misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

those pedals teach you to drive with shoes on..no bare feet..lol!
Btw..If I would have known you needed fast access to a Comp I would have sent you a 9 inch notebook..lol!

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Does your slip yoke have a lot of wear? Maybe pull that tailshaft and check the bushing too. U joints OK?

I've never tried Redline trans fluid but have been sold on Amsoil. I think the cost is about the same though.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Recall that the tailshaft was swapped, so I'm running the same seal, bushing & tailshaft as before...when it didn't leak. There was nothing immediately obvious to trigger suspicion but I'll be more vigilant this time.

I was once sponsored by Redline and carry a reservoir of good will because of it, but also realize that I haven't enough data to make a real recommendation.
The thing about oil sponsorship is that racers change oil so frequently that they could probably use Johnson's Baby Oil and get away with it. On a two stroke GP bike, you might be tweaking the cartridge transmission 5 or 6 times a weekend and each time requires a full oil change. If there was 30 miles on the oil, that'd be a lot.

I should attack the shifter first and see how the trans feels then, worry about the oil later.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

We worked on the Z and I have visual proof!


I know, talk about exciting.
The Z is now completely keyless, what we've done is replace the external lock cylinder with a momentary switch that activates a solenoid and pops the door lock. The stock handle operates as normal, all we've done is automate the unlock function.

We realized after the install that a failure of the wireless battery cutoff solenoid would make it impossible to get into the car...no battery juice, no solenoid popping the lock, no bueno. We 're going to install a hidden external cable release for the rear hatch, something that can be operated manually without power.
Also did a bit of tuning on the carb and she's running better than ever.
Not sure what we do next, I guess we'll see what the weather is like after the holidays and decide how much suffering we're up for. There's not really anything mechanical that needs doing, everything works as expected but doing cosmetic work in the winter is not a great idea.

Maybe something interesting will break down.

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Well you've already replaced the engine and trans this year on sprocket, so theres minimal chances of something breaking down on that

The Z sounds like it is sound. Your probably good for the year

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Given that the year is down to its final six days, I think you're right.

As a daily driver, Sprocket is in a constant state of dissolution- my job is to attempt to stay ahead of the damage.
Currently, I'd say her two biggest issues are plastics (primarily the dash) and electrics (although everything works as of now).

Sigfrid wants me to get rid of Sprocket and buy a RX8, several of which are dirt cheap (@$2500) on local CL. They all appear nice but won't pass emissions here, hence the lowball prices.

He makes some valid points but I'm not at all convinced.
I want as analogue a car as possible and the RX8 (as with any newer series car) is firmly and irrevocably electronically controlled and there's no simplifying the systems.

In a perfect world, after I get Sprocket through emissions this March, I'd strip the keg bare, install a RB manifold and a Weber and remove the final vestiges of computer control altogether.

The Z only reinforces this desire.
Yesterday, we started by brushing a foot of snow off the car (which has not started or moved in two weeks) and she fired right up (seriously, this car has the best starter ever..she starts instantaneously), the cold start worked perfectly and she idled at 800rpm after just a few moments.
I mean it was a perfect cold start scenario, I don't see how a FI/ECU system could have done any better.
After the first test drive, S.'s only real complaint is that the Z simply doesn't "feel very fast".

I can see his point, although I disagree.
The problem is that his daily- the RX8- revs like a banshee and seems like it's much faster than it actually is. The Z engine is much more deliberate (I mean come on...it's a two valve straight six with an over/under head, so of course it doesn't rev much) but in terms of actual speed, I'd say it's not that much slower but the perception makes it seem so.
Besides, I think it's silly to apply race car metrics to a street rat.

How fast must a car be to operate successfully in an urban environment?
When your average top speed will be below 50mph and you're surrounded by drones in SUVs, how much speed and handling do you need?

The Z is surprisingly comfortable (significantly quieter and tighter feeling than my FC), fast enough to pass anybody on the highway (we clocked over 90mph on I-70 and she still had more oomph) and an engaging car to drive.
Why bemoan a lack of performance that can only be exploited on a track...when you NEVER go to a track?

It may not be as internet sexy, but I believe in building what you need, not what you want.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Put a fifty shot on it, maybe even a 75 if you think it won't mind.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Any engine work has been put on hold for as long as she runs well/OK because our next step in that area will probably be fairly dramatic/expensive and we have more pressing issues to address.
For instance, Sigfrid absolutely hates the Prelude seats and I'll bet making him happier ergonomically would change his overall opinion of the car.

