carbonRX

id need camber adjustment bars wouldn't i? the s-techs are a 1.5" drop so im assuming id need camber adjustment bars.
ik when you drop your car without adjusting camber the inside of your tires get tore up bad

RETed

1) I never claimed anything "superior" about KYB's - I said they were "best bang-for-the-buck" - to which you never retorted.
2) That article was to prove all that Japan **** is RICE, period.


Your debate skills suck.
You're totally getting off-track.


Last time I checked, Bilstein did not build dampers for any of the manufacturer works F1 race cars.
Don't even mention both in the same sentence; that's an insult to F1 engineers.


It's a godamn stock OEM replacement.
Why the **** would you use them with lowering springs?
Why you blaming the GR2's when it's the lowering springs that **** up the geometry?
The shocks have NOTHING to do with ride height...and thus suspension geometry.
You really should shut the **** up already, cause you have no idea what you're talking about.
You realize it's a bannable offense for talking **** out of your ***?


And so is your 16-way, 20-way, 32-way, bazzillion-way adjustments on almost all the Japan built coilovers that you seem to admire....
The link PROVE this.
You contradicted yourself yet again.


What the **** does this supposed to mean?


You're one scary ******...
You obvious don't know what the **** you're talking about, but you make like you're the authority on the subject matter.
I quote 3rd party sources that poke holes in your replies, but yet you don't acknowledge that you're wrong.


I highly doubt it.
I've fucked with Moton / JRZ / Penske / Leda.
So unless you spent over US$5,000 PER CORNER, I'm not impressed.
I don't have to look at anything you own; I'm already shaking my head going "dumbass..."


-Ted

Ks86Fc

I put KYB's on my 96 SS with 2" drop springs, drove like a freakin Indy car...

Asterisk

iTrader: (3)

For a laugh? Anyway, I always hear the FWD guys praise TEIN, and like ALL the RWD guys say that it's just too damn soft and shitty, and you can get better handling for the money from other brands.

Also, in Japan, **** like HKS coilovers cost way less, because they dont have to ship em, distribute em, and do all that other **** they need to do to get em to the Stores in the USA. Also, salary is higher in Japan along with cost of living, so to Japanese enthusiasts, the price of the HKS units feels like the price of the KYB units to you here... Our JIC is their moton in terms of how they view quality.

This is how it was explained to me by someone who lives and tunes cars over there.

OH yeah, so, to them, TEIN is like KYB is to us: ****!

EDIT: not that I wouldnt get a pair. They work realy well with either RSR or Ground Control Sleeves if you're on a budget!
Look at the magazine "Grass Root Motorsports" this is a very common setup that they see all the time.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Ban this moron.

Or at least give him a Breathalizer test.

Asterisk

iTrader: (3)

Ted, not to sound gay, but, I love you dude! and /\ = Pfucking owned!

flamin-roids

I like the KYB GR-2's. They are cheap and paired with racing beat springs they made my FB handle amazingly.

rx713bt

iTrader: (4)

Yup, KYBs are good and cheap shocks. Ted is right on...

gxlbiscuit

Anyone who says this in an rx7 forum cant be taken serious.....

"go yard hunting, locate 4 good 2ed gen shocks, buy them, if you dont have the power under the hood to notice the difference in handlening, it wont matter yet."

yes go find some really old shocks OFF A JUNKED CAR.. And power and handling are two separate things. my stock slow *** s2000 has uberloads of handling and is missing 100 HP. What are you saying to all the n/a sevens and miatas, let alone the N/A track cars that would probably hand you your butt and then some.. stop talking/posting shut up and read more. On that statement alone you just said you know nothing about a a handling car or how to set it up so how the hell can you recommend or not recommend what someone else should or shouldnt buy. When you learn enough through reading and being involved in more than what you think you know to be cool and correct (which has already been proven to be wrong) feel free to speak but i think you need some toilet paper for your mouth cuz you are talking out of your ***... not everyone has your funds and some people have to be a lil more concious on how they spend their money. There is nothing wrong with knowin when not to comment (stops you from looking dumb)

jazzmanbob

I have been running these for a little over a year now with great results. I have teamed them up with Racing Beat springs (the only ones I found specific for the convertible) and after tweaking the adjustments I feel the car is handling better than ever. BTW I took off a set of tokiko's thet were about 2 years old as they were leaking with less than 5000 km. There no doubt in my mind that I would have much more adjustability and better performance from good coil-overs but I don't race and I had a budget to keep to. I also installed some Suspension techniques sway bars and Energy suspension urethane bushings. Shocks and sway bars were bought from Summit Racing.
I have the mazdatrix rear camber adjuster link and also the front camber adjusters.

darksider

to the original poster, go to mod a car and get the agx with the rsr springs. i hear they give you better performance and clearance for around the same price as tiens springs.

blwn rtr 89'

iTrader: (5)

first off, compareing a 80 gen car, to an s2k is wrong, doubble wish bone on all 4 compaired to the 2ed gen lay out. honda wins all day just off design, thats like complaining that your geo metro isnt as quick as a z06 and wondering why.

