S4 motor going into a s5 chassis. Help!!
09-23-22, 01:19 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
S4 motor going into a s5 chassis. Help!!
So heres my situation, Ive got a s4 NA 13b in a s5 chassis (just nothing is connected besides the drivetrain). The motor has the s4 engine harness attached to it and the chassis has the s5 body harness on it. Ive heard that some things on the s4 motor have to be converted to the s5 stuff like mechanical to electronic. Would i have to do that? The chassis also has a standalone on it. So would i be able to just get it tuned properly for it to work? Also If i do a emissions delete would that help?
Please let me know, thank you!
Please let me know, thank you!
Last edited by Shnuzi; 09-23-22 at 08:04 PM.
09-25-22, 07:31 PM
#4
Depends on what standalone ems it is…
Can you please tell us what stand-alone you’re using? I promise I’m not trying to be rude.
some standalones like the apexi power fc require a patch harness since it’s probably a fd3s power fc, but the patch harness from banzai either adapt to s4 engine harness & s4 chassis harness or s5 engine harness & s5 chassis harness. Rewiring is doable not easy plug and play.
Most other standalones require a custom engine harness so you’d ditch your engine harness for the standalone engine harness anyways then just connect what’s needed from the chassis harness.
without knowing what you have, we’re guessing, throwing out minutes of typing theoreticals, etc.
its best to provide all information to remove ambiguity to get the fastest and correct answers.
Can you please tell us what stand-alone you’re using? I promise I’m not trying to be rude.
some standalones like the apexi power fc require a patch harness since it’s probably a fd3s power fc, but the patch harness from banzai either adapt to s4 engine harness & s4 chassis harness or s5 engine harness & s5 chassis harness. Rewiring is doable not easy plug and play.
Most other standalones require a custom engine harness so you’d ditch your engine harness for the standalone engine harness anyways then just connect what’s needed from the chassis harness.
without knowing what you have, we’re guessing, throwing out minutes of typing theoreticals, etc.
its best to provide all information to remove ambiguity to get the fastest and correct answers.
The following users liked this post:
Shnuzi (09-26-22)
09-26-22, 12:20 AM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Depends on what standalone ems it is…
Can you please tell us what stand-alone you’re using? I promise I’m not trying to be rude.
some standalones like the apexi power fc require a patch harness since it’s probably a fd3s power fc, but the patch harness from banzai either adapt to s4 engine harness & s4 chassis harness or s5 engine harness & s5 chassis harness. Rewiring is doable not easy plug and play.
Most other standalones require a custom engine harness so you’d ditch your engine harness for the standalone engine harness anyways then just connect what’s needed from the chassis harness.
without knowing what you have, we’re guessing, throwing out minutes of typing theoreticals, etc.
its best to provide all information to remove ambiguity to get the fastest and correct answers.
Can you please tell us what stand-alone you’re using? I promise I’m not trying to be rude.
some standalones like the apexi power fc require a patch harness since it’s probably a fd3s power fc, but the patch harness from banzai either adapt to s4 engine harness & s4 chassis harness or s5 engine harness & s5 chassis harness. Rewiring is doable not easy plug and play.
Most other standalones require a custom engine harness so you’d ditch your engine harness for the standalone engine harness anyways then just connect what’s needed from the chassis harness.
without knowing what you have, we’re guessing, throwing out minutes of typing theoreticals, etc.
its best to provide all information to remove ambiguity to get the fastest and correct answers.
09-26-22, 01:47 PM
#6
For the best information, you should search for other threads I’ve commented on about this.
if the car is s5, and the engine is s4, you’re better off using s5 engine electronics (s5 tps, s5 throttle body, s5 omp (which will also make you run s5 front cover to mount the omp unless you are going to premix and zip tie the omp off remotely slmewhere), s5 maf, s5 boost pressure sensor (map sensor), I think also the fuel injector resistor which is probably mounted on your chassis. S5 uses high impedance fuel injectors, early s4’s came with low impedance so you’d have to add inline resistors, but you’re fine if it’s late s4. I believe 5th/6th port actuators are actuated differently, not sure if you can retain the s4 ones.
and yes you can delete emissions either way.
