No turbo and the ND makes torque early. Also no transition kick. It moves, just not in an exciting way in a straight line

 

it's still under 200hp. pretty sad when gm 4 bangers are putting out like 300. I had an ATS cadillac with the 2.0 turbo which looked tiny in the engine bay. Motor was strong, styling was good, breaks were great...but the backseat sucked and it just did not feel very refined...

I would still rather drive my older SV maxima with a v6 and much mire comfortable...both in feel and driving.

Mazda has sucked out loud at putting out anything considered to be a decent HP sports car. I have never driven the miata or MX 5, but if you're already getting into a tiny death trap you may as well give some umpf!

 

They are very light, like 2200lbs or so. That 200hp pulls like 300hp in a "normal" car. A 2200lb 300hp car would be a much more serious thing, and might miss the mark of being affordable, easy on consumables and relatively inexpensive to insure. You can always slap a turbo kit on it... too bad Flying Miata isn't building turn-key monsters anymore

 

The Miata is not built to be as powerful as possible. It’s built for balance and driving experience…I don’t give crap about power numbers when it’s as eager and fun to drive as an NA (I can’t speak to ND since haven’t driven)

Their more commodity cars like the Cx-5 also aren’t built for max power, but instead usable power in daily use. Their methods for drivetrain design are way better at that than some others…I’m looking at you 2.3L ecoboost and 10sp auto. I *HATE* that drive train. I never thought I’d hate a turbo.

 

I can freely admit, a car can be too fast to fully enjoy on the road. My FD is that way. It's build for fast corners on track, and the limits are touch to really explore on the road.

That all said, I don't think any Miata I've ever been in feels "balanced" to me. They all feel woefully underpowered. That push in the back that was referred to earlier is essential to me, numbers be damned. Even a buddies Jackson Racing supercharged NA seemed like what it should have felt like stock. Maybe the new ones are way better, I'd love to drive one.

 

I drove an ND Mx5 when it first came out and my first thought was, this feels very similar to an FD. Did not feel as quick though

 

I once rode in a 1.6L Miata (NA chassis) with a small shot of nitrous, it was very entertaining. It's been a while, but I think it was about 25hp worth of nitrous.

 

For those who haven’t, they managed to group some stock miatas for a little fun…



I doubt the Miata will ever feel like the FD. I’ve owned an NC and it’s fine up to about 90km/hr or so. It completely runs out of steam at faster speeds. It was never designed to be a power house. That being said, now that we know the successor is electrical, it’ll finally have grunt to back up its ethos.

I know it’ll be awhile longer but I think the upcoming Tesla roadster will be the end all and be all of anything sporty. Electric is the future.

 

Another HUGE plus with the MX-5 is the aftermarket. We have a '22 RF club that's pretty much stock and I've been thinking of throwing some swaybars on it. There are so many choices that it's almost confusing! Here's another example of what I'm talking about.. Edelbrock makes a supercharger kit for the Miata.

https://www.edelbrock.com/mazda-miata-superchargers

 

Here's some anecdotal input on the ND. I did an open track day at Thunderhill 3-mile east last year with some racing acquaintances (competitive license, competed 24 hrs of TH, crazy sim rig; I'd estimate at least a thousand hours of real world + simulated experience on that specific track, etc) and their RF with light mods (intake, cat-back, custom mazdaedit tune, Ohlins DFV, custom alignment, Titan7 wheels, A052's, etc) was very capable / quick for what it was imo. The ND (on empty tank) was about even to my (half tank+ to full tank) heavily modded RX8 (signifiant weight reduction, stock HP). IIRC, we were lapping consistently right around 2 min even.

And I couldn't agree more that the amount of aftermarket support for the miata is nothing short of incredible.

 

the ND>NC. the two cars theoretically share some DNA, but you couldn't get two cars to feel more different.

 

Noble/Rossion is probably where I would pivot. 15 years younger than my FD. Well balanced track/street combo car. Lots of readily available OEM parts including a Duratec that should last 150k (seemingly even the windshield is bolt-on from a Lotus). $55-$70k is certainly more pricey than the average FD but hardly crazy.

 

I've been following the Noble groups for a while. Build quality is closer to a kit car than a production car. All of a sudden, you can be looking at Ariels and Ultimas and other semi-track day specials. There's a bunch of great kits out there, but they aren't really road cars. Maybe your FD is more track day special oriented than most?

