had most didn't have any of the updates, and they were for sure in the shop multiple times for the problems in the bulletins.
conclusion was that some dealerships can't read.
10-23-23, 08:42 AM
#559
Rotary Enthusiast
Miata is Always the Answer
10-23-23, 10:30 AM
#560
this was totally my experience with the local dealer here.
when my coils crapped out on me, my instinct was to just fix them myself and basically move on with my life. that would have been best. however, i allowed someone to talk me into taking the car to the dealer. the car was barely 4 years old and i owned for a little over a year at that point. they showed me all the TSBs and whatnot, so i figured what the hell ... why not? biggest mistake of my automotive life!
not only did they use my exhaust (RB) as "the reason" for everything ... including the front main seal leaking ... but the car was towed to them, and when i finally had enough of the ordeal, it was towed back to me in pieces. i had to reassemble it. i fixed the coils, but ended having to pay someone to reprogram my keys. to this day, the car still thinks the passenger rear door is open all the time. so, on top of all the BS, it turns out THEY broke it, too!
i was so bummed that at one point i actually thought about selling everything and putting rotaries behind me ... but ... as you can see ....
when my coils crapped out on me, my instinct was to just fix them myself and basically move on with my life. that would have been best. however, i allowed someone to talk me into taking the car to the dealer. the car was barely 4 years old and i owned for a little over a year at that point. they showed me all the TSBs and whatnot, so i figured what the hell ... why not? biggest mistake of my automotive life!
not only did they use my exhaust (RB) as "the reason" for everything ... including the front main seal leaking ... but the car was towed to them, and when i finally had enough of the ordeal, it was towed back to me in pieces. i had to reassemble it. i fixed the coils, but ended having to pay someone to reprogram my keys. to this day, the car still thinks the passenger rear door is open all the time. so, on top of all the BS, it turns out THEY broke it, too!
i was so bummed that at one point i actually thought about selling everything and putting rotaries behind me ... but ... as you can see ....
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j9fd3s (10-23-23)
10-24-23, 10:16 PM
#561
Last edited by madhat1111; 10-24-23 at 10:23 PM.
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HiWire (10-24-23)
10-25-23, 12:44 AM
#562
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Yeah I want to believe, but don't forget how long we have all been strung along...
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Neo (10-25-23)
10-25-23, 06:21 AM
#563
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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There will be design elements popping up for future models. Doubt this will ever see production. Especially the drivetrain.
One can only hope. Don’t hold your breath though.
One can only hope. Don’t hold your breath though.
10-25-23, 08:41 AM
#564
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mr2peak (10-25-23)
10-25-23, 11:01 AM
#565
the ND is a little weird in that they are all mostly the same. sure you can get Recaros, and Brembos and Bilsteins, but they aren't huge performance boosters.
i was going to post times for the ND cup cars, but at Laguna (1:41's!) and then i haven't seen an FD go around Laguna in a decade (or more, and it was on fire at the time too)
i was going to post times for the ND cup cars, but at Laguna (1:41's!) and then i haven't seen an FD go around Laguna in a decade (or more, and it was on fire at the time too)
10-25-23, 12:11 PM
#567
https://youtu.be/988zMcZ5Iv8?si=HZQjIZd4xT5deklq
maybe the Rx7 is the best https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/24/...o-show-reveal/
maybe the Rx7 is the best https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/24/...o-show-reveal/
oh and the car is very femme and the style imo looks like a cross between a Jag F type and Lotus Exige. It's like the maz design team didn't even try. Imo, there hasn't been a 'good looking' car with true Japanese styling in years. When every manufacturer attempts to look European (talking to you Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc), we all lose.
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11-02-23, 11:40 AM
#569
Agreed on F-Type sleekness and Elise/Exige rear clam design cues, but I think it is a beautiful design and am not seeing those hints as a detraction. The RX-8 was a bit more of a chonker four-door four seater, but the RX-7 always had femme design cues as a dedicated sportscar lightweight two-seater
An EV with a 400lb penalty over an FD3S is a good direction, and could be great if they can master the balance, handling, acceleration, braking and all for real excitement vs "RX-7" badged bait and switch schtick and gimmick
The alcantara carbon fiber driver focused, minimalist interior is a real win here too if the production car isn't far off
My wife just popped over and even said "that looks better than most of the revamps they have done recently like the Supra"
I am going to table her response here for future reference if anything close to this hits a showroom - "remember when you said it would be a great addition next to the FD3S?!"
An EV with a 400lb penalty over an FD3S is a good direction, and could be great if they can master the balance, handling, acceleration, braking and all for real excitement vs "RX-7" badged bait and switch schtick and gimmick
The alcantara carbon fiber driver focused, minimalist interior is a real win here too if the production car isn't far off
My wife just popped over and even said "that looks better than most of the revamps they have done recently like the Supra"
I am going to table her response here for future reference if anything close to this hits a showroom - "remember when you said it would be a great addition next to the FD3S?!"
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