Gryffinwings

iTrader: (3)

Ok, I'm curious. What's the difference between the Rtek 2.0 and an actual Standalone EMS? What does a Standalone EMS have the the Rtek 2.0 doesn't have?

I can see that the Standalone EMS would have more options for fuel injectors, while the rtek has a few presets.

Rtek:
14 x 14 Fuel Correction Maps
21 x 19 Adjustable Timing Maps
Adjustable secondary staging RPM

Amongst other things.

How much better is a Standalone EMS?

Gurew

iTrader: (4)

go only standalone....there is no use in an rtek imo...

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

lots could be said here, but its all been said before. Logging is one of the chief advantages of an EMS, as in total control over the engine and what you need to run it.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

^ Rteks datalog too.

How about a fraction of the price, extremely easy to tune since the starting point is the stock maps, and it will allow you to pass smog tests in the land of overzealous emissions laws: CA?

Gurew

iTrader: (4)

define fraction of the price... you can pick up a haltech e6k for $500 if you look hard enough...

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Is that a used price? I'm sure you could find a used Rtek 2.x for $3-400. I think their new price is up to something like $470. And the price of a standalone does not include dyno and/or tuner costs you'll incur building the maps from scratch. It's just not nearly as ready to go out of the box, which means more time/money to get things right.

Gurew

iTrader: (4)

...rtek you still need to tune....which would include dyno time/tuner costs....lets face it dude....standalone is the way to go...not a chipped stock old *** ecu....

and you can find a haltech e6k full sensors for $500 if you wait/look around...i just sold one

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

You have LOT less to tune. And you ignored the most important part of my original reply: the OP lives in CA just like I do. Jumping through hoops every 2 years is how it works, and good luck running the emissions equipment with a haltech in there.

Gurew

iTrader: (4)

john ward

iTrader: (7)

A microtech may be so outdated it seems a monkey designed it, but the great part is a monkey could tune it too.

AmT_T

iTrader: (11)

I picked up an Rtek 2.0 for $270 used. I have yet to install it. I don't see whats so "Bad" about it. sure a full standalone has a more sensitive tuning ability and definitely has that Baller status. Imo is not needed unless you plan on going 350+hp. Rtek is perfect for mild to moderately modified 7's.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Ok- I did not think we would need to get into this again, but here we go-

RTEK is only as good as the original ECU, and since the S4 was not that good to begin with, your limited. The knock control, ignition and fuel accuracy, etc. are all lacking when compared to a good EMS.
Haltec IMHO sucks and I would not use it on a cheap go-kart, but thats MY opinion, others love them. AEM, MOTEC, these are where its at, cutting edge technology that works, and the AEM is affordable.
Now, one arguement thats often used for Haltec is that the stock harness sucks and should be replaced. This can be true, but not all cars suffer this and to me its just not worth adding in potential failure points if the OEM harness is in place and working. Again this is my point of view based on having dealt with the product over the years as well as watching the issues others have had.

A few more bits of information-
It is a lot easier (generically) to get a modified car through emissions using an EMS than trying to to use the stock ECU. I ummm know of OBD2 cars including Evos and STI's using AEM ecu's that sailed through emissions, they simply claimed thier OBD2 port had never worked right and it was $$ to fix it. In every case they testing center simply tested the car as if it were an OBD0 or 1 car and let it roll. Older cars are even easier, and I got a barely tuned MK3 Supra to FAST pass first try, so getting an FC to pass even Denvers **** dyno test is cake, esp with O2 feedback enabled

Yes, a standalone cost money, but they are not as expensive inthe long run as buying piece of crap after piece of crap until you finally get tired of jacking with the car and just putting one in. I have a customer right now with a Nissan who spent a fair chunk of money over the years installing an AFC, then some other POS piggyback, a 'chipped' ECU, until finally he put the AEM in, and all is well with the world. My advice if your modding a car, think about your goals and if the end point is pretty high, the first money spent, before anything else- before turbo, fuel system, intercooler or exhaust- before anything, needs to be the EMS thats going to run it all. Its just the smart thing to do, and smart money spent.

Gryffinwings

iTrader: (3)

Unfortunately, the Series 4 does not have support with the AEM EMS, I've looked there is no patch harness, so all the wiring would have to be soldered or crimped in or something. Not something that I'm particularly interested in doing, unless I had all the information I needed. Not to mention any base map the AEM has will most likely be for a turbo model, not an NA or Turbocharged NA engine. So in the end it's still going to cost a butt ton of money.

So it still hasn't been explained why the aftermarket EMS are better. What kind of specifications or capabilities make it better? Other than being newer.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

The biggest question is... what is the setup and the goals for the car?

Banzai Racing Power FC harness will work.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Also, Rich at Autosport Wiring will make you virtually any wiring harness adaptor you want, and his pricing is right.

