So i took my car to get an alignment done because i've been actively restoring the car this summer and i figured it could use one after installing new coilovers. I get a call saying they have modify some stuff to get the toe to be within spec. Ok seems normal to me. My father (with whom ive build the car with) goes in to check on it and they start talking to him about camber being out of wack and they started grinding the lower strut mounts to cancel out the camber. The ******* car has camber plates and they want to charge me for their mistake. What should i do. How do i know these morons didnt grind off enough to comprise the strength of part? Im going in early tomorrow to have a strong word with them...

 

Slap yourself for not telling them you have camber plates

Then politely suggest that they replace the part... Just be ready for them to say no.

 

pick me up..I'll talk to them..( I got a chihuahua in my pocket!)

Really,Go in and point out the camber plates.Tell them you want it IN writing that they will Get you New parts to fix their mistake,DO NOT pay them.
If they do not agree then Tell them you intend on calling the Police,as they damaged your car.

 

This would be a civil case not criminal, so the police are of no use to you.

Just go in and have a civil conversation about how you all can work this out.
If you're not satisfied, speak to a lawyer or file in Small Claims court.

 

I'm confused, you mentioned toe not being able to be in spec. So at first I thought they were talking about the rear, fronts should have plenty of toe adjustment. rear alignment being the rear arm mounting points

So did they grind the front or the rear strut tops, rear does nothing? How much did they grind? Factory BMW have slotted holes, but not much adjustment.

Strengthening it would either be the base plate from a strut bar, and even for the bmw's they have a plate for underneath(above the strut top, under the chasis) also.

I would not take a car with aftermarket suspension to any alignment shop, even if they offer some sort of warranty. They know nothing about performance alignments, getting big wheel fitments to work, adding camber, and in your case, what aftermarket adjustable bars and plates do.

 

Or he could waive his rights and have his case heard on this Forum..the People's Court!..(sorry man,too much Court TV.)

If they are stupid enough to grind car parts,then they may be stupid enough to get Bluffed.
Really,this should not have been done without the owner's permission.

IVAN,post the name of the SHOP.

 

Hinton automotive. Basically they had miscommunicaiton between the person talking to me and the person working on the car. I didn't hold their hand, so i paid the price. The full price of their labour. lesson learnt for being a dumbass i guess
also, I own an rx7. Im too damn broke to afford a lawyer haha

 

This may come as a surprise to you- but there are guys who are good at that, so good in fact they have shops that have been in business longer then we been alive.

My local guy is fantastic, its literally all he does.

 

There are, but they are getting harder to find. Most people "set the toe, and let it go"

 

if i have a car with adjustable anything that is NOT factory i make it a point that they know and possibly even show them what they are working with.

the blame is on both you for not telling them and them for not bothering to look or understanding the basics of alignment geometry.

i will say that once a car is lifted onto most alignment racks the strut tops are usually out of sight and out of mind. the book gives a narrow range of adjustment, but why the hell would they think it would be wise to grind the steering knuckles to get more camber is ignorant, they should have said "sorry sir, we cannot get the angles within spec because of the amount the car is lowered" to which you would say "use the camber plates, dumbass".

 

Waaaaait a second... I remember someone aligning my front end... And the computer told him to unbolt the strut tops and rotate to change the caster and camber... Aparently there are four uh... Settings for lack of a better term? They should have seen the camber plates I guess is what I'm kind of trying to get at.

Am I way off here? I was a long time ago... But you'd think that they'd at least try the rotation before doing something as drastic as grinding a mount...

But I still stick by my earlier statement.

 

Correct, the stock front strut mounts are adjustable. Rotating them will change camber and caster.

 

I 2nd that. Anybody that grinds a strut mounting must have taken it off. Hopefully the head alignment tech, or boss is not the one that did it. But whoever is in charge is probably really mad at the guy for it and is buttering everything up so the company will not take the blame for it.

hey, make the slotted holes your camber adjustment, and use your camber plate as a castor plate!!! jk

Seriously though, what is done is already done, luckily it isn't something that will screw with the performance of the car. A strut bar would keep the top holes from shifting. And in the meantime just put bigger washers to cover up their screw up so it doesn't bother you everytime you pop the hood. I would never take any of my cars there again.

Just curious, did they slot it for less camber? I know most regular alignment shops will do that, but most of the people I know like to track their cars, or sometimes get some offset that won't fit very well and factory specified camber is not what you want, so usually its making things more negative

 

yea they wanted much less camber and failed to communicate what they were doing to my car properly. Im just pissed that it never occured to the guy to look around to see why the fk the car has 2 degrees of camber to begin with? Its not set up stock like that, unless some component is broken.
Im sure most of you know this lesson but to all those who are relatively new owners, watch over anybody who touches your car like a hawk watching a mouse.

 

well we don't know everything that they did, perhaps they may have even tried swivelling the struts to change the camber and once that failed tried another approach. perhaps this tech didn't know what a camber plate looks like and only deals with stock cars, it happens.

 

This issue isn't the shops fault at all. It's 100% your responsibility for not communicating what you wanted done and how you wanted it to be done.

They tried to return the car to its correct alignment specifications assuming only the stock methods of adjustment were available.

 

I never take any cars of mine to shops anymore, key problems with shops is communication. The guy you hand your keys to/get your keys from usually isn't the one who worked on it, I've caught some guys in their lie by just asking questions they would not know the answer to unless they were under the hood.

