silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

With motor still In my N/A, I want to replace the Oil Thermo Pellet with a dummy Pellet from Mazdatrix. I have had low oil pressure for sometime and think this Is the problem. So I ask, by replacing the pellet will oil come spurting out of the e-shaft. I had just changed my oil today and can't be bothered to drain oil and replace pellet.

Moxeys93RX7

you need to tear the motor apart to replace the pellet. it is a little more involved than just changing the oil

Silkworm

Huh? It's simple. You wedge the clutch in to keep bearing from falling out, you pull off the pulley, remove the center bolt, and pull out the pellet..

Unless I"m totally missing something, that's hardly disassembling your engine. PITA tho

To answer the specific question, to be safe, do this after letting the engine cool down, but no, I don't think you'll have a flood of oil coming out of the hole. The pellet is well above the oil level of the pan.

PaulC

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

Even I knew that you don't have to tear the motor apart to replace this. I heard It Is a bitch to get out though.

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

Iam convinced this Is why I am getting low readings. I replaced the oil pressure sender unit and change my oil religously. I guess you would have to put blue locktite again when Installing the bolt?

FPrep2ndGenRX7

www.atkinsrotary.com has a good write-up on that.

Samps

You better have a good set of tools to remove that main pully nut. I think the best method out there is to use a breaker bar with a piece of pipe attached to the handle. You will need to lay the bar down on the rail near the battery, on the drivers side of the vehicle. Then bump the starter for a second. This should be enough to loosen up the nut. You could probably also spray on some penetrating oil too, but be sure to clean it up good afterwards. Once you get the pulley off, most likely the pellet thingy will shoot out; mine did. So gather up the pellet thing and the spring and go about your business. I didn't replace the pellet so don't ask me how.

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

To be exact the url is http://www.atkinsrotary.com/thermandirect.htm

Jimmy325i

If you only take the bolt out, you can leave the pulleys in place and there is no risk of slipping the bearing out.

Without doing that horseshit method of wedging the breaker bar on the frame rail and cranking the starter...

You take a chain-clamp visegrip plier (with a heavy rubber cushion to protect the groove. I used a truck tire inner tube) on one of the pulley grooves and get it to fully "grip" the pulley, then using the handle of that plier against the water pump pulley (preventing rotation) you "gently" <yeah right!> pull on the 18" handle wrench of your choice and the bolt will come loose.

No air tools, no crazy uncontrolled forces on your chasis and engine, no difficulty what so ever in doing this mod!

Just my $.02

Samps

horseshit method huh?

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

last night i used an impact wrench, but the engine starter sounds like the best method. Its a pretty simple operation.

Fingers

What if your breaker bar is cheap, breaks, and sends bits and peices flying at high velocity at your rad? That's why the breaker bar method is not very good, along with the fact that you're moving the shaft, which in turn MIGHT knock that bearing loose. Use an impact wrench. If you don't have one, bring it down to a service station and pay the guy $5 to remove it. Money well spent. Shim the pellet, finger tighten the e-shaft and drive it home (no fan, so make it quick)

deadRX7Conv

I never have had any breaker bars break. They usually just fall off if not on tight. As long as the clutch stays down to the floor during the entire procedure, there shouldn't be any bearing issues. This method can also be used to remove stuck lug nuts(roll car with breaker bar) ...etc. I also found out that a cheap electric impact wrench is capable of knocking strut bolt/nuts, wheelnuts, axle spindle nuts, bearing nuts...... They are weak but will take almost anything off in a couple of minutes. I have the Sears version. I haven't used it on the eccentric shaft bolt yet.

The links to the shim/pellet are broken. If anybody knows anyone with a copy or if they know the site owner, please contact them.

http://k2rd.freeservers.com/FC3S/OTBP/otbp.html
http://rx7.freeservers.com/repairhb/oil.htm

Here's a link on the horseshit method
http://home.earthlink.net/~burntoast/powerpulley.html

Icemark

On a series 4 motor the other thing you have to look at is the front cover O-ring, which can blow out/ blow by with age.

If the thermo pellet has failed you typically wont get oil pressure past 30-40 lbs at anytime. What pressures are you seeing?

tesla042

I used a ***** of an impact wrench... 600 lb*ft in reverse.. took it off like NOTHING.. In fact, took it off TOO fast, and backed the wrench into my radiator a little.. Got me a nice lil dent in a few fins now..

I did this operation after my car had been sitting for....maybe an hour.. Apparantly it was still warm enough for the thermo pellet to still be extented.. This means that it was NOT defective for me. I shimmed it anyway, and my oil pressure is STILL a bit low..

I heard that if the front cover o-ring goes, your pressure is *REAL* low... and drops after you rev past a certain point... is this true? Mine is great when cold, but when it warms up, drops to ~15... I get ~45psi at 3k rpm when warm, ~65 at 3k rpm when cold.

-Tesla

Fingers

Hey tesla, i have the EXACT same issue as you. Word for word. one of these days, i'll take the front cover off... but i just don't have the time

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

Called my mechanic. Told him I am passing by tomorrow. He will air impact it of to replace the plug , put some locktite on air impact It on - done! Although the breaker bar method may work It looks to much of a hack job for me. The consequenses are severe, If any, that may go wrong. No offense to anyone who has done this procedure before.

