skatingsamurai

Howdy everyone,

i can't seem to find any resource links or threads to direct bolt on turbo modifications. i thought garrett makes one, and i know you can get BNR hybrids that are good for like 300-350 ish but i'm not looking for anything crazy, just something thats bigger then the s5 stocker and will fit with emissions and the stock s5 mani. my biggest worry is if my support mods will support ~10 lbs or less on a larger turbo.

my mods include but are not limited to
safc
rtek 1.7 (plan for 2.0)
550/720's
walbro 255
10mm wires
cone intake with 3inch piping
RB full racing turbo back
wide band tuning available
rebuild with 2k miles
stocker IC (plan for a FMIC)
manual boost controller

I'm sure this topic has been covered many times but the thread search function doesn't seem to be doing its job.

thanks in advance!
steve

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you will need bigger injectors for any decent upgraded turbo, you can go with the 1.8and 4 720's or go bigger and deal with hard starting issues or just pony up and go standalone. your setup might work for a stage 1 and possibly 2 BNR but i would go with larger injectors for stage 3 and 4. all stage hybrids will fit with some trimming to the turbo ears or to the lower intake manifold. on one setup i made a 3" pipe from the stock airbox down to the turbo and under the hood looked completely OEM aside from the shiney dull luster of the new turbo.

there isn't any other companies that make hybrid turbos anymore, you may find a turbo shop here and there that can take a stock turbo and modify it with garrett internals to upgrade it, which is what mine is. there was Panspeed in japan who also used to build hybrids but i have heard nothing about them in some time.

skatingsamurai

what does BNR stand for? and, do they have a sight?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

not sure what it stands for, probably his name initials.

i don't believe he has a website but he does sell directly through RX7store.net, i don't see them listed for the FC anymore though so you would have to contact them or him directly. i would personally contact Brian rather than go through a middleman and pay extra though.

iirc his username on the forum is Brian@BNR

edit: sorry, forgot it is with a "Y" so Bryan@BNR is his username and here is a link

https://www.rx7club.com/members/bryan%40bnr-72684/

jm93rx7

iTrader: (7)

http://www.bnrturbos.com/

CyberPitz

I'll just use this thread, what does "wideband tuning" stand for? I tried googling/searching/etc, but nothing that means anything to me came up. Come on guys, help a brotha out.

phoenix7

when you buy a wideband o2 sensor you can log the AFRs and then tune according to the AFRs(as long as you have a fuel controller). Stoichiometry is 14.7:1 AFR and I've seen the rotary turbo lean out as much as 12:1 ( you really don't want much more because if you spike----> BOOM goes the motor) but the avg. AFRs tend to be in the 11's.

The Stage1 from BNR is good for almost 300hp at 14psi (on their site) and if you're looking for a direct bolt-on turbo this is the way to go.

680cc inj. primaries
720cc secondaries
bigger fuel pump
fuel controller
retard timing
TUNE.

I think you might have flooding issues if you use 720's in your primaries but I have yet to find concrete evidence of this. Brian at BNR told me to get (4) 720cc Inj. with a stage 2 but until I can find the info on the flooding issues I won't buy the second pair.

CyberPitz

Say you want to up to a Stage1/2 BNR, would you need to tune the car? If you already have a walbro 255 pump in there....would that be near enough, or are there alot more things to do.

phoenix7

I need to install my injectors(720cc), fuel pump(255lph), re-do fuel lines, then CHECK PD to make sure it's still ok (i wouldn't want an accident like Vipers' car), install my wideband (so I can see the AFRs) and wire in my fuel controller (so I can take those AFRs and tune the injectors accordingly), wire in by boost controller (so I can maintain stable psi) and make sure I don't blow anything up. I'll have to re-check all my FMIC pipes and couplers to make sure nothing is loose/leaking or broken. I'm trying to get this all done BEFORE the turbo gets back from BNR but I know myself and I predict some hardcore procrastination.

I don't know whether I'll need a FPR yet but once everything is installed and I can sese what the car is doing I'll be able to know whther I need one or not.

idsigloo

go with a stage 1 bnr, you'll need to be able to adjust fuel so you need an SAFC or RTek ecu, you'll need larger secondaries injectors, done.

CyberPitz

Sounds easy enough. From what I'm understanding, the SAFC or RTech ECU is basically a computer that lets you control things? So you have to put in a new wiring harness, right?

TII '87

Actually, 12:1 is on the rich side. 16:1 would be lean

remember that this is a ratio. 12:1 means that you got 12 units of air per fuel unit.

So, the lower the ratio is, richer is the air/fuel mixture.

So, the higher the ratio is, leaner is the mixture.

skatingsamurai

thank you tII for correcting. so does this brian person have an email adress? And, when you say 300 hp is that wheel hp or flywheel hp... does that also include a fmic?
anyone run v mounts with bnr turbos?? and how does it work, do i send him my turbo? or does he have turbos that you can buy?

phoenix7

I would have to disagree. 14.7:1 is perfect stoiciometric balance. Tuning to ~12:1 gives you that safety net in case you spike. From what I have read/ seen most people tune their cars in the 11 to 12:1 ratios for that safety net. Yes it's still on the rich side but that is as LEAN as I would go. Any leaner than 12:1 is too dangerous, especially on a turbo car. Hope I was able to clarify my point.

phoenix7

I believe their test car ~295WHP but I don't know whether it had the FMIC during the dyno (the person who provided the car HAS an FMIC NOW).

