TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

So, after reading a few posts (ICEMARK's FAQ post, Clarion, etc), I've made some great headway, in rewiring the vert.

Decodings for the OEM headunit > Industry standard color codings (these correlations are made from ICEMARK's FAQ post, my personal knowledge and verification from a contact of mine at Clarion:

Left are OEM, Right are aftermarket standard:

Core System Wiring:

• LightBlue+Red = 12v HOT > Yellow
• LightBlue+White = +ACC > Red
• LightBlue+Yellow = -power antenna trigger (NEGATIVE CIRCUIT!) > Blue+White (*1 Note: see below)
• Red+Black = Illumination > Orange+White (*2 Note: see below)
• White = Factory Amp on signal > Blue (*1, 3 Note: see below)

Speaker wiring :


FRONT:
LEFT:

• POS = LightGreen+Red > White
• NEG = LightGreen+Black > White+Black

RIGHT:

• POS = LightGreen > LightGreen
• NEG =LightGreen+Yellow > Gray+Black

REAR:
LEFT:

• POS = Brown > Green
• NEG =Brown+White > Green+Black

RIGHT:

• POS = LightBlue > Violet
• NEG =LightBlue+Orange > Purple+Black

NOTES:

1. Some systems DO NOT follow industry standard on this. By STANDARD the 3v AMP trigger is BLUE - SOLID BLUE - not striped. This may vary from headunit to head unit, so check your installation manual (or, most of the time, you can look on the headunit, itself and there's a nifty little schem on the correct wiring.)
2. Some headunits have BOTH a solid Org and an OrgWht wire, tagged for 'Dimmer' and, 'Illumination.' These are effectively the same, but one (solid Org) is a FIXED signal input (on the headunit side) and the other is VARIABLE. You could affix either of these to the Red+Blk wire in the OEM harness and the end result would be the same.
3. I don't know how other models (S4, S5, NA, Tii) have their harnesses, but ICEMARK's FAQ has the factory amp kickon tagged as a WHITE wire, as seen above. I don't have a white wire on my OEM harness and would like some input as to how to run OUT, via the OEM harness, to get signal to the headrest amp...

Here's a pic of the two OEM harnesses, I've got:




I'll post pics of the tethered harness, when I get it done. Weather's ICKY, today, so motivation is lacking)

Hope someone finds this helpful, since I had a bitch of a time correlating one thing, to another!

I take all thanks via pints of Guinness.

Pele

iTrader: (28)

Check this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-gen-archive-72/s5-stereo-install-so-%2Aeverything-works%2A-936433/

It's in the archives.

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

LOL. I have that one bookmarked, but that's the, 'go out and buy something' method. While a ****-ton easier, that isn't both entirely necessary nor the project at hand.

No place in that post is he describing anything on the technical side of the wiring; simply, 'plug-and-play,' is not the most technical advice one can give, in this situation; NTM in THIS POST even asks about the same 'Headrest speakers' but doesn't get any further than saying that he sent a speaker-level to the specified amp, and all's well. That's fine and all, but according to ICEMARK the amp kick-on is a white wire and... As you can see from the above pic, no wire wire in harness (which came out, unmolested, out of the OEM suitcase of a headunit).

Don't get me wrong: It's a great article and that's the reason why I have it bookmarked.

Having the information at hand, for the more DIY-minded people on here, is the relevant key, to this post.

Having things omitted isn't going to help anyone, hence my inq about the ever elusive White wire.

After - quite literally - 10mins of playing the 'clip and crimp' game, I clicked on my main breaker and turned the key to 'On....'

Sim-Sim ala BIM! We has tunes.

Since I only wired the aforementioned FRONT wires, it only played out of my doors, but that's okay...

For now.

I have a 40X2 amp that can carry both low and High-impedance inputs, so I'll wire them into the headrest speakers (a bit of wiring, since only SOME of the convertible's amp's wiring is going to be by-passed.) I may have to omit it, completely and JUST run the other amp, FTM, but I'd rather not...

If I can help it, to keep the consistency of the, 'Use whatcha got' mentality.

ANy idea wbout the WHITE wire in ICEMARK's post?

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Icemark's sticky is not for the S5 Vert. Don't look for the white wire, that doesn't exist for the S5 Vert. You are barking up the wrong tree. Use the factory S5 Wiring diagrams. Not the FSM, the full diagram to answer your questions.

Do you drill your own oil wells and rig your own oil filters when you change your oil? That would be the 'go out and buy something' way of doing things too. I'm just sayin'

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

LOL. D-OH!

Where/ what should I be looking (for)? I mean, I figure since you said you have them, you'd be the person to point a guy in the right direction to GETTING them.

Here's another oddity:

Looking through the FSM, as we speak, I've noticed something REALLY hinky...

It shows 2 front (under-dash), 2 door, and 2 pair of headrest speakers... But I ALSO have the little subby-looking speakers behind the seats, which are NOT shown ANYWHERE in the FSM.

