She Followed Me Home, Honest
10-10-14, 06:44 PM
#1405
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this is true, the Z engine is pretty robust, in the scheme of things. my dad's barber has one with more than 400k on it, and the head has never been off
10-12-14, 08:50 AM
#1406
Sigfrid spud picced during the day but hasn't sent me the results yet, so I'll put 'em up when I see them...
All things considered, it went pretty well.
"Pretty well" means there was little blood and nothing broken but I'll end the suspense and tell you she doesn't start.
Turns over like a champ but no hint of ignition.
So, we are still fucked.
She is one of the prettiest non-running Z's around though, if that counts for anything.
The physical part of the swap went surprisingly well.
Starting @9am, we had the old engine out, spent some time cleaning/retouching the bay and had the new engine bolted down by noon.
Spent the next few hours dressing it up, making minor adjustments to the wiring runs along the way and by 5pm, she was ready to try.
And try and try and try.
Zip, nada, zero.
I have no ideas.
Clearly, there is something majorly wrong but I'm the one (probably) who made the mistake and it's unlikely I'll find it, having already searched for three weeks without success. We need some experienced fresh eyes on this project to give us a new perspective.
The ignition tester shows we're getting spark at all six cylinders.
Timing light shows we are dead on static timing...certainly good enough to run, even if badly.
Then the battery started running low and we were done for the day.
We can run a compression test but I don't think that will say much.
While the bay was empty, I connected the fuel line from the filter to the return line using a clear filter and ran the system. I knew we had good pressure (there's a gauge on the bypass valve) but I wanted to check for sediment/crap in the lines and saw none...so I think our fuel delivery is good.
The only other thing I can think of is to undo the injectors, lift off the fuel rail and confirm the injectors are pulsing and not blocked (the Z injectors have a hose on top that clamps to a barb on the rail, so they can run without blowing out of the rail).
After that, I gots nuttin.
This whole deal has been a giant waste of money and time.
The whole premise was to replace the block with a known good/running unit so we could definitely eliminate that as a factor. The engine received had obviously never run since whatever the "rebuild" was, so we still have that unknown in the mix.
We should have invested in a Megasquirt instead and deleted all the old engine management ****.
Hell, if it was staying in CO, we could slap some 240 SUs on it and she'd run tomorrow, with no electronics at all.
Sigfrid spent time on the phone with The Z Store (Motorsports, in California) and they confirmed there is no such thing as an "approved" header for CA and in fact, agreed with j9fd3s that it's easier to swap engines altogether. He said that even freshly rebuilt engines with full working Datsun emissions have trouble passing smog.
So I don't know what S. wants to do now.
He has family commitments today and is probably still fairly pissed, so I'm taking a few days off, let the disappointment subside and then see what happens.
There were a few highlights to the day, it wasn't all crummy.
The engine electrical (faulty as it may be) removed and installed easily and nicely.
The new black painted muffler with its snazzy PepBoys tip looks totally tubular, man.
So, there's that.
All things considered, it went pretty well.
"Pretty well" means there was little blood and nothing broken but I'll end the suspense and tell you she doesn't start.
Turns over like a champ but no hint of ignition.
So, we are still fucked.
She is one of the prettiest non-running Z's around though, if that counts for anything.
The physical part of the swap went surprisingly well.
Starting @9am, we had the old engine out, spent some time cleaning/retouching the bay and had the new engine bolted down by noon.
Spent the next few hours dressing it up, making minor adjustments to the wiring runs along the way and by 5pm, she was ready to try.
And try and try and try.
Zip, nada, zero.
I have no ideas.
Clearly, there is something majorly wrong but I'm the one (probably) who made the mistake and it's unlikely I'll find it, having already searched for three weeks without success. We need some experienced fresh eyes on this project to give us a new perspective.
The ignition tester shows we're getting spark at all six cylinders.
Timing light shows we are dead on static timing...certainly good enough to run, even if badly.