I actually do have basemaps for a 6-port for AEM. In fact I have basemaps for small block chevys, Audi 5-cylinders, Porsche 4 and 6 cylinders, and even the Dodge SRT8 motor, all using AEM.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

really?

because I've been doing research for EMS for my FC. Thinking of AEM or F-Con V-Pro.

Like D Walker said, I always think long term so I don't mind paying extra to get the best in the first place. At least Im sure I will be able to do it right.

So Banzai Racing sells the harness that will work with AEM. what about F-Con V-Pro? Anybody use that before ?

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

LOGGING- yes RTEK logs, but the speed and usefulness of the data is not in the same league. Inormation is everything, and you cannot tune a car without it.
RESOLUTION- Accuracy is the life of your engine when using EFI, if I need say anymore you need to sell your car and take up sailing.
FLEXIBILITY- I have cars running as Flex-Fuel cars, able to run pump gas or e-85 without changing maps etc. Most EMS's will be able to control boost, have outputs to control other things like fans, water injection, nitrous, traction control, etc. The ability to use any sensor opens up commonly available and less expensive sensors. I could go on-
TOTAL CONTROL- AEM gives you actual knock control, boost cut, built-in two steps that are able to be tailored to your engines needs, full control over the idle, warmup, etc.

I can go on, but I hope the point is made. Hell go to aempower.com, pop over to the AEM forums and download the AEMPRO (not TUNER) software and poke around.

Gurew

iTrader: (4)

aems are garbage....motec is the best but at a $5000+ price tag...i doubt anyone here can really afford to have a motec and unlock some of the tuning features...

haltech e6k is pretty much entry level....the p1000/p2000 arent nearly as good as the motec systems but they do rip alot of their stuff off and are fairly nice...motec then haltech....those are the only ecu's i would use in any of my cars....rtek...aem...microtech...why even waste your time

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

My understanding is only specific HKS dealers (that have paid an assload of money) can do much more tha a basic tune the F-Con. This might have changed, but even though I can sell them I never do, and I generically do not recommend them when they come up used.

Also, I know Banzai has a harness for the PFC into the S5 and it works. Not sure for an S4, BUT I know Rich at Autosport wiring can make you one, or I can make you one if I was motivated enough.

Nice thing about the AEM is that it does not really care as much as the PFC about some of the OEM inputs, so it may or may not be slightly easier to get up and running.

Cheers,
Don

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I have a Banzai series 4 harness Power FC harness on my personal car right now. I have thought about switching from PFC to AEM but the car runs fine right now and I have higher priorities for the car. PM Banzai Racing about it, they can tell you more.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

yea, bad thing about F-Con is that it has to be tune by HKS Pro dealers. There was a "leaked/hacked" version of their Tunner software leaked a while ago. but then HKS updated their F-Con again to block the hacked version from reading.

instead of F-Con V-Pro, I also wonder if F-Con iS would work with S5.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

AEM smokes the Haltec onto the dirt in software, ease of use, features, and reliability

But then I am biased, I have over a dozen of them inthe shop at any given time, and have used them on everything from DD DSM's to single seat hillclimb cars. Funny thing- we have a good friend who had a Honda powered Wells Coyote Hillclimb car- pretty racey engine- big ITB's, bigger cams, the whole bit, and it had some whack ECU controlling it. The ECU failed, so I put an AEM Universal EMS in it. It was literally the most reliable ECU among the hillclim racers. Never once gave any issues despite the fact he ran a total loss electrical system, started onthe button every single time no matter what the weather and never once hiccupped. No other ecu was as reliable, including Haltec, Autronic, and Electromotive.

Haltec is pure crap IMHO, with possibly the worst tech support. Yes, the product is better now, the software is getting better, and so far they have been OK reliable, but it still buggy and crap and I wouldn't put it on a go-kart. But hey thats just me
Oh and I do have them in the shop from time to time, and I do tune them fairly well, I just do not like them and think they are more trouble than they are worth.

Cheers,
Don

arghx

iTrader: (3)

going back to my previous point about the OP's car: if it's just going to have some bolt on BNR turbo, looking for high 200s low 300s to the wheels, the Rtek makes more sense. It's far less money and trouble than all the other options.

If you have a naturally aspirated street car I DO NOT recommend a standalone. You simply cannot justify the cost in time and money. And trust me, if it ain't costing you much money it's going to cost you a lot of time (Megasquirt etc). Rtek 2.1 is perfect, especially if you have an s5 because you can delete the OMP without limp mode, control aux ports and VDI, adjust cranking fuel to fix flooding problems, etc. I wish it had been available when I had a nonturbo.

Gurew

iTrader: (4)

all i have to say is...you are full of ****....and extremely biased...you think haltech tech support is bad...try giving motec support a call bet you dont even get to talk to anyone....and they are literally the best of the best...

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

We have had an S4 adapter for nearly as long as the S5 (many years) http://banzai-racing.com/store/S4_PFC_adapter.html

Yes, it can be used to install the FD AEM EMS. There are people already using it.