Curiouser and curiouser.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I am going to try to help you. You don't understand the above statement. The reference speaker level and line level is totally unrelated to the amp turn on wire.

Line level is preamp level. Speaker level is post amplifier level. There is much discussion regarding the 1988 (S4) and the later S5 models regarding speaker level/line level for the headrest amps. Post up a question as to whether that will or won't work and you get different answers from different people whom I respect. My intention was to NOT get on one side of that issue, but rather to tell what I had done (speaker level to the S5 amp) and that that strategy has worked.

Again, the amp turn on wire is NOT white in the S5 Vert harness. I found more than one reference to different colors for this wire in my research. Apparently there was more than one version of the wiring harness. Colors may have not been the same, but you can be sure that the placement in the harness plug is the same.

This is one reason that I used the harness adapter plug. The locations would be the same and consistent.

I personally verified each wire in the harness, both with the wiring diagram and with testing. My car harness matches with the S5 wiring diagram, both in pin location and wire color.

Here is a link for the metra adapter. http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...ice_Comparison I would have spent $10 on quality crimp on pins for making my own harness. And that was my intention, which was why I didn't buy my harness online. I discovered that my local Best Buy had it while I was returning one head unit for a different head unit that had a pre-out with a fully configurable subwoofer functions.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Your FSM is the 1989 version, without airbags.

I'm going to find you a link the full S5 wiring diagram, it is 22 megs. It shows both versions. It will help you accomplish your goals.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Here. This will help

http://www.cochran-racing.com/FSM/s5/S5wiring.pdf

Also, in the archive write up is the color code for the Metra adapter. That color code will correspond with the head unit wiring of anything of recent manufacture

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

The FSM I've got - much like all of them, I'm sure - have, like 5 different versions of the freakin' schem... No WONDER I was confoozed. The one I've got is the wrong version for the wrong YEAH!

BWAHAHAHAH!

Woo-Hoo! Thanks, brother.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Your vert has the airbag. This system has the 'subwoofers' behind the seat. That system sends a subwoofer output to those rear speakers AND to the front speakers in the door at all times. When you are listening to the headrest speakers, the rear subs and the door speakers with subwoofer lows are all functioning. Very cool and pretty advanced.

The system works very well unless you push the volume up high. You can't 'boom' with it.


My write up allowed my rear subs to continue to function in this way. It makes a nice fill of midbass between the Bazooka in the trunk and the headrest speakers when I am totally on the headrest speakers.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

And don't miss the part where I used the factory radio brackets and installed the cup holders from a 94 Ford Taurus (130 amp alt donor car). That was pretty DIY too!

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

I saw the thread about the OEM radio bracket; pretty cool that.

My center console is swapped around so my headunit is where the A/C was (it's at the very bottom, ATM, until I rewire the face to the center, armrest, console... Since it's only a pair of ribbons, I can remake it using low-imp IDE ribbon (nearly the same V-flow).

Till then, I'll just rock it, top to bottm: Vents, Radio, CD pocket, Cimate control.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

the factory radio bracket is a nice piece. On a s4 you can mix and match a aftermarket unit for one of the components of the s4, so it basically looks factory. The holes in the bracket line up with aftermarket radios, guess it is some kind of standard.
The headrest speakers on the s4 are useless, but regardless I can never bother with them again

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

I've heard that quite a few times, about the S4s. The S5s seem to not only work better but PERFORM better, as well.

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

So, from looking at this mess on Pg Z-102, in the PDF, I'm nott SUPPOSED to be looking for a standard amp kick-on, as it's ALREADY on, correct?

I should be looking for where the signal leads go into the remaining pins, on the other harness clip.

Heeeeeeelp!

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

Hm... Upon further inspection (and a little lateral thinking, comparing the S4 coupe wiring with mine), I've determined the following (Jack, a little help?):

On S4 coupes the White wire that ICEMARK was talking about is located in the NON-integral harness (NOT the one housing the 12v, ACC switched, illum, etc). In my picture, it's the Right-hand connector.

From looking at the schems of both, the S4 is labeled, like so:

Left to right : I-17, W(I), F1-02, W(F), W(R), FR-05, R-35;

And the S5 convertible w/ SRS is:

Left to right: 1C, J-01, L/R(I), X-19.

This tells me that the White wire in the S4 coupes is a BLue/ Red in my car.

I'm trying to determine if I need to run the amp remote wire, or not, or if I can simply run a line-level over to the appropriate headrest amp line.

I love this ****....

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

Oh - In case there's a question as to HOW I made this correlation, I compared pg. 96 in the S5 wiring diagram PDF with pg. 89 in the S4 one.

Just to the right of BOTH pages (and the radio, proper) is said wire...

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

You need to quit looking at the S4 wiring diagram, this has NOTHING to do with your car, so forgeddaboudit.