As far as V-mount? I like it because the piping is more direct but I've never seen on in person.

you remove your turbo, package it PROPERLY (i was told to break a box down and ROLL it around the turbo and then place THAT in another box with the payment TAPED to the inside of the box) and in 2-3 weeks (depending on their schedule) you should receive a nice STOCK looking hybrid turbo.

socalrotor

iTrader: (1)

So what are you disagreeing with?! The quote is 100% correct. MY A/f on a mild moded na spiked to just over 16.3 at the 3800 switch over, then went as rich as 12.1. 14.7 A/F is for max power ratio, that doesnt mean it is safe.

phoenix7

you're both right. I chose the wrong words, but i NEVER said 14.7:1 was safe (i said 11 to 12:1 is safe for TURBO cars in case they spike)

. now to get back on track:


I am 95% sure 95Nracer is the one who provided the demo car for the BNR Stage I (where they say good for 300HP):

http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/...do=full&p=4788

http://home.comcast.net/~2003aliesha/RX7.wmv

He's had the turbo for at least a couple of years and it still runs strong.

skatingsamurai

wowzas then the stage 1 makes significantly more power then the s5 stocker? and theres no point in argueing about afr's becuase as soon as someone says anything, there going to get flames but a senior ranking member of the forum. if i were to go with a stage 3. you think i could do it with 720's/1000's and the rtek 2.0 ?

phoenix7

well no two cars will have the same AFRs even with similar mods (which is why you don't see ppl tuning THEIR cars based on someone else's AFRs). I still stand by my statement about the 11 to 12:1 ratio being safer that anything closer to stoich for a turbo car though. Check out the edit in my post above for dyno sheet of BNR stage 1. I hope it helped put things under a better light though.

oh and I don't know what you mean about the flames from "ranking" members. In order to learn we need to disagree and see what the other person has in mind and that's all I see in this thread.

phoenix7

now here is my dilemma (which MAY happen to you): I was told that (4) 720cc injectors were needed with the stage 1&2 (95Nracer has 4 of them, I plan on using them only for secondaries). I am under the impression that having 7200 inj. as primaries may cause flooding. I really wanted to modify some GSL-SE inj. (680cc) but I don't know if they are enough (don't want to max out their duty cycle JUST to avoid flooding).

680cc MIGHT provide enough fuel and avoid flooding.

720cc IS enough fuel but may cause flooding (and it's harder to decrease flow rates)

I will most likely start with 680cc's (cheaper from Junked FBs) and if it's not enough then I'll get 720cc's for primaries. I really want to get everything done at once and be done with it (which is why I ask for some input from you guys) but I think I may have to use the good old trial and error without blowing anything up.

socalrotor

iTrader: (1)

It seems to me that sticking to what the ECU is tuned and designed for, IE the 720's would be your best bet. just my 2 cents

socalrotor

iTrader: (1)

OR you do your own tuning per a SAFC /stand alone and got 680 primary, 1600cc secondarys. that would give you all the fuel you need.

skatingsamurai

but with a stage one 550s/720s would be ok? and of course the 255 pump. i have people offering me like stage 2 and 3s but i dont think i have the supporting mods. anyone have any stage ones?

Silverfc88

iTrader: (7)

LoL.. I wasn't a demo car for BNR. I just wanted to get the info out there. The first time I dynoed with the Stage 1 with 550+720 the AFR's where in the mid to high 11's. That was with a Rtek 1.5, HKS AFR (Think Apexi AFC) and at 10psi. https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dyno-128/went-dyno-other-day-473544/



I upgraded to the 2.0 and went with some 720's on top and bottom and the AFR's are in the low 11's. I haven't had any starting problems with the setup. I'm happy with it and I love the timing adjustments. Mainly being able to retard timing from up top where it was 33-35 degrees advanced @ 100% load.



This is the most current dyno for the car.https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=68 . I was getting some hesitation up top and when I looked at the logs it was going super rich so I bumped the timing a little and leaned it out. So now it pulls to redline a little better now.



I think you can get away with going with some 550s+720's, but I wouldn't go beyond 10-11psi on a stage one. There is definetly more headroom with the 720x4. If you have a Walbro 255 then going with an aftermarket fpr made things easier for me. For tuning anyways.


For a Stage 3-4 I would go with something like a Rtek 2.0 or standalone with 720's and 1000's. Well thats what I plan on doing, just dropping in some 1000's on top.


I've had the turbo for 4 years now and its still strong.

Silverfc88

iTrader: (7)

Phoenix 7 is right though every car is different so you will have to tune for your car. So if you end up with 550's and 720's with a stage one go to a dyno and do a couple of pulls and see where you stand. Then go from there.



This is a good thread of people who have dynoed and or plan to. https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dyno-128/bnr-turbo-dyno-sheets-please-629521/