Then the battery started running low and we were done for the day.
We can run a compression test but I don't think that will say much.
While the bay was empty, I connected the fuel line from the filter to the return line using a clear filter and ran the system. I knew we had good pressure (there's a gauge on the bypass valve) but I wanted to check for sediment/crap in the lines and saw none...so I think our fuel delivery is good.
The only other thing I can think of is to undo the injectors, lift off the fuel rail and confirm the injectors are pulsing and not blocked (the Z injectors have a hose on top that clamps to a barb on the rail, so they can run without blowing out of the rail).
After that, I gots nuttin.
This whole deal has been a giant waste of money and time.
The whole premise was to replace the block with a known good/running unit so we could definitely eliminate that as a factor. The engine received had obviously never run since whatever the "rebuild" was, so we still have that unknown in the mix.
We should have invested in a Megasquirt instead and deleted all the old engine management ****.
Hell, if it was staying in CO, we could slap some 240 SUs on it and she'd run tomorrow, with no electronics at all.
Sigfrid spent time on the phone with The Z Store (Motorsports, in California) and they confirmed there is no such thing as an "approved" header for CA and in fact, agreed with j9fd3s that it's easier to swap engines altogether. He said that even freshly rebuilt engines with full working Datsun emissions have trouble passing smog.
So I don't know what S. wants to do now.
He has family commitments today and is probably still fairly pissed, so I'm taking a few days off, let the disappointment subside and then see what happens.
There were a few highlights to the day, it wasn't all crummy.
The engine electrical (faulty as it may be) removed and installed easily and nicely.
The new black painted muffler with its snazzy PepBoys tip looks totally tubular, man.
So, there's that.
10-12-14, 09:58 AM
#1408
I would consider that an optimal outcome, Sigfrid, probably not so much.
Pics arrived.
Original engine, stripped and ready for removal:
Empty bay, prior to cleanup:
Mid-process:
Bolted in:
Not sure why there are no "finished" pics, I'll see if I can't get some.
Pics arrived.
Original engine, stripped and ready for removal:
Empty bay, prior to cleanup:
Mid-process:
Bolted in:
Not sure why there are no "finished" pics, I'll see if I can't get some.
10-12-14, 01:15 PM
#1410
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Zip, nada, zero.
I have no ideas.
Clearly, there is something majorly wrong but I'm the one (probably) who made the mistake and it's unlikely I'll find it, having already searched for three weeks without success. We need some experienced fresh eyes on this project to give us a new perspective..
I have no ideas.
Clearly, there is something majorly wrong but I'm the one (probably) who made the mistake and it's unlikely I'll find it, having already searched for three weeks without success. We need some experienced fresh eyes on this project to give us a new perspective..
anyways, you can confirm the lack of fuel injection by spraying something flammable into the intake, if you have compression, and spark, it should run on brake cleaner
10-12-14, 03:50 PM
#1411
Red Pill Dealer
iTrader: (10)
Yep. If you have spark try the starter fluid.
10-12-14, 04:42 PM
#1412
Senior Member
Starter fluid would work to see if it will run, brake clean works too in a pinch. To test your injectors are getting signal, do you have any diodes or lights that you could put in place of the injectors temporarily? They should pulse. This would confirm they are getting signal to fire when they should.
10-13-14, 09:44 AM
#1413
Thanks folks, you've given me some ideas.
Specifically, Craze8's LED idea, which lead me to remember that we have a whole spare intake (with injectors) to play with.
I can pull one of the spare injectors and tee it into the fuel line, then connect it to the "real" injector connector and see what happens. That would confirm (hopefully!) that the injectors are pulsing, although it does not tell me our installed injectors are working (they're all new), at least the ECU and harness would be validated.
I am also suspicious (and have been for a while) about the coil/ignitor setup.
A weak ignition would account for the way it was running before and maybe even the reason it's not running now.