You need to look at the S5 vert w/airbag diagram. This is the car you have

You need to quit trying to create some type of clever crossplatform wiring correlation. The plugs are different, the systems work different. The wire colors are different.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

Are you are trying to run the headrest amp when your aftermarket radio comes on?

And are you trying to eliminate the console controls?

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

Mostly the former: Run the amp and keep funtionality, there-in...

Basically have the amping system(s) kick on and function when the radio does and run my rear channel to the headrest speakers. The door speakers work perfectly fine, as I went straight to them, without a hitch... The headrests and 'subs' are next.

I actually have ONE of the two 'smart' harnesses. Only the primary one (vital pins and front speakers) and they work fine... Not the second, though, hence my curiosities.

The reason for the correlation between the two is pretty simple:

You mentioned earlier that the COLORS changed, but not the pins... Ergo, if I look at the S4 diagram, I can see where said wire is, jump BACK over to mine (Yes, the S5 with SRS - 'Type 2' I believe) and look at/ for the same. "Colors may have not been the same, but you can be sure that the placement in the harness plug is the same."

You on AIM, or such? I don't do FB, so that's not an option, for me.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Look, I wired a head unit into my 87 GXL back in Dec, just before I did the Vert. The plugs don't even use the same type pins. There is no benefit to trying to correlate the two harnesses. The white amp turn on in the S4 turns on THREE different amps, that amplify 4 different speakers. I didn't even use a harness on that system, I spaded up the headunit harness wires and plugged them into the factory plugs. Then I removed the 3 amps and rewired the speaker harnesses so the headunit powers the speakers.

The S5 Vert system is so completely different that nothing translates. You are wasting your time and mine as well.


If you are trying to run the headrest amp without the console controls, I'm out, not interested. As far as I am concerned, the only reason to use the factory amp is to keep the console controls. If you are keeping those controls and the existing amp, the method already exists. It is in my write up. Use the simple, proven well-engineered method. If you want to direct wire and save *$10*, then the wiring diagram is clearly labelled on page 96 and page 98 of the S5 wiring diagram. It should not be hard to just stick the appropriate pins into the plugs and wire your head unit. Just follow the diagram. This should connect exactly like using the Metra or Scosche adaptor, just wired directly.

Seriously, you are working way too hard trying to do something that has been done in a very easy straight forward way.

No, I don't do aim im or any chat methods, sorry.

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

LTFOL...

Disregard. I figured it out (Had to step away, smoke a cigarette and NOT think about it, for a few. When I came back, It was staring me, quite clearly, in the face).

No big. 'Preesh...

As far as saving ten bucks, no Bestbuy is open at 0207.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Look, the blue amp turn on wire from your head unit connects to the BR/R wire in the J-01 AUDIO SYSTEM plug, Pin labeled 1J pictured on page 96. This will turn on the headrest amp. It also turns on the subwoofer amp. If everything is connected right, the subs attain the audio from the headrest amp. I bet there is a crossover.


This will only work if the console controls are hooked up properly and if all the other connections are correctly made. If they are not, then you and the S5 wiring diagram will have to work it out. Thats the best I can do for you.

Good Luck, going to sleep now.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

but you did start this thread in the afternoon, the amount of time you spent on this you could have paid yourself like 83 cents a hour and broke even on the $10 harness

TrboSpdAnt

iTrader: (5)

No-no; That's right.

I live a pretty hefty ***-**** from the closest Bb... The Gas would've been one thing (I was driving our Tundra, not the Mustang (suspension work) or the Maxima (fiance was driving)), and really, I'm trying to find a way to do it for people who want to do it but don't want to/ can't go out and buy something additional.


I understand that I was doing it the hard way - no dispute there. Yes, I KNOW I could have just picked up those harness adapters, as I already had one, laying around, but I opted not to and do things the bass-ackwards way.

I appreciate all the input, guys!

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

How many different times and ways must I tell you, there is no difference between doing it with the harness and doing it without the harness. Except you must have a wiring diagram and be able to read it.


Then you can eliminate spending the $ for the harness. And you get to ignore the knowledge and engineering that other people and Audio companies have put into making this unusual install go smooth and easy, ending with a fully functioning system.

But then of course you have to go back and add in the cost of the small pins to plug into the chassis harness. And the cost of a proper crimper. Unless you just *cut* the stock wiring harness....

If you are trying to come up with a way to eliminate the stock chassis harness and wiring, then just state: "Rip that **** out and rewire it!" Easy to say, easy to do.

I *hate* hacked up cars. I personally don't think the world needs another S5 Vert with a hacked up wiring harness.

Please don't try to do a thread to 'teach people another way' when you haven't figured up from down or sic 'em from c'mere. I know how to do this and am having difficulty following what you have done, what you are doing and what you hope to accomplish.

I can see future searchers finding your thread and getting completely confused.

Sorry to unload on you, you seem to be a nice guy. I'm out of here.