Rx7_Gremlin

hey guys, I just got a 1990 RX7 GTU with a 13B motor about 2 months ago. The guy i bought it from said he had it as a everyday car for 17 or so months before and it ran without any problems since he had it beforel he sold it to me.
Anyways, about two weeks ago i parked it at school for about 3 hours or so, running fine and all when i stopped. When I come back out to start it again all it did was click. No turning over or anything, just a loud click. We pulled the starter out and checked it, seems perfectly fine. The oil in it is fine, everything seems fine that we've checked, except when we try to manually crank it with a socket wrench with the spark plugs out, instead of turning the shaft and making the pst pst sound, the shaft doesn't budge AT ALL! Because of this the only thing we could think of it being, though a rare case, is Carbon Lock.
So we put ATF in it and let it sit for about a week. Today we tried it again, nothing. So we tried the push start again, but did it backwards like some of you mentioned. The first time we did it we got one pst sound but thats it. After that we didn't get a thing, nothing. The belts don't move again like before. Now were down to the last straw besides towing it and trying to push start it that way. Can anyone please help me on what else might be a way to fix this or anything? Or am I just screwed and have to get a new engine or car?

If you need anymore specs just let me know, i'll try to provide it, I'm not fully knowledgable on these cars, but i know the basics pretty much. Thanks alot in advance to you all.

cmanasseri

Sorry about the trouble, what a bad first post. Your living one of my fears. I don't know much about these rotary engines but read this board all the time. If your car was running I would have suggested the "water trick" to get rid of the carbon. Do a search on "water trick" or "carbon water vacuum" and you see posts about it. Basically you take a container of water and let the running engine suck it through the vacuum lines to get rid of the carbon. You need to keep the engine at around 3k rpm or it will stall. I have been doing this on a regular basis (before changing the oil) since learning about it. Hope one of the "gurus" here can help you.

Good Luck,
Chuck

Dlbgirl

iTrader: (1)

I sold him the car, and it ran the best of my 4 RX-7's. The compression was fine, and the engine was sitting at around 105k miles, it never overheated, and I changed the oil and filter every 2-3 months. It is hard to imagine that the car ran great when shut off, and carbon locked in just 3 hours?!?! We did try the suggestions we saw in our searches on siezed engines, but I would really like replies from anyone who has seen this first hand. I feel terrible that this kid has this problem after only having it for 2 months...

Capn' Wankel

I am interested to find out what the problem is as well......I have a buddy who had this happen to him just recently as well and has not been able to figure out what the problem is.

-Lee

ViperKillerWannabe

You can't do the water trick on a car that does not run!!! Sorry, but it really sounds seized to me. Maybe someone put some sugar in your gas tank?

Rx7_Gremlin

Lol, no, nobody at my school knows me well enough, let alone hate me enough to put stuff in the tank, plus you have to open it from inside the car which was locked with the alarm on

Rx7_Gremlin

To me this looks like a case of **** happens and in my case happens alot.....

introVert

Damn, grem- shitty luck there for sure! Really hope you get it all sorted and post back with good news...

Dlbgirl

iTrader: (1)

bump...

SureShot

I assume it still has the ATF in it.
Are you using 4th gear to push crank the motor?
Rocking it forward & back in 4th gives better leverage.

Dlbgirl

iTrader: (1)

Yes, it still has the ATF in it, but I would like to put it in other places to work all the seals, however, it would be quite a chore getting it into the exhaust port! Anyway, we did go with 4th gear and since the clutch is new, it completely locks up the tires...no slipping. This engine is REALLY siezed. I am hoping someone who has cured this before will respond, because unless someone has a better solution, I am to the point of towing the car in reverse and dropping the clutch in 4th. It has become very frustrating for me, and surely more-so for Gremlin. What would cause this engine to sieze in 3 hours???

SureShot

Since you said it wouldn't budge by turning the shaft bolt with a wrench, it's either a foreign object or an adhesive in the chamber.

Wait a minute - - what about a jammed starter?

I'd pull the starter next..