Neither of us are really happy with the doorpanels although the lessons learned were valuable and should get us closer on the second attempt.
We haven't even begun to formulate a plan for the rear strut tower trim, nor do we have, or even contemplated what the footwell kickpanel trim might look like.

These are all the sort of minor projects that can be started/stopped depending on the vagaries of cash flow and weather without disabling the car or extensively disassembling it.

Here's the problem with engine work:
-We can't decide on the most basic question, which is "Do we keep the stock block or swap engines altogether?". I personally see no point in spending much more cash on the L28 because ultimately you cannot overcome the basic problems of weight (and its placement in the chassis) and the prehistoric head design.
We actually have a (mostly) complete spare engine but the one in the car now has all the desirable major bits (late model block w/improved cooling and the head to match) that would be worth working with. So, we'd have to cobble the spare together, pull the "good" engine out and drop the temp spare back in...and THEN start doing whatever to the good bits.

And don't be fooled, these are not particularly cheap engines to hot rod. Prices from reputedly good builders start at around $5k for a basic job and skyrocket from there.
Because of the nature of the beast, even turboing doesn't get you too far without another major outlay in cash.

We have kinda informally agreed that it would take about $7500 to make a significant improvement to the stock drivetrain.

-We have also informally agreed that a total swap would cost about the same but potentially a bit higher (maybe $10k) and we'd easily meet or exceed any power gains the L28 might achieve AND benefit from lighter weight/better placement as well.

In either case- depending on the final power level, all of the ancillaries will have to be upgraded to suit...like the cooling, diff/axles, brakes, etc.

So, I say we leave her as is and just potter around the few remaining issues or commit to the engine swap and do it all.

Molotovman

iTrader: (49)

I'm with Tony on this. If you think you have reached the peak output of the engine in it's current form why not run premium gas and install a nitrous system to get the extra oomph you desire? It's a cheap bang for your buck and since you both have the inclination towards and engine swap, why not?

If you do swap would you consider a 13BT?

jjwalker

Nitrous? No...

Turbo or live with it.

Freeing up the exhaust on an NA engine helps a lot, especially getting rid of the sleeve baffles (which you have to do during rebuilt, so too late) but freeing up up everything helps quite a bit, the consequence is noise.

This what free flowing exhaust and no baffles in the exhaust ports sound like.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

We've bandied that idea around a few times and in theory at least, I'm a fan.
Even a NA rotary would be a significant weight savings (with approximately the same horsepower as the NA six-banger) that's better placed in the chassis and would rev like Sigfrid seems to prefer.

Our path to more power is a rocky one though as the inherent flaws of the S30 platform rear their heads much earlier in the process than with say, our FCs. The stock Z diff is open, the axles use u-joints instead of CVs, we have rear drum brakes and a Tinkertoy suspension setup...all of which would need to be addressed as soon as more power is applied.
Which is why I'm inclined to accept the Z for what it is, as it is.

Right now the car is generally wonderful...quiet, not creaky, nicely damped and sprightly enough to play in traffic without overstressing any of the supporting systems. She's a nice overall package and a fun car to be in.

Were it my decision, I'd look into swapping a Subaru R180 LSD for our open R200, which can be done without swapping axles or driveshaft and redoing the electrical system. Although I'm happy with the electrical as it is, I can see many ways to improve it now that we've been running for a while and some of my previous decisions don't make as much sense now as they did then, so I'd like a second swing at that ball.

First though, I'd like to completely finish the interior- we're so close, she's looking so good and it's the kind of work that doesn't put the car out of commission for too long.

DeaconBlue

iTrader: (31)

The issue with the S30 is the light weight tin can uni-body. Even with the R200 differential swap along with later model CV axles from a 300ZX and 5-lug hubs, any engine swap is basically limited to 300 ft-lbs of torque before you over load the uni-body structure. Weld in a 10-point cage and you maybe safe to 400 ft-lbs of torque.

IMNSHO - leave your L6 engine as is, possibly install a LSD and just enjoy the car.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Much as I enjoy musing about upgrades, I agree completely.

Even before we started this project, I was concerned that Sigfrid was too unfocused about what he actually wanted to end up with.
And I still don't know although I'm pretty sure what we have now isn't it.

