Start car w/out clutch depressed?
08-08-03, 11:10 AM
#28
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i dont understand how pushing in the clutch would do any harm to the engine? that doesnt make any sense.
the car starts up easlier when u push in the clutch because its not turning the tranny. whereas when u push in the clutch its not grabing it, its just free spining.
i kno this for a fact because even on my bike, u can hear the bike turn over fast than with the clutch out.
when you dont touch the clutch an try to start the engine doesnt it turn the shaft? thats jus common sense rite?
also the reason for putting the switch in so you have to push in the clutch when starting is by law in the us. its because alot of people have been hurt from retards starting their car in gear, and the car running someone over. thats why in some states its illegal to have a car starter in a manual.
the car starts up easlier when u push in the clutch because its not turning the tranny. whereas when u push in the clutch its not grabing it, its just free spining.
i kno this for a fact because even on my bike, u can hear the bike turn over fast than with the clutch out.
when you dont touch the clutch an try to start the engine doesnt it turn the shaft? thats jus common sense rite?
also the reason for putting the switch in so you have to push in the clutch when starting is by law in the us. its because alot of people have been hurt from retards starting their car in gear, and the car running someone over. thats why in some states its illegal to have a car starter in a manual.
08-08-03, 12:06 PM
#29
hambre y sueño
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Originally posted by Grey_Ghost_#7
I believe that the later cars made it necesary to push the clutch in to start.
I know that the earlier FC's don't need this... 86-87? I rember reading that somewhere can't member where or what the cutoff date was for this... ?
I believe that the later cars made it necesary to push the clutch in to start.
I know that the earlier FC's don't need this... 86-87? I rember reading that somewhere can't member where or what the cutoff date was for this... ?
Originally posted by wan
My 87 GXL only started up when the clutch was pressed in. Could this be one of those weird random Mazda things like aluminum hoods & rear seats?
My 87 GXL only started up when the clutch was pressed in. Could this be one of those weird random Mazda things like aluminum hoods & rear seats?
Originally posted by SonicRaT
It's 87 and up, and why is having the clutch pressed in while starting so much more worse than when it's running?
It's 87 and up, and why is having the clutch pressed in while starting so much more worse than when it's running?
08-08-03, 12:10 PM
#30
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Originally posted by rx7raca
people have been hurt from retards starting their car in gear, and the car running someone over. thats why in some states its illegal to have a car starter in a manual.
people have been hurt from retards starting their car in gear, and the car running someone over. thats why in some states its illegal to have a car starter in a manual.
08-08-03, 12:12 PM
#31
Originally posted by adamlewis
If you look down at your pedal, there two sensor that have plungers on them. The one farthest away from your firewall will be depressed when you are off the clutch pedal. This one is the clutch switch. The one closest to the firewall is the starter interlock switch. That plunger has to be pushed down in order for your car to start. If you want to bypass it, follow the wiring to a big white plug. Unplug the interlock switch and youll see two female spade connectors in there. Just connect two male spade connectors onto a short strand of 10-12 AWG wire and insert the two end into there.
If you look down at your pedal, there two sensor that have plungers on them. The one farthest away from your firewall will be depressed when you are off the clutch pedal. This one is the clutch switch. The one closest to the firewall is the starter interlock switch. That plunger has to be pushed down in order for your car to start. If you want to bypass it, follow the wiring to a big white plug. Unplug the interlock switch and youll see two female spade connectors in there. Just connect two male spade connectors onto a short strand of 10-12 AWG wire and insert the two end into there.
The switch died shortly after I replace the Starter, anyways the car wouldn't start at 5:00 am during a week day. Being late for work, while working underneath the sterring column @ 5 am is not fun
08-08-03, 12:14 PM
#32
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
If you have not disabled your cold start assist you would still have to start the car with the clutch in and in 1st gear to stop the cold start assist. I dont understand what people are complaining about. And yes it is also a safety precaution to have the clutch in while starting the car or the car may become self propelled. Holding the clutch in I remember hearing only wears out the throw out bearing. Is this only for extended periods of time? And if this is true what is considered and extended period of time?
08-08-03, 12:47 PM
#33
Originally posted by KNONFS
And that is correct....
The switch died shortly after I replace the Starter, anyways the car wouldn't start at 5:00 am during a week day. Being late for work, while working underneath the sterring column @ 5 am is not fun
And that is correct....
The switch died shortly after I replace the Starter, anyways the car wouldn't start at 5:00 am during a week day. Being late for work, while working underneath the sterring column @ 5 am is not fun
I third this statement. My switch was intermittently failing. I bi-passed it to see if that was the problem. Will take you 2 minutes to do.
-billy
08-08-03, 01:56 PM
#34
Originally posted by My88Se
I really don't mind. Sort of an anti theft device if ya think about it.
I really don't mind. Sort of an anti theft device if ya think about it.
Kinda off topic...
Lets say you're at a red light and you leave the tranny in first while holding the clutch down waiting for the green, is this harmfull? I've heard that it isnt and that it is.
08-08-03, 02:16 PM
#35
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
I dont think it wears out the clutch since it is seperated form the transmission but I hear the throwout bearing gets extra wear when it does. Can someone confirm this?
08-08-03, 02:21 PM
#36
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Originally posted by wan
I'm sure the legless car thief community will stay away from our cars
I'm sure the legless car thief community will stay away from our cars
lol
Originally posted by wan
Kinda off topic...
Lets say you're at a red light and you leave the tranny in first while holding the clutch down waiting for the green, is this harmfull? I've heard that it isnt and that it is.
