toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Wow, thanks for that link to Project Binky... that was fantastic to watch!

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Yes, it is.
Of all the fantastic fabrication in the project so far, easily my favorite is the doors...that was some impressive engineering.

Our motor has arrived in Denver and we await news of final delivery.
I may have to run over to S.'s house to accept delivery at any time.
Ooooh...like Christmas in October.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Scheduled for delivery on Friday between noon and 4.

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

plenty of time to yank the shiny bits from the old one.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The "old one" will stay intact till the very last minute, we have a few days of prep before the new is ready to go in.
Besides, I've spent a lot of time picking out the best available hardware and every time we take **** apart, bits go missing.
I hate that.

Sigfrid has found a engine hoist at work and is bringing it home tonight.
We can keep it indefinitely, so there's no time pressure.
I like that.

I really hope this all works out, I'm not sure what will happen if the new engine runs like the last one.

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

I hope it all works out. You guys have really been giving it hell with limited resources. My restoration was sheer luck and the ability to haggle like a jew. (Sorry mods). Your attention to detail is certainly one of the "last of the mowheecans" (I know it is spelled wrong).

Elon Musk recently announced he is going to unveil the "D" soon, so the stars are aligning.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

How did you find out?

The "D" stands for "Driveable" and Elon will be over today to install our new engine.
Gonna be a media circus.
Panties may be dropped.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The engine is here.

We may have a winner, it looks fantastic.
The story, as I'm getting it, is...
This guy in Texas has three Z's, all with swapped drivetrains and this engine was pulled from his last acquisition, which he bought for the shell. It had been freshly rebuilt but he never actually ran it.
All indications are that this is absolutely true, the clutch is brand new and the exterior is all fresh paint and spotlessly clean. The intake/exhaust ports are immaculate. Spark plugs are new.
If we could live with the stock Datsun blue engine block, I'd drop it in as is and have no qualms.
We can't of course, it has to be black and that will happen today.

Also today we plan on respraying the hood but that's probably going to be it for now.
Sigfrid really wants to concentrate on getting her running before he goes, so paint will just have to wait. Hopefully, sometime before June I/we will find a way to get that done.

We'll get some pics today as we begin to tart up the new engine.
Next week I'll spend a few days stripping the current engine/bay and swapping over parts...we hope to do the exchange next weekend.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Well, we did stuffs yesterday and I have the pics to prove it.
Progress was made.

Although we aren't doing the full body respray I want, the hood had to be done just so the body was all one color. The process went perfectly (if you recall, our last big paint day was a disaster...) and the hood is black again:


This was our big "all day" job as both sides had to be done, so drying time was an issue, but it worked out fine.

The other big job was painting the engine.
It was already so clean and so well prepped that painting was pretty straightforward:




The head and front cover looked so nice bare silver that we decided to leave it, unlike our other engine which is all black. Might help dispel the Vader-esque darkness in the bay.

Since the exhaust was coming out anyway, we went ahead and painted the muffler black and fit the PepBoys tip I'd found. Since the tip and the muffler were exactly the same size, it required a bit of finessing to mate them but it worked out:


I don't think any of this exhaust is Cali legal but it'll look good for a while at least.

Other, less notable projects include remounting the fuel pump (now MUCH quieter) and digging out/cleaning/painting the intake manifold heat shield. It's an ugly piece but necessary, we'll see how it looks.
Fedex showed up late in the day with our parts, all we need now is the throwout bearing.

I have a few more things to take care of this week (drop/clean/paint oil pan and inspect bottom of engine, refurb the thermostat housing, etc) and we should be ready to r&r the drivetrain next Saturday.
We are hopeful.

BrettLinton7

iTrader: (33)

That new engine looks great, I wish you guys the best with the install and initial start up!

clokker

iTrader: (2)

It does, doesn't it...and thank you.

Too bad I'm having increasing concerns about it.

Something is very weird about this engine and I can't reconcile its outward appearance with what I'm seeing elsewhere.

Before I go full paranoid I need to pull the block water drain and the oil pan, see if they look the same as the thermostat housing and under the valve cover. Then there's the timing...

See, here's the thing:
The exterior really was/is in outstanding condition- very clean and nicely painted. You can tell by the joint between the head and the block that the block was painted with the head removed, which would be expected during a full rebuild. There's no evidence of masking at all, everything seems to have been cleaned/painted separately...again, as you'd expect.

But, under the valve cover things are much different, it's very oil stained (burnt oil) and doesn't look cleaned at all. How do the intake/exhaust ports look so clean (they are immaculate) while the rest of the head is so dirty? I can't imagine the process that does this.

All of the water fittings/visible passages are full of rust and debris. I had to use a punch and hammer to knock the thermostat out of the housing, it was that gunked in. It looks like this thing sat full of water for a long time and I'm concerned about the water passages in the block. That's why I want the block drain out, see what the back of the system looks like.