Dlbgirl

iTrader: (1)

That was my first guess...the starter actually came off before anything was done! We have tried to free it up this whole time without the starter. I am waiting until it frees up before I put the starter on and the trailing plugs back in. But not only will it not budge turning the shaft wrench, it locks the wheels up after pushing it backwards at probably 5-10 mph down a hill and dropping the clutch in 4th. Again, this engine was in great shape. I got it from a one owner old man that was involved in a slight fender bender, but insurance totalled out the vehicle. I received a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty with this engine (pretty bold for a motor with a little over 90K miles!!!) and I really took care of it. Never once did I have ANY problem aside from occasional slight flooding. Foreign object or adhesive in the chamber??? How? Even the air filter was newer. More suggestions?

cmanasseri

I guess ViperKillerWannabe didn't read my post correctly. I said "If the car was running"...anyway in this case it's like saying "If he had a million dollars...".

Bottom line, sounds like the engine is gone and not coming back.

Chuck

ViperKillerWannabe

Just because no one knows you well enough to mess with you does not mean that they won't. They might be extremely jealous that the new guy has a better car than them. Besides, it takes more than 3 hours for sugar to really mess up your engine. Usually it takes a couple hours of running for it to completely gum up the works. So, it could have been one of your neighbors. As for not being able to open the gas door because the lever's on the inside, a butter knife works pretty well for this. I have to do that because mine doesn't work at all.

hypntyz7

Yeah dude, that engine is toast inside. There has been internal damage that is irreversible except by rebuild.

What generally happens here, despite the name, is that when the stock apex seals wear down enough, and you shut the engine down one day, one will actualy roll sideways partially out of the rotors tip, and wedge itself between it and the housing. When you try and move it, either way, you're generally driving a stuck seal farther into something it shouldnt be against, one way or another (rotor or rotorhousing). Obviously you're only doing more damage the more you try and move it. Not only do you have to rebuild, but youll also need a replacement rotor and rotorhousing in most cases.

Im NOT saying carbonlock doesnt exist...just that true carbon lock is much more rare than the condition described above, but both exhibit the same symptoms, and are both referred to as carbon lock.

Rx7_Gremlin

How often does something like that happen? Is it pretty rare or what?

Dlbgirl

iTrader: (1)

Mike, after reading Kevin's post, I am convinced the motor is dead...however, if you get another engine, used or rebuilt, I will put it in for you cheap...maybe $100. Give me a call if you decide to do that.

hypntyz7

With my high level of experience dealing with old 7's and core engines alike, my estimates are as follows, specific to 1 and 2 gens (FD's are a bit different):

percentage of engines that die from:

-blown apex seals 85%

of that 85%, probably 65% is from just plain old worn out apex seals that get weak and break, and the rest is either detonation on turbo models or abuse on nonturbo models.

-blown coolant seals 10% (of this 10%, half are from one overheating episode, such as a busted hose etc.)

-carbon lock or seal wedge as described above 3%

-misc. damage or circumstances 2%

So no, you can say carbon lock in one if it's forms is not very common, but not unheard of either. I personally see about one or 2 locked engines per year.

cagefreak

OMG!! I just went through the same thing. Sad to hear that there's really no hope. Guess I'll just have to buy a rebuild or a rebuild kit and a housing.

Guess I was just in denial. LOL. Oh well.

Rx7_Gremlin

Yeah, so far i'm thinking i might just get a new car all together, a newer car, probably not an RX7, I've found out it just happens in my family that we have really bad luck with used cars, my mom's first few used cars when she was younger always jacked up something like this, and now she just gets new or close to new cars, which is what i might end up doing since now i have the time to work alot more and pay that kind of thing off. I'll give you a call later this week or so hopefully when i find out fully what i'm going to do, Jean, so we can work out what to do if i do go the route of buying another car.

Rx7_Gremlin

Yeah, so far i'm thinking i might just get a new car all together, a newer car, probably not an RX7, I've found out it just happens in my family that we have really bad luck with used cars, my mom's first few used cars when she was younger always jacked up something like this, and now she just gets new or close to new cars, which is what i might end up doing since now i have the time to work alot more and pay that kind of thing off. I'll give you a call later this week or so hopefully when i find out fully what i'm going to do, Jean, so we can work out what to do if i do go the route of buying another car.

Rx7_Gremlin

Ok, I'm going to put a new engine in the car i've decided, but i don't know where to get one, i'm looking to spend only about 1000 or so for a rebuilt or something if thats possible, can anyone help me find one or something where i don't get ripped off and get a crappy motor?

hypntyz7

www.rotaryresurrection.com.