I’ve also seen threads here where people have wired up s5 engine to s4 car but it wasn’t an easy job.
and just remember there is a difference in compression between s4 and s5. So you’ll be running more conservative timing using a s5 ecu. Plus trailing spark plug holes are at different locations which results in different split timing.
path of least resistance would be to use s5 electronics but used part prices may not make that a viable option anymore.
still haven’t listed what standalone you have which make it a better solution.
if the car is s5, and the engine is s4, you’re better off using s5 engine electronics (s5 tps, s5 throttle body, s5 omp (which will also make you run s5 front cover to mount the omp unless you are going to premix and zip tie the omp off remotely slmewhere), s5 maf, s5 boost pressure sensor (map sensor), I think also the fuel injector resistor which is probably mounted on your chassis. S5 uses high impedance fuel injectors, early s4’s came with low impedance so you’d have to add inline resistors, but you’re fine if it’s late s4. I believe 5th/6th port actuators are actuated differently, not sure if you can retain the s4 ones.
and yes you can delete emissions either way.
I’ve also seen threads here where people have wired up s5 engine to s4 car but it wasn’t an easy job.
and just remember there is a difference in compression between s4 and s5. So you’ll be running more conservative timing using a s5 ecu. Plus trailing spark plug holes are at different locations which results in different split timing.
path of least resistance would be to use s5 electronics but used part prices may not make that a viable option anymore.
still haven’t listed what standalone you have which make it a better solution.
Last edited by DR_Knight; 09-26-22 at 02:31 PM.
The following users liked this post:
WondrousBread (09-26-22)
09-26-22, 09:09 PM
#7
Rotary Freak
Like DR_Knight says, path of least resistance is to swap to all the S5 electronics (if you have access to them).
Alternatively, if you have the standalone, just run that and then the only wiring you need to do is the standalone harness (or adapting your s4 harness to the standalone harness, in the event you want to reuse it). It's hard to answer properly though without knowing what standalone you have, which is why DR_Knight asked you.
The most complicated way is to use the S4 engine with all it's electronics, S4 engine harness, and S4 ECU. Then you need to de-pin the connector that connects between the engine harness and body harness, and use the S4 and S5 service manuals to figure out which pin goes where. Then re-pin it so they match. I think there are two or three such connectors behind the kick-panel, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure that the same connectors are used between both series, so you may even need to hunt for the connector. And all that just so you can run the stock ECU, when it seems you already have a standalone.
I would not recommend doing the above unless there is some particular reason you want the stock ECU. There are many wires at the ecu harness to body harness connection (the ignition connections, the starter wire for the ECU, the pin from the AC relay that needs 12V or else the ECU locks timing, the power connections, etc) that are absolutely necessary for this to work. The wiring positions don't match, and I don't think even the wiring colours match. It is a major pain to do it that way.
The best way is probably just to use the standalone (again, depending on which you have).
Alternatively, if you have the standalone, just run that and then the only wiring you need to do is the standalone harness (or adapting your s4 harness to the standalone harness, in the event you want to reuse it). It's hard to answer properly though without knowing what standalone you have, which is why DR_Knight asked you.
The most complicated way is to use the S4 engine with all it's electronics, S4 engine harness, and S4 ECU. Then you need to de-pin the connector that connects between the engine harness and body harness, and use the S4 and S5 service manuals to figure out which pin goes where. Then re-pin it so they match. I think there are two or three such connectors behind the kick-panel, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure that the same connectors are used between both series, so you may even need to hunt for the connector. And all that just so you can run the stock ECU, when it seems you already have a standalone.
I would not recommend doing the above unless there is some particular reason you want the stock ECU. There are many wires at the ecu harness to body harness connection (the ignition connections, the starter wire for the ECU, the pin from the AC relay that needs 12V or else the ECU locks timing, the power connections, etc) that are absolutely necessary for this to work. The wiring positions don't match, and I don't think even the wiring colours match. It is a major pain to do it that way.
The best way is probably just to use the standalone (again, depending on which you have).
Trending Topics
09-29-22, 11:22 PM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
For the best information, you should search for other threads I’ve commented on about this.
if the car is s5, and the engine is s4, you’re better off using s5 engine electronics (s5 tps, s5 throttle body, s5 omp (which will also make you run s5 front cover to mount the omp unless you are going to premix and zip tie the omp off remotely slmewhere), s5 maf, s5 boost pressure sensor (map sensor), I think also the fuel injector resistor which is probably mounted on your chassis. S5 uses high impedance fuel injectors, early s4’s came with low impedance so you’d have to add inline resistors, but you’re fine if it’s late s4. I believe 5th/6th port actuators are actuated differently, not sure if you can retain the s4 ones.
and yes you can delete emissions either way.