the 13b stock or modded for that matter can only be pushed so far, just as you can max out the control capibility with to much power, and not propper suspension layout.

the same gose for over kill on suspension, with and comparibly underpowered powerhouse.

in idiot terms( it dont matter none, cuz you aint going fast enough for you to notice it)
that extra benefit is not needed.

you will just end up ******* up **** because of it, stiffer shocks=more stress on mounting points=more vibrations=YOUR ****(CAR)FALLS APART SLOWLY.

its like ripples in water, one change everything is effected, support mods if you will

theres no point to doing any thing to springs or shocks, unless you change everything, bad things could result from it.

oem replacemens-ok

junk yard parts=ok

frankinstine suspension=you an idiot son

as for the critisam of yard parts, if you buy anything form a aftermarket shop that asks for a core, newsflash(just like a yard part) not always bad if you find a good one and is cost effective.

your just plain stupid if you thing every thing in the yard is unfit to be used again

and ted

i said(f1 worthy) meaning its up there but not above the bar

and once again gxlbiscut, your an idiot, anybody unable to see the tarnshed treasure pile in a junk yard aut to be shot, (where do you think all those useful jdm front clips come from) i guess you thought sence its jdm, its polished and cleaned daily by the japs to make it extra special for us americans.

Evil Aviator

The KYB AGX dampers are good for street and autocross, but you could go cheaper and get the Tokico blues if you are short on cash. I think you can do better than the Tein ricer springs.

That figures.

Healing

On www.shox.com, they are selling the Bilstein HD inserts for FCs. They need to be fitted to the stock shock housing, like the Konis, but they're like $400 too. I'd say give that a shot if you don't want to go with KYB.

fastrotaries

I've been autocrossing my FC for a almost a decade now. I started with the Tokico HP's aka the "blues" and did really well. Currently I'm running the KYB AGX's and love them. GO see how many rx7's are running Bilsteins at national level and you won't see many. They don't offer anything for the FC, and I don't think there is even much of a selection for the FD or RX8. on the same not not alot of people are running Japanese name brand stuff either. HKS..Greddy...etc. Serious autocrossers usually stick to Koni's, Tokico, & KYB. Yes there is the European camp running Bilsteins (they're good...I have them on my minivan) but they're not the end all of shocks and struts. if you still have original equipment of the 7...stock OEM replacement will be a night and day improvement.

GO with what your budget allows.

check out www.shox.com pretty good prices. lots of choices.

carbonRX

016. KYB AGX Shocks 1986 - 1992 AGX Externally Adjustable gas shocks. Price is for a set of 4. 499.00 Add to Wish list
Add to Cart

found a better deal on ebay for like 355 for a set. looking at other spring options now.

RETed

WRONG.
"Stiffer shocks" implies higher compression (and rebound) rates.
The responsibility of the damper is to MINIMIZE oscillations from the springs (compression and rebound).
If you're counting on your shocks to stiffen your suspension, you have no ******' clue what you are doing, period.

We run Koni dampers with Eibach ERS springs with Ground Control coilover sleeves.
I guess we don't know what the **** we're doing...


It's not even close...
Comparing aftermarket OEM replacements with ANYTHING race is just plain stupid.
It doesn't even compare to Indy cars...
It doesn't even compare to *GASP* NASCAR cars...
If you knew what goes into design and building race-level (suspension) components, you wouldn't even have brought this up.
Yes, some of the race technology *trickles* down to aftermarket OEM stuff (i.e. mono-tube / remote reservior / adjustable), but don't compare them side-by-side.

You really should shut your ***.


-Ted

carbonRX

http://www.hopupracing.com/rsdosuslospm1.html
are these the ones i buy?

Black91n/a

blwn rtr 89': No one believes you, no one cares what you say, stop trying, you're just making yourself look like a jackass.

Everything I've ever read here and on other boards has said that the KYB AGX is a really good budget minded setup for adjustable shocks. There's a number of people racing them at autocrosses and in road racing in IT class cars and doing just fine. Sure they're not the best when compared to top end dampers, but for the price they're damned good. You're the only one telling anyone otherwise, and you're loosing.

Those Tein S-Tech springs aren't the best, they give less wheel and tire room up front than stock or other lowering springs. They're ****, but Tein coilovers aren't. I can say this from first hand experiance, how many of you who bash them have ever tried them? I bet none.

Tein coilovers have good damping as can be evidenced by the numerous shock dynos I've seen, they're durable as is evidenced by the countless number of positive reviews I've read after many tens of thousands of street miles driven, they're inexpensive as these things go, and they're rebuiildable and re-valvable in the US. That's a winning combination to me. I've got them, as do many of the local autocrossers and they're all quite happy with them. They may be softer than many other coilovers, but that's because most of the other stuff out there's too damned stiff (I did replace the front springs to get a better balance though). Stiffer doesn't equal better! At a track day this summer an instructor freind of mine used my Tein equipped car to show a novice what a good handling car feels like, and he's a racer, so that's a pretty good endorsement.

carbonRX

how much of a drop do i get with the rsR lowering springs? bc i have 17" rims with low profile yokohamas and am worried that if i drop the front my tires will rub the wheel well. i also measured the distance from top of tire to fender and its about 1 3/4".

xtremeskier97

Wow...this was so interesting I read the entire thread.