Then there's the timing.
After our last experience we're both self consciously unsure of our expertise here, but I'm tired of the nervousness. The manual and the advice of our local guru are both very specific about how to check/install the timing set and we checked the new motor twice (which involves turning it over 16 times).
Both times we met all the conditions (which, for the record, are: mark on crank pulley aligned at the "zero" pointer, distributor spindle slot aligned at "11:25 o'clock", cylinder #1 cam lobes at 10 # 2 o'clock respectively, cylinder #5 intake lobe at 12 o'clock and the mark on the cam pulley at the 2:30 position.
Once every eight rotations of the crank all these conditions are met and when they all are, the shiny link on the cam chain is supposed to align with the cam mark at 2:30.
Ours is one tooth off.
Both times.

I hate that we had the conversation about how we were wrong, why our results didn't jibe with the pictures. I hate that we're considering install as is because we secretly trust the (unknown) builder more than ourselves.

I hope the oil pan reveals some more definitive info.
I know that Sigfrid desperately hopes this engine will solve our problems without further effort but I'm increasingly skeptical.

Not that I think we got intentionally screwed- or even "screwed" at all- but I'm not convinced we can just plop this beast in place and drive away.

I'll know more in a while.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

been there done that! for the 2007 25, we bought a short block from the dealer, and had it bored .020" over, and it ran great.

for 2008, we had it refreshed, it supposedly got new rings, bearings and the head checked/rebuilt. this engine fired up, and never sounded right, it was clunky and loud, but the builder said it was fine, and we wanted to think it was fine so we ignored our instinct.

so a rocker arm fell off in practice, and we adjusted the valves, which were all over the place, but it was still noisy. it started off using quite a bit of oil, and then part way through the race it blew the head gasket, and we limped in to the finish.

several months later we tore it down and found that our 0.020" over pistons weren't in the engine, so it was noisy because the piston to wall clearance was 0.020"!

we also found that the 3 degrees the builder added to the timing when we were tuning it, didn't add hp, but it did cause it to detonate enough to blow the headgasket, and damage the head, block and piston!

the next engine, built by someone else came with a very nice build sheet that listed the measured clearance, the factory spec, the machining operation and the end spec, and its been quite reliable.

the net net is that if something doesn't feel right, you should take it apart and start checking stuff, especially with the engine out of the car!

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

You can't just use a spark plug hole piston stop on the crank to find TDC and then got after the cam alignment?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I agree but Sigfrid does not.

I spent a few hours working on the engine yesterday.
Removed the block drain plug (which I doubt has ever been done) and found the expected rusty soup mix that plain water would leave. No big debris chunks or anything, so I think a power flush will do the job.

Moved to the oil pan and it was nice to see all original hardware and flange stiffeners in place, an encouraging sign.
The oil pickup tube and screen are immaculate, they may even be new.
The inside of the pan was clean...except for two chewed up wads of steel, about pea size.
They were laying in the shallow front of the pan, below the timing chain cavity.

This discovery- along with my belief that the timing is wrong- convinced me that the front cover needs to come off...convinced me but not Sigfrid.

I am not surprised, I've been in this situation before.
I feel his pain (really!) and understand the desperation but the reality is that the car doesn't care that he's spent a ton of money (but not enough, apparently) and is leaving for another state in a few weeks.
It needs what it needs, it wants what it wants...there is no debate or discussion.
Kind of like a cat, actually.

I'd really like to make S.'s last days on the project as pleasant and productive as possible but he's been unable to articulate exactly what he hopes to achieve in the little remaining time left.
I know he really wants to exchange the engines this weekend (he "borrowed" the hoist from work and may be under pressure to return it) and we can still make that happen.
Assuming the timing chain isn't bad.

I can make the water pump and timing cover gaskets, so we wouldn't have to wait for those and I'm only about fifteen minutes away from having the front cover off...too close not to looky see.
Even if I leave the timing as is (purely out of deference to Sigfrid's paranoia), I'd really like to discover where the metal scrap came from.

Another day, another mystery to unravel.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Indeed, mysteries abound.

IF- and that's a highly qualified "if"- this engine was rebuilt, it was a shadetree job.
Nothing in the engine has been near a hot tank or has even been crudely cleaned.
At some point- perhaps the reason for the "rebuild"?- this thing burned oil like crazy, the whole interior is covered in residue and stains.

The reason the intake/exhaust ports look so clean is because they painted them.
I pushed the hoist out of the garage (surprisingly easy!) so I could flush the cooling passages and in good sunlight you can see the overspray on the valve springs...the head was painted complete and they didn't even put the valve cover on first, just sprayed away.