You're absolutely correct about the bodyshell, this thing was designed before computer modeling, so they were just guessing really. The 280z shell weighs about 150 lbs. more than the original 240z but the extra reinforcement and thicker sheetmetal couldn't really correct the crudely formed structure.
Fer crissakes, Nissan built the Z for what 9 years? and still never managed to center the rear wheel in the arch.

I knew from the beginning that when we finished our planned first stage of the project, what we'd have is the world's best MGB GT...and that was fine with me.
Sigfrid thought we'd have an RX8 with a cooler body.

One of us was bound to be disappointed.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

actually while the Rx8 does have the ECU tied into everything, its basically built like a lego. just about every normally serviced item can be done in under 18 minutes. the interior plastics are robust. every part of the car, except the engine is basically free compared to the FC. the reliability problems are way overstated, most Rx8 owners are too lazy to walk outside and open the hood, let alone actually fix anything or keep up with the normal maintenance schedule

the bad part is that for the most part the car is right, there isn't much to improve or simplify. the gaffs that are there (it was designed under Ford control at the last minute), are things like the drain around the trunk lid, put a hose on the corner of the back window and trunk and watch where Mazda intended the water to drain...

emissions are easy too, the cat is the only emissions part on the car, and since you don't live in CA, you get to buy the $299 one instead of the $1100 OE one.

the only real hard part with the Rx8 is that there is a warning light for everything, and it can be time consuming to get them all off.

since EFI needs the engine to spin 360 degrees (at least), to figure out where the engine is in its rotation, it cannot start as fast as a distributor/carb, which is already in the right place mechanically.

as far as the "not feeling fast" part, i think that is one of those things that if graphed out would look weird.

for instance my turbo FC hits 7psi by 2400rpm, which is about like a stock T2, but then it goes on to hit 13psi by 3200rpm, and this 2400-3200rpm rush is really fun, it FEELS really fast. over about 4000 though it just falls flat on its face, and this is the stock turbo, so it might make 200hp. its not actually fast, just feels like it.

or feeling fast is usually a non linear spot on the powerband.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

A clever way of thinking about it.

I was struck- and heavily influenced- by a description Henry Manney III once wrote about being driven to Heathrow airport in a Bentley by Jackie Stewart.
Late and in heavy traffic, they made it in record time but later Manney said he couldn't recall feeling the car accelerate or brake, such was the smoothness of the driver/car.

This formed my definition of a good street car...a machine that did what you asked without complaint or drama. Because of the ever changing environment and wide range of requirements, this is a much harder goal to attain than a race car, which has the luxury of a single focus application.

TL/DR...the better the car, the less it clamors for your attention.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yes pretty much. my dad bought a 2003 Jaguar, and its beautiful but dull. that is until i took it to Monterey, the thing is comfortable, quiet, its an hour and a half drive, and it felt like 20 minutes. since this is the internet, the Jag has the same power as an equivalent BMW, 280hp, and its more than adequate, although its pretty unobtrusive. it makes the BMW 5 series seems crude, and impolite.

or if you like, the FC feels faster than the jag, but the jag does 0-60 in 6.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15 flat, so head to head it would be about even.

DeaconBlue

iTrader: (31)

Sounds like you are describing my '04 Lincoln LS V8 Sport (which under the sheet metal is a Jaguar S-type). It is the near perfect "executive sedan".

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Enthusiasts (of all stripes) have been conditioned to overemphasize extremes, the more easily grasped/bragged about, the better.
Two examples would be power and suspension.

Horsepower figures are ethereal and useless without far more context than we are usually given.
How impressive is "My Mustang has 500 hp" if it has a powerband like a RD350 and actually makes 40hp till it hits the powerband at 8500rpm and dies at 9000?

Race suspension feels brutal to the normal human (and we'll be ignoring ultra-exotic, megadollar suspensions here) because they aren't operating in the realm the parts were designed for. No racer ever asked for increased compliance, response, consistency, etc. and then added "And oh yeah, make it spinecrushingly stiff and noisy, too!". A bad setup for a slower section may be well traded against better results in places where time can be made. Another (rarely mentioned and possibly the most important) advantage that racers have is THEY ARE ON DAMN RACETRACKS. Not only are distracted Buick drivers not an issue but they are driving the exact same stretch of road over and over and over again. They know exactly where apexes are, where pothole/frost heaves are, what's over that blind crest or around that tight left.
Street people are rarely going fast enough, nor are they usually savvy enough at setup to exploit the (dubious) high speed performance enhancements they suffer for the other 99% of the time.