 

I see what you're saying. Nobles aren't GT cars, probably not a true daily driver. My FD is just for weekend fun and I think the Noble could be the same. I haven't tracked my FD and I don't think I will. It's a nights and weekends restoration and the thought of breaking stuff all over again is too hard to deal with. Noble feels like it would be less persnickety when it comes to repairs and parts. I might be rationalizing... I haven't done any deep research but it's one of the few out there that checks the same boxes for me as the FD.

 

With the talk on Miatas, I will say this on my RX-8 daily driver -

It is nice to have a car that I can drive on the streets fairly full-out, have a blast doing that, and not have people looking at me like "look at that idiot driving unsafely". Miata is similar from everything I've heard. It's a fun car to drive.

But, this makes for an entertaining daily driver but NOT a full out sports car that can pin you to your seat.

RX-8 is a great car and I fully enjoy mine as a daily but you gotta have that power to really make things fun, that is 100% true.

RX-8 with an REW swap would be very entertaining but at this point that swap would just be BIG bank to do.

Dale

 

The Toyota/GR 3 cylinder turbo engine looks like a decent future 13B-REW alternative in terms of power/delivery l, mass and chassis dynamic depending on future prices and reliability.

 

A turbo kitted NC miata engine, trans and subframe would be a very nice RX-8 swap as well and can use 100% factory parts (minus turbo kit).

 

for me, i can honestly say that the GR Supra is the first car (short of a 997 or a 981) that makes me want it. if i had an FD, and were going thinking of replacing it, then i'd go with a GR Supra.

 

The 4 cylinder 5th gen Supra would be a lot closer to the FD than the 6 cylinder one.

Still plenty of power potential and better handling/balance.

Keiichi Tsuchiya and gang praised the 4 cyl Supra handling over the 6 cyl model when testing at Gunma sports center touge course.

 

Something I felt worth mentioning is that a s1 RX8 with a healthy Renesis typically puts down 190-210 rwhp (quality of rebuild is essential here) while tipping the scales at 2886 lbs (and up depending on year, trim, etc).

Long time ago, I remember a Super Street or Import Tuner article featuring a test FD doing multiple dyno runs before and after mods, etc and iirc, put something like 218.x rwhp stock while weighing 2800 lbs (or so, depending..., etc).

All things considered, those respective OEM numbers are rather comparable imo and in my experience after owning both vehicles, I wonder why more FD owners don't realize how potent of a package the RX8 actually is. Obviously on paper the FD has a better p/w ratio with cutting edge tech of the time but the modern engineering of the RX8 (chassis, suspension, etc) prove the RX8 to be a solid contender imo. A healthy Renesis pulls hard throughout 6-9k rpm (with the added benefit of immediate n/a power delivery) whereas the REW requires much more driver input and finesse to coax power delivery and iirc has a finicky power band because of the sequential operation and really only has jam from 5-7k rpm. And the RX8 even has enough room for transportation, travel, etc plus a modest little trunk.

Anyone remember the article? I got rid of my magazine collection years ago. Be awesome to see someone post it up here

 

i don't remember that particular article, but i probably have it somewhere in my magazine collection.

you're absolutely right though. the Rx-8 is comparable on paper and i know it has been lauded, both at the time of it's release and in the years since, for it's handling - even over the FD! unfortunately, i'm not in a position to compare from experience (because my one time driving an FD was in a lot at an auction), but i can speak volumes about the Rx-8 because i've owned mine since 2007. i'll ry to keep my thoughts brief ... and hopefully coherent.

i don't think there is a simple answer to the question you posed though - why more FD owners are/were unaware of how good the Rx-8 actually is. i think context has a lot to do with it. i also think that by the time the Rx-8 came along, a lot more "younger" people had access to the FD and its serious quirks had been sorted. the rest could simply be dealt with by modifying it with a smorgasbord of available parts in the aftermarket. the FD was a warrior, born in true war-times (the Z32, the 3000GT, the NSX and the JZA80) and it had a mission. i think the Rx-8 was meant to appeal to more people, and we all know what happens when you try to please more people. it came along in the times of the Z33 and the S2000 - the landscape was vastly different.

i think reliability plays a part as well, which is kinda weird because i'm old enough to remember when the FD was introduced, and i remember reading about a whole bunch of them going up in flames. however, the things that seem to go wrong with the Rx-8 and Renesis, i think, points to a change in Mazda's value system. i think the Rx-8 was shrouded in gimmickry, and i think Rx-7 guys recognize it and might not buy into it. i think when an Rx-7 guy/gal sees a car with a rotary engine, there is an innate need to compare it to an Rx-7, and even if said car is not claiming to be an Rx-7, then it will be overlooked because it is not.