I’ve also seen threads here where people have wired up s5 engine to s4 car but it wasn’t an easy job.
and just remember there is a difference in compression between s4 and s5. So you’ll be running more conservative timing using a s5 ecu. Plus trailing spark plug holes are at different locations which results in different split timing.
path of least resistance would be to use s5 electronics but used part prices may not make that a viable option anymore.
still haven’t listed what standalone you have which make it a better solution.
if the car is s5, and the engine is s4, you’re better off using s5 engine electronics (s5 tps, s5 throttle body, s5 omp (which will also make you run s5 front cover to mount the omp unless you are going to premix and zip tie the omp off remotely slmewhere), s5 maf, s5 boost pressure sensor (map sensor), I think also the fuel injector resistor which is probably mounted on your chassis. S5 uses high impedance fuel injectors, early s4’s came with low impedance so you’d have to add inline resistors, but you’re fine if it’s late s4. I believe 5th/6th port actuators are actuated differently, not sure if you can retain the s4 ones.
and yes you can delete emissions either way.
I’ve also seen threads here where people have wired up s5 engine to s4 car but it wasn’t an easy job.
and just remember there is a difference in compression between s4 and s5. So you’ll be running more conservative timing using a s5 ecu. Plus trailing spark plug holes are at different locations which results in different split timing.
path of least resistance would be to use s5 electronics but used part prices may not make that a viable option anymore.
still haven’t listed what standalone you have which make it a better solution.
please let me know!
09-29-22, 11:25 PM
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Like DR_Knight says, path of least resistance is to swap to all the S5 electronics (if you have access to them).
Alternatively, if you have the standalone, just run that and then the only wiring you need to do is the standalone harness (or adapting your s4 harness to the standalone harness, in the event you want to reuse it). It's hard to answer properly though without knowing what standalone you have, which is why DR_Knight asked you.
The most complicated way is to use the S4 engine with all it's electronics, S4 engine harness, and S4 ECU. Then you need to de-pin the connector that connects between the engine harness and body harness, and use the S4 and S5 service manuals to figure out which pin goes where. Then re-pin it so they match. I think there are two or three such connectors behind the kick-panel, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure that the same connectors are used between both series, so you may even need to hunt for the connector. And all that just so you can run the stock ECU, when it seems you already have a standalone.
I would not recommend doing the above unless there is some particular reason you want the stock ECU. There are many wires at the ecu harness to body harness connection (the ignition connections, the starter wire for the ECU, the pin from the AC relay that needs 12V or else the ECU locks timing, the power connections, etc) that are absolutely necessary for this to work. The wiring positions don't match, and I don't think even the wiring colours match. It is a major pain to do it that way.
The best way is probably just to use the standalone (again, depending on which you have).
Alternatively, if you have the standalone, just run that and then the only wiring you need to do is the standalone harness (or adapting your s4 harness to the standalone harness, in the event you want to reuse it). It's hard to answer properly though without knowing what standalone you have, which is why DR_Knight asked you.
The most complicated way is to use the S4 engine with all it's electronics, S4 engine harness, and S4 ECU. Then you need to de-pin the connector that connects between the engine harness and body harness, and use the S4 and S5 service manuals to figure out which pin goes where. Then re-pin it so they match. I think there are two or three such connectors behind the kick-panel, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure that the same connectors are used between both series, so you may even need to hunt for the connector. And all that just so you can run the stock ECU, when it seems you already have a standalone.
I would not recommend doing the above unless there is some particular reason you want the stock ECU. There are many wires at the ecu harness to body harness connection (the ignition connections, the starter wire for the ECU, the pin from the AC relay that needs 12V or else the ECU locks timing, the power connections, etc) that are absolutely necessary for this to work. The wiring positions don't match, and I don't think even the wiring colours match. It is a major pain to do it that way.
The best way is probably just to use the standalone (again, depending on which you have).
Facebook Post
10-01-22, 10:19 AM
#10
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,905
Received 2,647 Likes
on
1,874 Posts
so what you need depends on what you have, and we don't know what that is, you need to look. what ecu is it? what engine was in there last? was it an S5?
10-01-22, 04:25 PM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post