It's not that I'm against performance, I just don't need it to be all shouty.
You shouldn't have to parse your inputs or be reminded of how good the brakes are...that's all just normal and shouldn't need thought.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

+1 race cars are a little funny. our measurement for better is just the stopwatch, faster lap time = better, and thats it. there are a bunch of pieces to this, so this is an oversimplification.

street cars on the other hand defy measurement, "it doesn't feel fast"

this makes a good street car harder to build, fun can be intangible.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

There is no replacement for displacement...

Unless it might be displacement AND forced induction. I have learned this personally and viscerally this year-I bought an AMG SL55.


5.5l displacement and 11psi of boost. 493 Hp is a lot of Hp, even if it peaks at 6300 rpm. So what about 'area under the curve? How 'bout 517 ftlb of torque...from 2650 to 4300 rpm. Mmmm good.

It's roughly an equivalent Hp to weight ratio to 350 hp on a stock TII, except for that torque; that wonderful torque...

Handling? The ride is as buttery as any I've felt, yet it has little to no roll in corners, adjustable damping and height due to the electrical/hydraulic suspension, Active Body Control. I can also raise the body up 2 inches for clearance to enter the driveway.

It has *huge* 14.2" front brakes with 8 piston calipers. Fat rubber, yet full throttle can engage the traction control at highway speeds.

It's a time machine. You can hustle this car around town very fast with no drama. And the cops don't look your way either. I did 15-20 miles back in July hugging the speed limiter at 156mph on a rural interstate. **** happens real fast at 156. Tunnel vision. When passing another car going 70, I'm going 86 mph faster. With the top down.

Expensive? Once upon a time, but not anymore. I've never bought an FC with this low mileage (75k) yet FC's have sold for more $ on this board.




In driveway mode, +2"

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Pretty flash ride for a cowboy, Jack.
Is the trunk big enough for your stud bull?

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Probably

clokker

iTrader: (2)

So, a random miracle occurred today.

After months of searching CL for seats, all of a sudden this week several sets show up, the most enticing being black cloth Miata seats (with headrest speakers, no less) for $60. That is an absurdly low, and hence, suspicious, price for what are reputedly excellent condition parts but it was too alluring to ignore, so we trundled north on I-25 to take a look see.


Both sides were missing the seatbelt receiver and there was a hint of wear on the drivers bolster but for a used part I'd give them a strong 7 and maybe an 8. After a few minutes of animated Spanish bickering (turns out ole Siggy speaks English, French, Spanish and Italian fluently and can bumble around in German) he brazenly bargained down to $50 (for the pair!) and told me later he thought he could have gone lower but felt sorry for the guy, who obviously didn't realize what he had.

Miata seats not only fit the character of the car but have the most generic and straightforward mounting base you could hope for. All four corners are on the same plane and are evenly spaced.
This apparent simplicity lulled us into a decidely false sense of confidence.

The slider spacing in the Z is 13" and the mounting points on the Miata seatbase are 13 3/8" and as it happens, for a variety of reasons too tedious to explain, it'd have been simpler if the spacing was way too wide rather than just a scosh off.
It took way longer than anticipated ( in the sake of transparency, it took just over four hours) but both seats are fully mounted and functional.

They are a decided improvement- at least in the Z- over the Prelude chairs. With a narrower base, the Miata seat will fully reverse and the extra legroom is welcome.
Seem to sit about an inch lower, also welcome (most immediate effect of being lower is improved cluster visiblity through the wheel).
The contours are different as well and I haven't the seat time yet to say if the comfort is better/worse but Sigfrid is ecstatic, and that's what matters.
Too dark for installed shots (damn you, winter!) maybe next week.

DeaconBlue

iTrader: (31)

Yet an other example that in the enthusiast automotive world, the answer to very question is "Miata"

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Miata parts have certainly been the Legos of our interior build.
Looking at my previous comment about how well the seats "fit our aesthetic", I thought, "No **** Sherlock, they should fit right in with the Miata dash and console".
Then I wondered if in some Bizarro world (hard to tell the difference these days) there was some lackwit eagerly cramming 280Z chunks into his Miata.

Couldn't really picture it, which is kinda weird given how perfectly the Miata>Datsun integration went (IMO, at least) but the reverse just wouldn't work.

Meanwhile, I hear from S. that he has removed the drivers seat to change the seatbase angle by adding some spacers. We both thought the rake might be a bit much but figured we'd get some more time before deciding...I guess overnight was all the time he needed. He promised pics though, so there's that.