RETed

That's mines - I've stripped the site and moved everything to http://fc3s-pro.com/
I've stripped it cause there were people out there linking to my site without showing proper credit.&nbsp Freeservers is an *** about spam mail, so I've discontinued use of them.

-Ted

HAILERS

TESLA042..........Are you getting these readings from the stock gauge???? If you are, you are making an error. Get a aftermarket gauge down at PepBoys like a SunPro that cost twenty bucks give or take. Patch it into your car and get a valid reading of your oil pressure. Those gauges are sold with a variety of fittings and one will fit you oil pressure sensor port. And by the way I AM NOT A HACK! I use the breaker bar method if I'm leaving the engine in the car and want to remove the front pulley bolt. mild humor.

Icemark

I would bet the front cover O-ring.

When It went out on my old 87 Sport that is exactly what it did as far as pressure. Idle was 15 PSI when warm, cold it was better and around 45 PSI when warm and above 2500 RPM. But always about 15 PSI low when warm.

Someone may call me wrong, and it might be something else, but that was exactly what happened on my sport and fixing it with a new 0-ring and some silicon worked perfect.

Ted might know for sure, but as I recall the o-ring there doesn't get major oil until warmed if the thermo-pelt is working right.

tesla042

So, an aftermarket ELECTRIC oil pressure guage will accept the signal from the stock oil pressure sender? Cool! I was afraid that they wouldn't be the same!

Or....when you say "...sold with a variety of fittings and one will fit your oil pressure sensor port..", you mean it comes with a new sender and I cram that one in the block?

-Tesla

Jimmy325i

As a former CH-47 Chinook tech in the Army, and someone with over 15 years wrenching under his belt. I can say that the starter method is in fact horseshit. Anytime you decide to wedge some tool against a frame rail and then use a very strong/quick turning non-precision motor to break a bolt loose, you are endangering anyone around you and your vehicle.

I've come up with an easy and safe method that costs next to nothing to implement. (if you have enough tools, this is free) A wrench breaking is unlikely, but that socket slipping off is probable and not my idea of an ideal situation.

RETed

I'll see your horseshit, and I'll raise you some dog ****...
I use this breaker bar method ALL the time.
The only time it "failed" is when I used a 3/8"-drive ratchet which promptly broke the drive mechanism in half - thak god for Sears Craftsman; it was a Craftsman Pro ratchet!&nbsp I've since used only 1/2"-drive tools, and it has always worked.&nbsp I ALWAYS put the hood down to keep potential flying tools/parts to a minimum.

This method doesn't require air tools - air tools and air compressors is not something everyone has.&nbsp Even "heavy duty" impact guns up to 400lb/ft were not enough to budge that bolt due to the liberal use of thread locker.&nbsp This method does not require you to pull the fan shroud either, if you don't want to.&nbsp It's the QUICKEST method I have found so far, and I bet it'll beat whatever your "safe method" you have (which you have no conveniently not explicitly mentioned).&nbsp 19mm socket, 1/2"-drive min breaker bar or ratchet, and your engine starter - that's about as minimal amount of tools you can get; 5 minutes to set everything up, and tap the starter - I bet I can get the bolt loosened in under 5 minutes this way...

I've been doing this since 1995 on FC's.&nbsp What's your experience with the FC's?&nbsp I don't exactly call Army mechanics on helicopters directly appliable in this case...


-Ted

HAILERS

Tesla.....I meant a mechanical one. I've done it several ways. I took the banjo bolt from the oil line and drilled a hole and threaded it, attached the oil gauge line to it and put the banjo bolt back in the rear housing......I've use the Racing BEat adapter that mounts below the oil filter housing. It has a oil filter and oil temp port on it to screw the aftermarket gauge hose into. ......Then one day I found out that the fitting that I had screwed into the banjo bolt rig mentioned above, would fit the hole for the stock sending unit. I've never left the aftermarket unit on for more than a month. I get the realtionship b/t the aftermarket gauge and the reading on the stock gauge imbedded in my mind, and remove the aftermarket gauge. By then I have a good idea what the real pressure is when looking at the stock gauge. I've also taken the stock sender unit off, taken it apart, and adjusted the CAM inside it to match the aftermarket readings, then dumped the aftermarket gauge into the dust bin. No, I don't trust the stock unit on any of my cars.

HAILERS

And some more.....first I'm not a knuckle dragging helicopter mechanic, thank goodness. humor, not malicious remark. Number two, about what IceMark says about the front cover 0'ring. The first 13B engine I overhauled (I hope I used a breakerbar resting against the engine to loosen the front pulley bolt, just don't remember), I could not make any sense of the front cover gasket and its oring and teflon ring. Sure enough I put the thing together and sure enough, even reading an aftermarket gauge, I had low oil pressure. By pure accident I read the Mazdatrix FAQ, and figured out what had happened. The O'ring and the gasket were blown out. The reason was that the Mazda overhaul gasket set did not match my model front housing boss or front cover. I took Mazdatrix advice and used no front cover gasket, just some rtv(don't cover up the approx .030 hole in the front cover, it feeds the metering oil pump) on the front cover and let it sit. Great oil pressure now. Frankly though, if the engines been running for several tens of thousands of miles, I doubt that the 0ring or gasket around it is bad. Just a hunch. Don't know for sure.