 

You guys don’t have to tell me about the handling of the 8. A few of us were invited out by Mazda to do a few laps at TMSP when the NC debut. We had a blast and gave us the opportunity to see how the entire range worked on the track. At the time getting into an 8 was out of the question. It was above 50g’s CDN on the road. However, it’s smaller sibling was cheaper and a lot more fun.
sure, it didn’t have the grunt the 8 had, but since it inherited its chassis, it handled better than it’s bigger brother. Provided you forgave some of the chassis flex since it was a convertible. Would I have loved to get into an 8 at the time? Of course! But I couldn’t afford it, nor did I think I ever would. Instead I settled for the NC. Daily driven for 10yrs and racked up 265k km’s on it before having to let her go.
As luck would have it, an R3 popped up at the time. I couldn’t resist the offer. Traded in the Miata for the 8.
only had 48k on the clock. Here I was thinking I’d keep this vehicle for life. Since the Miata lasted me so long and didn’t ask anything major the entire time. Unfortunately, even though it received all the updates a series 2 got, reliability was not in the cards. In 5yrs of daily use, only managed to put on an additional 60k km’s before a dreaded known issue reared its ugly head. Nobody really discusses it, but even the series 2 has a gearbox anomaly. They’re known to pop out of 3rd or 4th gear. For no reason! Imagine my surprise…
I debated hard about doing a tranny swap to an FD. With the way economy is right now, a daily has to be reliable. I can’t afford to have the car down for weeks. On top of that, this is just the tranny. Imagine I fix this, and the next thing to give up is the engine (which by the way, I was willing to accept when I decided to pick up the R3). So at 108k on the clock, I was racing to find a replacement vehicle before winter comes around.
As much fun as I had with the 8, it takes a fair share of funds to keep her on the road. Fuel and oil consumption is fairly high. Again, willing to accept since this is a rotary.
There comes a time when logic and reasoning takes over. Having the FD as my summer ride, I didn’t really need another “sporty” vehicle as a daily. I considered moving back into another NC but then I remembered everything I’ll have to live with. Mainly the lack of power. I’m not sure what vehicles you guys have to encounter on a daily bases, but having an NC and attempting to get around a garden variety SUV nowadays becomes a chore. So many vehicles now have a crazy amount of power.
Knowing this, I decided to finally take the plunge and get a Tesla. I’ve been wanting one since they debuted. Again, way way to expensive to justify at the time. But it’s been about 12-13yrs now. With the introduction of the Model 3, I wouldn’t have to sacrifice all the sportiness I was used to when I had the 8.
I can’t emphasize this enough. Best automotive decision I’ve made ever!
I would say if you’re a true Mazda enthusiast, getting the Tesla is natural progression. I wish Mazda was at this level. Don’t get wrong, as far as legacy auto makers go, I still root for Mazda. Let’s be honest though, they’ve had to do some serious compromising to stay in the game. It’s a shame, but understandable.
If you’re looking for a great daily that has a lot of what Mazda use to have, consider the Tesla. You won’t be disappointed.

 

YEP, even the stock the FD was a weapon on a big track. I guarantee it would smoke a stock miata at VIR. I think I ran 2:12 (will try to find vid to verify I could be off, getting old LOL) in a stock FD with OEM size track tires. I think the tires were victoracers or not HOOS or anything fast.

Memory is off It was a bolt on FD so PFS SMIC, exhaust etc.... so likely making 250 or so WHP or 300 flywheel.

Anyway, I'm guessing a stock FD would easily beat the ND on a big track as long as the race was short lol. The FD is no joke from 70 to 120 which is probably where the ND doesn't do well.

 

No such thing as a downpipe, exhaust and tune for 80hp+ in RX8 land. Very few FDs are still making stock power, who here has a bone stock FD? Or even a stock FC Turbo?

That said, 8s are the better track chassis. There's a team here that races FDs and have one that's been slightly lengthened, with RX8 rear suspension grafted on. Also have a few other RX8's, both renesis and 13brew, and the 8s are better on track. Longer wheelbase and better rear suspension.

 

ND ran a 3:17 on the VIR grand course which is actually decent: Lightning Lap Results 2006 to 2023: Every Car, Every Lap Time (caranddriver.com)

A stock FD is pretty close to a stock s2k (hot day s2k cold day FD) which ran a 3:15.

I'm guess because of the size and weight the ND is a hoot. I may have to grab one soon. Don't like putting miles on the FD and don't like driving the truck.