Its not all shops but I've gotten a couple raw deals. I've managed to talk my way out of paying for anything that I didn't give the green light on and that usually works. If they argue that they were doing you a favor just tell them you didn't ask for it... and besides what's a favor if your paying for it?

I'm sure its said and done now but don't fall for the shenanigans again.
Always tell them to call and verify with you before anything is done beyond what you have specifically asked for(and be specific on what you want) and ask *** loads of questions before your wallet leaves your pocket.

 

What are you talking about? They called him and told him... They didn't provide details, and he didn't ask.

They weren't trying to get one over on him... They just didn't know what the **** they were doing. Big difference.

 

"He didn't ask questions," was kind of my point. Cars are kind of important and you should know what someone is planing to do to it. Have them explain it to you like your two years old if you have to... a mention of "oh were going to cut/grind/bend" anything is a red flag. Anything that sounds like something a desperate idiot would do in his driveway due to lack of proper tools or experience is not what I'm gonna pay some guy 25 to 45 bucks an hour to do. Another point I made was as soon as the wallet is out its game over for Q and A or I'm not paying for that...

If a mechanic or tech screws up or does a hack job you shouldn't pay for their mistakes or **** work, but if you don't really question what they are doing then you are just as bad. That was kind of my call and verify thing, after all is said and done its YOUR car and YOUR problem when their screw ups come back to haunt you. You could say I'm pretty **** when it comes to the things I depend on being in someone else's hands.

 

I've dealt with this kind of stuff for years since almost every vehicle I've ever driven has been modified and lowered to some degree. Many of us do not live in big cities and have very limited resources at our disposal for this sort of thing. For instance in my town, there are a handful of tire shops who can do alignment work, and couple of alignment specific shops run by old men. NONE of them are remotely interested in working with modified vehicles that have aftermarket suspension components. Hell, most shops are afraid to touch aftermarket WHEELS with their alignment heads.

When you do talk them into it, they act like they either don't like it, or don't know how to do it, even with you there offering guidance. Most will ignore your guidance and requests and will set it up like a standard passenger car just the same as they always do (which is not what you wanted to begin with), some will refuse to deal with you altogether, some will make excuses or BS their way out of their job (including an abnormally high price to get you to leave) and the remainder will do the job poorly after genuinely attempting to please you. I would say that only a race performance experienced shop can do what we want done properly.

I have gotten tired of dealing with this when I need work done, and on top of that the work is rarely done right. I tried for years to get my lowered denali aligned, but the steering wheel was always offset to one side or another no matter who did it.

The last alignment I paid to have done was on my old rx8 with full suspension and new 19" staggered wheels and tires ($$$$). Shop owner took the job on gladly, the old guy in the back doing the job did nothing but bitch and whine about it (including within earshot of me). Guy was raising hell because the camber was going to be out of spec. I told him that was fine, I was mainly worried about toe being off, so that the tires didn't get chewed up immediately. He claimed he took care of it.

Ever since he did the work, the car drove funny in the rain, almost like it was losing traction driving on the highway and wiggling around. After 3k miles my rear tires were so badly worn that cords were almost showing through on the inside edge.

I got mad and did research on DIY alignment. I bought and made some tools and other materials to do this by hand. I did some practicing on other vehicles to get the feel for finding repeatable measurements and making good adjustments with the car on the ground. When I checked the shop alignment on the rx8 I found 13/16" of toe on the rear axle. It is supposed to have 1/8 inch.

Ever since I have been doing my own work, mysteriously my vehicles all drive straight, don't chew up the inside edges of tires, and sit/look exactly the way I want. The tools I bought and made have paid for themselves already with time and tire wear saved, and I am overall happier doing my own work even though it is more difficult than just driving somewhere and letting them do it for you. I also don't have to worry about some random mechanic having his hands in my pride and joy and messing up my work.

 

people rely on bought tools too much, and their (lacking) senses.

 

1. every alignment rack needs to be calibrated when its assembled, and 99% of them are, but for most racks that was like 200years ago, so some are just wrong.

2. every tech is taught in school to align cars with a little toe in, and that any camber is evil. so they get all "you're going to wear your tires out really fast" when you want a non stock aliment.

3. we align the race cars without a rack, and once you get a little practice, it works really well.

4. i had my Rx8 aligned at the dealership, the tech that did it has been racing for decades, he was even pulling down on the drivers side suspension to see what the alignment did with and without driver. it needed an alignment because someone had replaced the right rear suspension, but didn't align it at all! so 3 wheels were right, the other was pointing at timbuktu.

5. for the O.P. they should have called you before they got the grinder out. you should have gotten the "we can't get the toe in spec, we need more $$ to pointlessly ruin your car for you" they were taught this in school too

 

I used to do alignment at shops when I had stock suspension on my rx8, but after hipermax and now Olins, like others have said, none of the shops can get my alignment quite right even when I set it back to stock height. Well actually there is one tire shop who knows what they are doing, the guy knows his **** and said it might be better for me to learn how to do alignment myself the old school style, it's far more accurate than even the latest hunter machine can do. Those machines are really designed to work fast on stock cars. He was like dude u can replace ur engine and **** yoursellf, alignment shouldn't be that hard for u, I was like hmm, yeah.

After that I pull out the string and start learning, after a few days I'm so damn happy with my settings.

Not every one has that kind of patience, but really this shop should pay for everything, i mean I told u to do alignment, if u can't for whatever reasons, that's cool just let me know, I will still pay u cuz u did try, right? But there is no reason for you to cut my ******* car up just so u can try to see if u can get the job done. That's like telling me I need a timing belt on my rotary, it's just utter bs