Who knows but at least we've got some ideas to try now, so again, thanks.
Specifically, Craze8's LED idea, which lead me to remember that we have a whole spare intake (with injectors) to play with.
I can pull one of the spare injectors and tee it into the fuel line, then connect it to the "real" injector connector and see what happens. That would confirm (hopefully!) that the injectors are pulsing, although it does not tell me our installed injectors are working (they're all new), at least the ECU and harness would be validated.
I am also suspicious (and have been for a while) about the coil/ignitor setup.
A weak ignition would account for the way it was running before and maybe even the reason it's not running now.
Who knows but at least we've got some ideas to try now, so again, thanks.
10-13-14, 10:09 AM
#1414
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in school we learned an engine needs 3 things to run, compression, fuel, and spark, and air, and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope...
10-13-14, 08:41 PM
#1417
Red Pill Dealer
iTrader: (10)
Have you static timed the damn thing yet? I mean good, sure, and certain. It's a piston engine for Christ's sake.
10-14-14, 09:58 AM
#1419
So you confirmed there's fuel right up to the injectors? And supply and return hoses not switched?
And I read you talking about it, but a lil' confused. Can't you undo the fuel rail and hold the injectors to it (zip tie, string, wire, etc.), plugged in and crank it over? (Have them spray into a container, safely, etc.) edit: That will confirm the injectors have fuel and pulse and are supplying the engine, which I doubt is happening.
edit: disable ignition and any sources of spark i.e. work safely. Fire extinguisher nearby.
Go try the starting fluid idea ASAP. Easy and fast to try first.
And I read you talking about it, but a lil' confused. Can't you undo the fuel rail and hold the injectors to it (zip tie, string, wire, etc.), plugged in and crank it over? (Have them spray into a container, safely, etc.) edit: That will confirm the injectors have fuel and pulse and are supplying the engine, which I doubt is happening.
edit: disable ignition and any sources of spark i.e. work safely. Fire extinguisher nearby.
Go try the starting fluid idea ASAP. Easy and fast to try first.
10-14-14, 10:05 AM
#1420
And I read you talking about it, but a lil' confused. Can't you undo the fuel rail and hold the injectors to it (zip tie, string, wire, etc.), plugged in and crank it over? (Have them spray into a container, safely, etc.) edit: That will confirm the injectors have fuel and pulse and are supplying the engine, which I doubt is happening.
10-14-14, 07:04 PM
#1422
Well, we have fuel.
I pulled the rail/injectors and visibly confirmed spray from all six injectors.
Seemed consistent and sufficient to my untrained eye.
With the pump on there was no dripping or leakage...the injectors are tight also.
I'm still thinking coil/ignition module.
I pulled the rail/injectors and visibly confirmed spray from all six injectors.
Seemed consistent and sufficient to my untrained eye.
With the pump on there was no dripping or leakage...the injectors are tight also.
I'm still thinking coil/ignition module.
10-14-14, 08:21 PM
#1424
Red Pill Dealer
iTrader: (10)
Aaaaaaaah.... ****!
This should be easy! Ohm the coil. I don't know about old Datsun ignition modules or how the ignition works but I wonder if it really has one. Does it have a separate module (ignitor)? Are you talking inductor pick-up?
j9fd3s said it with air, fuel, and spark. I would choose timing next.
This should be easy! Ohm the coil. I don't know about old Datsun ignition modules or how the ignition works but I wonder if it really has one. Does it have a separate module (ignitor)? Are you talking inductor pick-up?
j9fd3s said it with air, fuel, and spark. I would choose timing next.
10-14-14, 08:59 PM
#1425
Is it possible to put the distributor 180 degrees off? If so, try it the other way as long as it's easy to do for quick check. Just for ***** and giggles. Btw u guys got a timing light?
And if ur not sure about spark intensity, have someone with more experience check as a second opinion.
And if ur not sure about spark intensity, have someone with more experience check as a second opinion.