Good show Ted...good show!

metal

Amen, encore. I need new suspension as well

Bunchies

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty happy with my koni yellows. I only run em in the rear, but if you want a cheaper shock, you don't want to know what I have in the front.

RETed

Scratch that comment on KYB making Cusco internals...
Shows my brain is that fried. :P

Showa made the internals on the Cusco stuff.
This used to be true a few years ago, but I dunno if this still holds true now.
Cusco has changed their coilover line at least twice since I heard about the Showa thing.


-Ted

blwn rtr 89'

iTrader: (5)

how many other statments you made are vindacated?

as for stress points on stiffer struts/shocks, look at it like this, go ride in a van over speed bumps, my guess is yoy will bounce up and down conciderabily

that being said on stifffer coilovers, with hardend bound and rebound settings, along with less capiable travel room(assuming its lowered)

one force must negate the other,

you will not bounce as much, it will fell like a stiff bump up then down, then at rest

with this, the less the kenetic energy it lost though the absorbing system, thus transfering it else where(OTHER POINTS TO WHICH THE SHOCK/STRUT IS MOUNTED TO)

and fasteners i.e. in his case stock **** oem bushings, on sway bar, top mounts, ect....

what do you think these new pressures that where never designed to absorb that much energy do.................they fail eventually

******* up alignment, oem sway bars and mounts, tie rods, steering responce and play in the configuration.

as to trust these parts like the agx, (this is where you got me all wrong)

bang for buck+
all around satisfactory+
never confused with totl+

priced and marketed on those who drive agressive, but not compettive-
cheap enough for any one to own-

these are the main negitives among others on account of, to those who are rather cheap with there car by choice or not,

they look to first upgrade suspension systems buy shocks/coils/struts/lowering springs.

this is not correct,

e.x. in a piston motor, in order to gain power, easy concept right more fuel=more boom, simple right? ............nope

if you want more boom, gotta have more air right?.............yes

well aside from the bs mods.

more lift/duration on the cam will open the valves accordingly to allow more air to allow the fuel to go boom.

just this alone is very very bad. think for the cam as the road, this being said the bumps and pushes, springs, rockers, valves, push rods, and a timing chain has to spin the cam harder to compensate for progressive rate springs that are oem on most piston motors, along juggling the risk of valve float.

so with the cam alone being upgraded(placeing stiffer shocks on alone) now the timing chain with dampner is not strong enough for the cam to push effectively for an extended period of time.

lifters, more stress because of travel as result of cam

springs, low spring rate not capiable to keep up with the demands( could couse float, are drop the valve.

and last, valve covers to shallow for clearance of newly raised levels of rocker travel.

ssssssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooo

so that being said, the agx's are affordable and them alone as them selfs on a shelf or in a box, i consider them par

now with the newly found lower priced agx's(or any shock/sturt/coil for that matter) to the avarage tuner, or weekend warrior, these are a problem in a box if your on a budget.

in other words, to make the agx set up correct, first aqurie all of the supporting mods(which dont have to be totl, but above quality of the oem, compariably mactched to the full set up desiered.

if all angles are covered, the agx is a fine unit in it self for the budget minded(under stand; correctly buying the agx or similir, requires more than agx+springs)

so if you are going agx, DO NOT put them on and drive the car with out first installing supporting mods.

what i have against kyb, are their insufficent width of the material on the mounting areas, their ****, and the fact that the are priced for anybody with no knowledge of suspenion dynamics to think twice about buying a set, there for not knowing of the support modifactions they NEED expecially on a car more than 15 years old, that a "frugil" person can pick up form free-to$3000.
alot must be done from the begining with our 2ed gens, right from the start.

all this tougether, do you feel comfortable takeing a 80mph corner on your "new upgraded agx's" and feel safe?

if one thing fails you mught eat dirt, a wall, our for us street racers, kill some one, or **** up your car you love so much.

and if you dont belive my this week, on a common place where races go down.

and rsx and srt4 had at it my buddie in the rxs had a some coils (id like 2 say agx but i dont remember what they where)

he assumed everything was fine cuz his car was newer and it could handle the extra stress being the type s

they hit about 110, he bit a small curb, blew the front strut mount that stoped the car abruptly, the on account of no seat belt he flew outta his sun roof, went in the path of the srt4, that guy in the srt4 alone with his 3 passengers, ran his body over, locked up the wheels went through a building and everybody died except the guy driveing the srt4, hes now facing 4 counts of manslaughter and hes only 19, an one of the passengers was his girlfriend.

black 91, im not trying to be right or wrong, frankly i dont give a **** on opinions only fact and expearance, i posted to give advice to my knowldge to the op.

suspension is no joke and not mant to be taken lightly when changing it up, on all of my cars i first tune up, full brake system adiquite with power goals, internal safty, suspension, then motor.

i bet most of you all touched your motors and speed mods first.

take a few spills and watch a few people die, then i wont sound so stupid to you.