The cooling system seems to have cleaned up nicely, probably have to flush again after she's running but I think we'll be OK.

The front of the engine came apart without drama and the source of the metal chunks was found...the "oil slinger" (basically, a large dished washer) is all chewed up. No idea how that happens, there were no marks on the inside of the front cover (although there were four more pieces stuck in various nooks) and it normally doesn't touch anything.
Everything else looks fine, the chain/sprockets may even be new.

The oil pan is almost mint, not a significant dent or scratch either inside or out.
The only damage to the paint was obviously caused by the wooden shipping cradle.
Mint, except for the flange which was rusty as hell underneath what could very well be the original pan gasket.
That thing was petrified, they had to have reused it.
If the pan was ever removed.

All clean, wire brushed and painted now.

All the gaskets will be here Friday, so I have two days to get stuff prepped for install.

Just to be clear, I haven't seen anything yet that belies the leakdown/compression #s the seller claimed. The seller has been communicative and not defensive at all, he's as surprised as we are (because the exterior truly was well presented) and I don't think there was any intention to deceive.

I (we) hope it will run fine and it will look even better than before, so there's that.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Today I have to clean/paint the front cover and waterpump and prep the thermostat housing.
Then I have to start stripping the old engine so I can retrieve the oil slinger that was destroyed in the new engine. That kinda buggers the whole sequence I'd planned but you'll have that.
I have one more day of warmth and sunshine before a cold rainy front moves through, so all paint must be done by tonight.

Sigfrid informs me that he has a business acquaintance coming this weekend and he will be only sporadically available.
I'm capable of swapping the engines alone but it's going to seriously screw with my planned timeline. Once the old engine is out, I need a few hours in the empty bay before the new goes in.
There are some brackets that need to be removed, some damaged paint to repair and one last broken screw to remove (little ****** has been hiding all this time...).

If I'm lucky- and properly prepared- I think I can remove the old, clean up the bay and get the new in place on Saturday, but I doubt it'll be dressed and ready to start.
Oh well.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Stuff got cleaned and painted:


Front cover, oil pump, water pump and pulley, main pulley and in the far background, the alternator mount. All the silver is VHT "cast aluminum" caliper paint, which I really like.
I resprayed the head also:


I hadn't planned on this but the silver they used had a green tint when compared to the silver I'd just put on everything else, so...

The too shiney but otherwise nice oil pan:


I should be in good shape by the time gaskets arrive Friday.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

I know **** all about these engines. Having said that, how come the timing procedure seems so complicated? Shouldn't it just be a matter of setting the crankshaft to TDC on cyl 1 and the cam(s) on cyl 1 so that the rockers in the intake and exhaust are 'loose'? And aren't there alignment marks on the gears, head and/or block or timing cover? Once things are aligned the chain will keep everything aligned, so the '16 turns' seems unnecessary.
Also, since the chain shiny link seems off, could it be switched inside to outside? As in the links facing out should be facing in? Or maybe a wrong chain or fixed with wrong # of links. Not sure if im making sense now.
Also, that broken oil slinger. Maybe it was the only casualty that was overlooked and other parts involved were replaced.
You are right to want to know what's been going on with that little bitch.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?
It's a stone age, simple design, the assembly should be straightforward.
I think the confusion arises because the #1 piston is at TDC twice and the timing must be setup when it's on the compression stroke, not the exhaust.

Sigfrid wants to leave it as is and I'll acquiesce because I have too much to do.
If I'm right and it's a tooth off, it can be redone in situ.
The gaskets don't arrive till tomorrow anyway, so I have a day to reconsider.

Today I strip the old engine down, prepare for removal.
That should go easily, it's all freshly assembled and I expect no surprises.

The biggest unknown is what Sigfrid plans to do with the old engine.
Not "plans to do" in the long term, I wonder what we'll do with it as it's removed from the car. He has nothing to put it on and nowhere to store it.
That's a mystery he'll have to figure out himself.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Ultimately, the cam timing is what determines TDC firing vs TDC gas-exchange, since the bottom end doesn't care... unless the distributor is driven off the bottom end?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The distributor (and the oil pump) are driven off the crank.
Hence the potential for misalignment.

She got more nakeder today:

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

ah yes! i can see how that would take 16 turns to do, you must check your work, and there is a lot of stuff to align.

and rotaries are complicated

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I still can't believe you can't get a single cam piston engine statically timed. Jeezus freakin' Christ!

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I agree, we're pathetic.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I mean that with all due respect though.



TDC on comp stroke for number one piston should be easy with the valve cover off. That and the mark on the pulley. There has to be some sort of arrow or mark on the cam wheel. Done deal. Pop the cap on the distributor and make sure the rotor is near or right on the number one cylinder wire. If the firing order around the cap is right, you're good to go.