Kinda off topic...
Lets say you're at a red light and you leave the tranny in first while holding the clutch down waiting for the green, is this harmfull? I've heard that it isnt and that it is.
I just leave it in neutral if it's a long light.
08-08-03, 02:23 PM
#37
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I just thought of something. what if your RX-7 has the clutch interlock switch and you want to jump start it....
when you go to pop the clutch, will it do it, or what ??
when you go to pop the clutch, will it do it, or what ??
08-08-03, 06:58 PM
#39
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I'm sure the legless car thief community will stay away from our cars
08-08-03, 08:53 PM
#40
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Sorry guys.. Let me clarify. I didn't mean 2 tons.... it was late at night and typing faster than my eyes were processing.
1) Thrust bearing, is what holds the E-shaft (or crankshaft on a regular engine) from moving front to back in the case. This is called "end play" and is set with shimms or thicker/thinner bearings.
2) Throw out bearing. Obvious...
3) Pressure plate pushing on the end of the crank/E-shaft = wear to throw out bearing and Pressure on the thrust bearing and shimms.
No oil at cold startup = Extreme wear to thrust bearing on some engines (not nessesarly Roatary, but principle still applies).
So when you have a cold throw out bearing (grease doesn't flow when cold) and the thrust bearing is dry, or reletivly (no oil pressure), then you are putting a high load and possible extreme wear to the bearing. I KNOW for a fact it does happen to VW engines, it states in the manual to start the car with it in neutral and No Clutch disengagment.
I don't know exactly how it will effect the Rotary because I haven't torn down any engines (yet), but common sense should prevail.
Its mostly a fail-safe to keep people from hopping over curbs or doing something stupid by starting their car with it in gear (and forgetting the clutch) IMHO. Why not just make a neutral saftey switch Mazda? Problem solved.
-Bobby
1) Thrust bearing, is what holds the E-shaft (or crankshaft on a regular engine) from moving front to back in the case. This is called "end play" and is set with shimms or thicker/thinner bearings.
2) Throw out bearing. Obvious...
3) Pressure plate pushing on the end of the crank/E-shaft = wear to throw out bearing and Pressure on the thrust bearing and shimms.
No oil at cold startup = Extreme wear to thrust bearing on some engines (not nessesarly Roatary, but principle still applies).
So when you have a cold throw out bearing (grease doesn't flow when cold) and the thrust bearing is dry, or reletivly (no oil pressure), then you are putting a high load and possible extreme wear to the bearing. I KNOW for a fact it does happen to VW engines, it states in the manual to start the car with it in neutral and No Clutch disengagment.
I don't know exactly how it will effect the Rotary because I haven't torn down any engines (yet), but common sense should prevail.
Its mostly a fail-safe to keep people from hopping over curbs or doing something stupid by starting their car with it in gear (and forgetting the clutch) IMHO. Why not just make a neutral saftey switch Mazda? Problem solved.
-Bobby
08-08-03, 09:10 PM
#41
Rotary Enthusiast
holding the clutch in while starting does not hurt the engine at all. Why does EVERY new car make you do that? 99% of manual cars on the road made after 1985 need the clutch pushed in to start. It's done so you son't absentmindedly hit the starter in a parking lot while in gear and smash the car in front of you.
The DSM engine's problems are probably not because of the clutch, it's just a shitty engine.
Oh yeah, 1 ton=2000 lbs, and I doubt any clutches put that much stress on the engine. Even with the mechanical advantage built into the pedal you wouldn't be able to put 2000 lbs of force on the clutch.
The DSM engine's problems are probably not because of the clutch, it's just a shitty engine.
Oh yeah, 1 ton=2000 lbs, and I doubt any clutches put that much stress on the engine. Even with the mechanical advantage built into the pedal you wouldn't be able to put 2000 lbs of force on the clutch.
Last edited by rotary>piston; 08-08-03 at 09:13 PM.
08-08-03, 11:36 PM
#42
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I've torn apart a 150k mile N/A engine with the starter interlock, and that thrust bearing looked just as good as the brand new one I had beside it. It's a good theory, but it just doesn't happen.
08-09-03, 02:04 PM
#43
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Originally posted by robvas
Many dealers claim 'crankwalk' on the late model DSM's is because of holding the clutch down too much, or having too heavy of a clutch in the car.
Many dealers claim 'crankwalk' on the late model DSM's is because of holding the clutch down too much, or having too heavy of a clutch in the car.
Crankwalk on a FEW 2G DSM engines is from a bad design in the block. Their was a poorly machined oil galley that would cause the crank to slowly walk itself down the crank case.
08-09-03, 06:20 PM
#44
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Originally posted by BobbyRX
Its considered instant death on some engines, when you have the clutch pressed in when starting. Some pressure plates are up to the 2100LB range, so its like putting 2 tons on the end of you E-shaft and thrust bearings.
Its considered instant death on some engines, when you have the clutch pressed in when starting. Some pressure plates are up to the 2100LB range, so its like putting 2 tons on the end of you E-shaft and thrust bearings.
Henrik
08-09-03, 06:42 PM
#45
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they've all got cluthc switches, it's just that they break.
and i tyepd this while i was making out with my girlfirned hah
edit: Ahem. Heh. They're fond of breaking, my car's switch is broken, and there's no point in fixing it imhmfo.
and i tyepd this while i was making out with my girlfirned hah
edit: Ahem. Heh. They're fond of breaking, my car's switch is broken, and there's no point in fixing it imhmfo.
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